Bald Cyprus root twist

[rockm]

I've considered this exact possibility. I've thought about pushing the 'base' of the tree down to expose the full corkscrew and let the root run off to the side before spreading, and will definitely consider it further before taking any decisions. (That's actually become one of my favorite parts of developing bonsai: that almost nothing requires an immediate decision.)

It WOULD look scraggly and unique, and as I don't intend to ever show my trees formally, who really cares, right?

I enjoy this site for so many reasons, chiefly the absolute mountain of knowledge held by the users, but seeing the different ways we choose to develop our trees is high on the list, too.

Don't make mistake ugly for "good," or weird unworkable for "quirky."

In the end, It WILL be scraggly and ugly and ultimately unsatisfying and will likely wind up in the dead pile.

You man not want to show it or whatever, but believe me, trees like this will bother you down the line. After almost 30 years, I learned that with more than one tree. They take up resources, time and money. Like overly-customized cars, you can't sell them because they're so weird and appeal to no one else (and that will likely include you if you keep at bonsai).

Look, I hate to be negative here, but the bottom line question is WHY would you want to waste time on it, instead of working on better material that can actually teach you something and become presentable? All things being equal, this tree is a waste of time.

No doubt, it will have instant defenders who call me names...I stand by the statement that ugly and weird is not really bonsai and not really attractive (there are exceptions, but those are mainly the province of people like Nick Lenz, and others who are already experienced in making bonsai for a while).

 

[skjohnson37]

Don't make mistake ugly for "good," or weird unworkable for "quirky."

In the end, It WILL be scraggly and ugly and ultimately unsatisfying and will likely wind up in the dead pile.

You man not want to show it or whatever, but believe me, trees like this will bother you down the line. After almost 30 years, I learned that with more than one tree. They take up resources, time and money. Like overly-customized cars, you can't sell them because they're so weird and appeal to no one else (and that will likely include you if you keep at bonsai).

Look, I hate to be negative here, but the bottom line question is WHY would you want to waste time on it, instead of working on better material that can actually teach you something and become presentable? All things being equal, this tree is a waste of time.

No doubt, it will have instant defenders who call me names...I stand by the statement that ugly and weird is not really bonsai and not really attractive (there are exceptions, but those are mainly the province of people like Nick Lenz, and others who are already experienced in making bonsai for a while).

And this is the other argument.

I'm not sure what I'll do with it, but have plenty of time to decide.

 

[Maiden69]

If you straighten it up a little and let it grow it will be something unique... it is up to you, no one else to decide the way you go. I decided to give my trees some movement after seeing this thread.

Shohin bald cypress...

This sweet package arrived today. Even happier with it in person. So much detail is hidden and not seen in 2D. Never did I realize I could have one this far north thinking it was a southern swamp tree only. As a conifer lover...this is just a sweet find.

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Joe Dupre']

Don't make mistake ugly for "good," or weird unworkable for "quirky."

In the end, It WILL be scraggly and ugly and ultimately unsatisfying and will likely wind up in the dead pile.

You man not want to show it or whatever, but believe me, trees like this will bother you down the line. After almost 30 years, I learned that with more than one tree. They take up resources, time and money. Like overly-customized cars, you can't sell them because they're so weird and appeal to no one else (and that will likely include you if you keep at bonsai).

Look, I hate to be negative here, but the bottom line question is WHY would you want to waste time on it, instead of working on better material that can actually teach you something and become presentable? All things being equal, this tree is a waste of time.

No doubt, it will have instant defenders who call me names...I stand by the statement that ugly and weird is not really bonsai and not really attractive (there are exceptions, but those are mainly the province of people like Nick Lenz, and others who are already experienced in making bonsai for a while).

I agree if your sole purpose of bonsai is to make something aesthetically pleasing to the masses. If you want a tree that pleases YOU, there are no boundaries. I absolutely detest "perfection" in any endeavor, because perfection is in the eye of the beholder. If you have to have a perfect bonsai, then , in my mind, you are not doing art.........you are doing craft. Not to diminish craft in any way, but art is the expression of the artist..........and that can be good or bad.

 

[Cajunrider]

I'll probably be in the minority, but I would celebrate the uniqueness of what nature put into that tree. I would expose as much of that gnarly root as possible. Will it be a "traditional" bonsai? No. Will it conform to the "rules"? No. Will it tell a story that the viewer will have to fill in, in his own mind? Definitely. There will be other trees and other bald cypresses in your life that can conform to the norms. I'll bet this tree will always have a soft spot in your heart.

If the tree is older with that twisted root then I would agree. However this is a seedling. By the time it gets big. All we get out of it will be a hopeless knot. I have tried that multiple times. Each time the roots would grow large and the twists merged, giving me an unsightly lump.

 

[Maiden69]

Also, don't pot this in anything smaller that a 1 gal container. I did that mistake with the trees on my pic above, and I have one of them with huge twisted roots that I plan on air layering unless I can work with them coming repot time this coming spring. The wider the pot, the better the spread, the less circling roots you are going to have to deal with on repot time.

 

[rockm]

I agree if your sole purpose of bonsai is to make something aesthetically pleasing to the masses. If you want a tree that pleases YOU, there are no boundaries. I absolutely detest "perfection" in any endeavor, because perfection is in the eye of the beholder. If you have to have a perfect bonsai, then , in my mind, you are not doing art.........you are doing craft. Not to diminish craft in any way, but art is the expression of the artist..........and that can be good or bad.

I don't have perfect trees. I don't aspire to perfect trees. I've entered one show over the last 30 years, so I'm not aiming for the masses...All, or most all, of my trees, are collected natives. They have quirks galore, however, there is a difference between quirks and plug ugly. Aspiring for plug ugly as an end game for a tree is as much of a folly as expecting perfection. The old saying "is the juice worth the squeeze?" applies. If the end result is less than meh, it's not worth the effort.

 

[rockm]

If you straighten it up a little and let it grow it will be something unique... it is up to you, no one else to decide the way you go. I decided to give my trees some movement after seeing this thread.

Shohin bald cypress...

This sweet package arrived today. Even happier with it in person. So much detail is hidden and not seen in 2D. Never did I realize I could have one this far north thinking it was a southern swamp tree only. As a conifer lover...this is just a sweet find.

www.bonsainut.com

That tree is a product of a trunk chop. The roots are pretty much fine...That tree didn't start out as knotted roots...

 

[Maiden69]

That tree is a product of a trunk chop. The roots are pretty much fine...That tree didn't start out as knotted roots...

If the OP does what I said about wiring and straightening this seedling he could accomplish the same structure in a slightly bigger tree. I could have chopped either one if mine last year mid season and attain the same look. BC seedlings are as easy to maneuver as JBP seedlings on their first year. Also, the roots start after all the twisted area, easy to work with. Now, if all the roots were coming from the twisted area, then it would be a different story and I would say to sacrifice it to the bonsai gods.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I don't have perfect trees. I don't aspire to perfect trees. I've entered one show over the last 30 years, so I'm not aiming for the masses...All, or most all, of my trees, are collected natives. They have quirks galore, however, there is a difference between quirks and plug ugly. Aspiring for plug ugly as an end game for a tree is as much of a folly as expecting perfection. The old saying "is the juice worth the squeeze?" applies. If the end result is less than meh, it's not worth the effort.

There again, opinions as to what is good, bad or ugly. You most definitely have the right to make that call, on your trees or anyone else's. But the fact remains that the one growing the tree has the final say-so. As our Walter Pall once said, "You can impress with beauty, but you can also impress with ugly.". I'd say, going for ugly and you stick the landing is better than going for beauty and you miss it with "meh".' But that's my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Cajunrider]

There again, opinions as to what is good, bad or ugly. You most definitely have the right to make that call, on your trees or anyone else's. But the fact remains that the one growing the tree has the final say-so. As our Walter Pall once said, "You can impress with beauty, but you can also impress with ugly.". I'd say, going for ugly and you stick the landing is better than going for beauty and you miss it with "meh".' But that's my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Joe,
Check out the Vietnamese bonsai and search for this term "bonsai quái", you would love all the "going for ugly and sticking the landing".
Warning: There will be some really weird ones.

 

[rockm]

There again, opinions as to what is good, bad or ugly. You most definitely have the right to make that call, on your trees or anyone else's. But the fact remains that the one growing the tree has the final say-so. As our Walter Pall once said, "You can impress with beauty, but you can also impress with ugly.". I'd say, going for ugly and you stick the landing is better than going for beauty and you miss it with "meh".' But that's my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

There is a pretty large gap between this seedling and what Walter Pall is referencing. But, yes, this is all relative and subjective.

 

[skjohnson37]

I did not at all expect this to turn into a 9mm vs .45, Ginger vs. Mary Ann, longbows vs. crossbows conversation, but here we are...

 

[Cajunrider]

I did not at all expect this to turn into a 9mm vs .45, Ginger vs. Mary Ann, longbows vs. crossbows conversation, but here we are...

It’s all good.

 

[rockm]

I did not at all expect this to turn into a 9mm vs .45, Ginger vs. Mary Ann, longbows vs. crossbows conversation, but here we are...

Nah. It's more like this :

 

[Joe Dupre']

There is a pretty large gap between this seedling and what Walter Pall is referencing. But, yes, this is all relative and subjective.

Yes, there is a big gap. There's a big gap also between this seedling and a finished bonsai. Just imagine this tree sometime in the future with a 3" gnarly trunk. If I found THAT in a nursery, I'd buy it on the spot.

 

[Beanwagon]

I like the root twist and would try and turn it into a feature.

If this was mine I would sit it in a massive tub of soil and water with no drainage holes and grow it out for years. Then cut super low and expose the root twist. Make something diferent/unique.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Just a little encouragement. Live oak that I grew from an acorn.

 

[BonsaiPoppie]

Just a little encouragement. Live oak that I grew from an acorn.

View attachment 446685

Had short arms, but still badass.

 

[Birchbark]

I'm honestly not even sure what to call this, nevermind what to do with it. I picked this guy up at a local nursery today because I was interested in the twin trunk effect (which I didn't see on any other BCs there, seedling or mature), but I'm not sure if I'll be able to do anything with the roots.

Thoughts from you expert types?

View attachment 446444View attachment 446445View attachment 446446View attachment 446447

I think it could be quite interesting! Imagine the twists as its knees sotting above the soil once the tree thickens and the bark gets nice and flakey! What a base that would be!