Are you a Parrot?

[choppychoppy]

Amazing -------- when you reach this level of refinement,
how do you keep it from changing ? Falling apart ?

See man - this is the problem with almost everything you post. You are under so many FALSE ideas that you are unable to break away from.

1. This tree is at a level of refinement that you know nothing about. No tree you guys have ever produced looks anything like this - all of the stuff you show looks exactly the same - a small rounded young shrub clipped back in a bonsai pot from seed.

2. It is 100% possible to maintain this tree in this look for long term - years and years. This is where advanced techniques come into play. Large growth is replaced with smaller. This is possible because of defoliations and partial defoliations to set new buds deep in the interior. Selective feeding and diff feeds. And dozens of other time sensitive and tried and true techniques.

3. To even HINT that the work that went into this tree and the incredible work the goes into just maintaining the glory of this tree is or was a 'waste of time' is so disrespectful it is UNREAL.

4. I realize you have never thought a different way, but you have to understand that just because you do not know how to create or maintain this tree doesn't mean it can't and isn't done.

And this may not be a 'style' of tree that everyone likes but the work to produce and maintain it deserves respect regardless. Come on man!

 

[TN_Jim]

Looks like a Baltimore Bus Stop...
Just less trash and needles....and people standing sideways asleep...
And that broken bench is supposed to say..."the greatest city in the world".

I used to love taking pictures of those bus stops....the old ones said The City That Reads (which was a laugh-line even in it's time) and people scratched out Reads and wrote Bleeds.

Niiiice!...that about made me loose a drink of coffee

 

[Vance Wood]

Quote Nippon Bonsai ...''it entirely expresses the beauty and volume of a tree growing in a natural environment.''
You don't need to report to anyone.

Then don't but if you do expect feed back.

 

[Adair M]

See man - this is the problem with almost everything you post. You are under so many FALSE ideas that you are unable to break away from.

1. This tree is at a level of refinement that you know nothing about. No tree you guys have ever produced looks anything like this - all of the stuff you show looks exactly the same - a small rounded young shrub clipped back in a bonsai pot from seed.

2. It is 100% possible to maintain this tree in this look for long term - years and years. This is where advanced techniques come into play. Large growth is replaced with smaller. This is possible because of defoliations and partial defoliations to set new buds deep in the interior. Selective feeding and diff feeds. And dozens of other time sensitive and tried and true techniques.

3. To even HINT that the work that went into this tree and the incredible work the goes into just maintaining the glory of this tree is or was a 'waste of time' is so disrespectful it is UNREAL.

4. I realize you have never thought a different way, but you have to understand that just because you do not know how to create or maintain this tree doesn't mean it can't and isn't done.

And this may not be a 'style' of tree that everyone likes but the work to produce and maintain it deserves respect regardless. Come on man!

EXACTLY!!!! Being able to MAINTAIN bonsai is what bonsai is actually all about!

You see, when the ancient Chinese scholars first brought the naturally dwarfed trees down from the mountains, the trees didn’t stay dwarfed! At least the ones that lived didn’t. So they had to learn to keep them small or else they would lose there shape.

It’s because there is not a large supply of mature bonsai available that we place so much emphasis on creating new bonsai. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fun to create new bonsai! But there is also a lot of fun and satisfaction on maintaining and improving existing bonsai.

 

[Silentrunning]

I wonder if a few years in the future as we look back at this thread some of us will wish we had demonstrated a little less vitriol towards our fellow bonsaiers. This type of animosity really is odd. As a beginner I can tell you that one of the side effects of these attacks is for me not to ask questions or post pictures seeking advice. I know I will open myself up to ridicule and all the truly constructive criticism will be buried.

 

[Anthony]

And so Chopmeister, after all his talk showed his examples
matching the one shown above.
Visually proving his point.

Sifu,

as far as I know that is a zelkova, in your own words, you specialise
in pines.
And the Japanese do not sell, their best efforts in your words.
So how does that tree above look today?

Lots of yacking, come talk to me with 40 years of continuous growing
experience.

AND Sifu, you know we have nothing presently at the level of
that cultivar, you know because I was honest enough to tell you
so.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

@Silentrunning ,

water off of a duck's back.
You turn off the laptop and go back to reality.
It's not real.

And until someone shows you proof...................
Hang in there, with smiles
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

Oh, and as to my teasing Choppy,

please note my hat is off to him and his impressive work
in the J,B.pine seed contest.

Inspiring work thus far.
Hoping he will teach me more.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Jason]

Thread idea: Are you a jackass?

Where bnutters argue about who is the bigger jackass and why...

On second thought, maybe we don’t even need a new thread. Maybe Smoke can just edit this threads title.

 

[Adair M]

And so Chopmeister, after all his talk showed his examples
matching the one shown above.
Visually proving his point.

Sifu,

as far as I know that is a zelkova, in your own words, you specialise
in pines.
And the Japanese do not sell, their best efforts in your words.
So how does that tree above look today?

Lots of yacking, come talk to me with 40 years of continuous growing
experience.

AND Sifu, you know we have nothing presently at the level of
that cultivar, you know because I was honest enough to tell you
so.
Good Day
Anthony

A couple of my Zelkova:





Anothony, I specialize in pines. That does not mean I don’t have other species.

Anthony, it appears that you tend to make assumptions based upon what you know and see. I suppose that’s only natural. But I have been trying to tell you that there is more, far more, to bonsai than a 3 inch trunk and 6 branches!

You see, you don’t know that you don’t know! And until you realize that there are things you don’t know, you won’t learn.

I am reminded of a story Ryan Neil told about his early apprenticeship with Kimura. At first, Ryan was given menial tasks: weed pulling, washing the rags, sweeping up, etc. Nothing bonsai. Maybe watering. But he worked hard. So, Kimura would call him over, and have Ryan watch as he worked on a tree. And when he was done, he turned to Ryan and asked, “Do you think you could have done that?” And Ryan responded, “Yes, yes I think I can!” And Kimura would go, “No you can’t! You don’t know what all I was thinking why I did what I did!” And Ryan would be sent back to pulling weeds. This happened several times before Ryan finally responded with, “No, Master, teach me!”

And then the learning began!

 

[coh]

I am reminded of a story Ryan Neil told about his early apprenticeship with Kimura. At first, Ryan was given menial tasks: weed pulling, washing the rags, sweeping up, etc. Nothing bonsai. Maybe watering. But he worked hard. So, Kimura would call him over, and have Ryan watch as he worked on a tree. And when he was done, he turned to Ryan and asked, “Do you think you could have done that?” And Ryan responded, “Yes, yes I think I can!” And Kimura would go, “No you can’t! You don’t know what all I was thinking why I did what I did!” And Ryan would be sent back to pulling weeds. This happened several times before Ryan finally responded with, “No, Master, teach me!”

And then the learning began!

Now you've done it! Take cover, everyone!

 

[Adair M]

Now you've done it! Take cover, everyone!

Yeah, this thread hasn’t been getting many posts recently, I thought I’d “give it a repot” and see if it would start growing again! Lol!!!

 

[coh]

Yeah, this thread hasn’t been getting many posts recently, I thought I’d “give it a repot” and see if it would start growing again! Lol!!!

So you basically gave it a dose of superthrive! Good work.

 

[Anthony]

Hmm, Sifu,

and here I was getting ready to discuss fattening of fine shoots,
slowing down growth in relation to fine training, responses of
lower N fertiliser and inorganic soil [ porous to non-porous states.]
Ha ha - take win Sifu

Sorry Coh, you will have to look for entertainment elsewhere

Have a Good Day guys,
Anthony

In the growing trough, 6 branches and gone for the 3 inch trunk.
Maybe might be able to add on even more branchlets.

 

[choppychoppy]

And so Chopmeister, after all his talk showed his examples
matching the one shown above.
Visually proving his point.

Sifu,

as far as I know that is a zelkova, in your own words, you specialise
in pines.
And the Japanese do not sell, their best efforts in your words.
So how does that tree above look today?

Lots of yacking, come talk to me with 40 years of continuous growing
experience.

AND Sifu, you know we have nothing presently at the level of
that cultivar, you know because I was honest enough to tell you
so.
Good Day
Anthony

So I personally am 44 and have not had the length of time to develop a tree my self for 40 yrs yet but I'm working on it. I do have a few from well before my time almost as old as I am as bonsai. One of which I have brought back to its original design and am now 'maintaining' it. This tree has not one chop mark from a field chop and not one wire scar. I would put this raintree up against almost any other I have ever seen in the us. Also my garden is halfway decent too. Pics taken 5 mins ago.

 

[Adair M]

So you basically gave it a dose of superthrive! Good work.

As if Superthrive actually does anything! Lol!!!

 

[choppychoppy]

And its very telling that this picture you posted - you obviously seem to think this is a 'good' bonsai. I see a 3 gal shrub that I comb through by the dozens to use to make a bonsai at my local landscape nursery. This tree would be used by me as an example of poor technical applications. The lower branches and main trunk (circled in black) have very poor pruning technique and have no taper, just short stumps with multiple branches coming from the ends. I don't see anything resembling proper ramification from the trunk out with descending sized branches from base to tip. The red marks show where the tree has been allowed to branch too much and become too dense shading out interior buds for the following seasons and weakening lower branches which are evident. These are things you are failing to see or understand about long term development and maintenance of an amazing tree.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Wonder what this looks like now - has it changed?
has it thickened too much ?
Is it as it was imaged a while ago ?

After so many years and time marches on, was it
worth it ?
Good Day
Anthony

Amazing -------- when you reach this level of refinement,
how do you keep it from changing ? Falling apart ?

It has to grow, thicken to live, and after it passes the
perfection, how do you feel ----------- wasted your time ?

View attachment 198873

I recognize that tree!

 

[Anthony]

@choppychoppy ,

thanks for the critique.

You do realise that it is an experimental, that Sifu has been
critiquing for I believe 2 years.
Hence his comments.

Plus remember a camera flattens an image.
You would need an overhead shot for your other comment to be
applicable.
And once again Sifu made the same comment, a while back.

The work is put up for critique and folk to learn.
Ask the others.

Wish we had flat land to do as you do.
BUT we would probably follow Wu Yee Sun for simpler
display.
Keep up the good work.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[choppychoppy]

@choppychoppy ,

thanks for the critique.

You do realise that it is an experimental, that Sifu has been
critiquing for I believe 2 years.
Hence his comments.

Plus remember a camera flattens an image.
You would need an overhead shot for your other comment to be
applicable.
And once again Sifu made the same comment, a while back.

The work is put up for critique and folk to learn.
Ask the others.

Wish we had flat land to do as you do.
BUT we would probably follow Wu Yee Sun for simpler
display.
Keep up the good work.
Good Day
Anthony

I mean I know I'm a bit abrubt in my comments or critiques but I thought that's what trees are up for but Look man your passive / aggressive attitude is really crap. I get that this is 'just how you are'. I personally don't care but If you think this tree is an experiment to help people how about developing it well? Is it an experiment in how to make a not so good bonsai? Even it was just a test species proper bonsai techniques should have been applied its whole life. That's how the BEST trees are made when they are controlled from the beginning. And my comments on the tree are applicable regardless of how many pictures YOU think I need for those comments to be correct. And I know just like above you didn't respond to what I said about the maintained tree YOU posted but will once again post some passive aggressive garbage with your ridiculous Good day. So just spare me and don't waste you're time. I'm the idiot for even starting any kind of conversation with you.