Another Mirai Tree Sale in a few days

[Shogun610]

and who says theres no money in bonsai hey.
just imagine, you probably could of got it for $300 or less if you did your homework. save up all the money you spent on sticks and buy something substantial

I don’t spend my money on sticks .. and I do buy substantial stock, and do my homework , thank you.

 

[BobbyLane]

I don’t spend my money on sticks .. and I do buy substantial stock, and do my homework , thank you.

I should of worded that differently. Im speaking in general terms really. It just goes to show, that a lot of material on mirai or rather stuff he works on, isnt out of reach or unattainable if you really want it. I guess thats the message ive been trying to get across with these posts.

 

[Maiden69]

That linden is in-ground grown. It was brought to Mirai in a 25 or 35 gallon container when removed from the ground according to Ryan. I think he said that he had it for 2-3 years now since acquired and moved into the blue pot. So, not your typical nursery grown tree as you can see by the branching and ramification. Below is a pic before the initial work was performed in the APR 2020 stream. Since then the tree has been worked twice, in fall 2020, and fall 2021.

There were 3 trees from that batch, @MACH5 Sergio has one of them, I know he won't say how much he paid for his, but he could give you a ballpark of what to expect.





I still can't understand why people b"complain"h so much about Ryan's prices, or any other bonsai artists. You are not paying for a tree dug out of the field, you are paying for 6 years of maintenance, including 3 - 2+ hours of detailed work done, documented in the videos for you to study when you decide to work on them.

This kind of trees is not something that a beginner wants to buy, unless he has the dough to leave it at Mirai or another reputable nursery to be taken care of. There will be plenty of people willing to pay the prices he posts if the tree appeal to them and they have the financial needs.

To put this in perspective, check the price of this tree when it becomes for sale, then go to wigerts, bonsai outlet or any other website and check the price of comparable trees. I did that last year, and Mirai's prices were up to par with the market.

 

[leatherback]

Agreed and I’m willing to bet that it will sell for no less than $3000

Maybe would. It does make me rethink tree values

 

[BobbyLane]

That linden is in-ground grown. It was brought to Mirai in a 25 or 35 gallon container when removed from the ground according to Ryan. I think he said that he had it for 2-3 years now since acquired and moved into the blue pot. So, not your typical nursery grown tree as you can see by the branching and ramification. Below is a pic before the initial work was performed in the APR 2020 stream. Since then the tree has been worked twice, in fall 2020, and fall 2021.

There were 3 trees from that batch, @MACH5 Sergio has one of them, I know he won't say how much he paid for his, but he could give you a ballpark of what to expect.

View attachment 453252



I still can't understand why people b"complain"h so much about Ryan's prices, or any other bonsai artists. You are not paying for a tree dug out of the field, you are paying for 6 years of maintenance, including 3 - 2+ hours of detailed work done, documented in the videos for you to study when you decide to work on them.

This kind of trees is not something that a beginner wants to buy, unless he has the dough to leave it at Mirai or another reputable nursery to be taken care of. There will be plenty of people willing to pay the prices he posts if the tree appeal to them and they have the financial needs.

To put this in perspective, check the price of this tree when it becomes for sale, then go to wigerts, bonsai outlet or any other website and check the price of comparable trees. I did that last year, and Mirai's prices were up to par with the market.

He picked up a couple from a nursery in 2017, this picture is this exact one in this stream from 17min onwards. Nursery trees often have loads of branching to work from, if you know what to look for that is. in this stream alone he found 4 great trees from a nursery. I saw the stream where he worked on it, I was just seeing if anyone else remembered it. Maybe Mach's one was field grown but it sure didnt come from the batch these two came from. I did ask Mach a few months ago how this tree turned out since the initial stream and he shared a photo of it in the blue pot.

similar nursery material

 

[BobbyLane]

There was a thread from a guy in New jersey who picked up a large hornbeam, recently. loads of bones to work with, not much different from the material above, just further examples of whats attainable

 

[Maiden69]

I was just seeing if anyone else remembered it.

I remember that video, I just watch the mini stream of the linden from 2020 and he said he got 3 of them, this is why I didn't think it was part of the nursery series. I do remember the rug juniper, and the cryptomeria that was sold on last years tree sale. Where I am at you would rarely see any decent tree in a nursery. 90% of what they sale is big straight trunk trees, you may find a few big holly, mostly Nellie Stevens. I guess it is easier for people that have forests areas around them.

 

[BobbyLane]

I remember that video, I just watch the mini stream of the linden from 2020 and he said he got 3 of them, this is why I didn't think it was part of the nursery series. I do remember the rug juniper, and the cryptomeria that was sold on last years tree sale. Where I am at you would rarely see any decent tree in a nursery. 90% of what they sale is big straight trunk trees, you may find a few big holly, mostly Nellie Stevens. I guess it is easier for people that have forests areas around them.

Id guess you have to go to a landscape or large wholesale tree nursery. with so much land in Texas and super large gardens I find it hard to believe you couldnt find outstanding nursery material. it might cost, but its the investment in the end. if you can work it properly, you increase its value ten fold, just as Ryan is doing.

 

[rockm]

Here's a link to the Insta reel...

Mirai on Instagram: "Design montage. Endless hours of consideration, care, and maintenance are poured into these living, breathing works of art. One of these world-class bonsai trees can be yours with our annual tree sale that starts next week (9/1

3,428 likes, 36 comments - bonsaimirai on August 25, 2022: "Design montage. Endless hours of consideration, care, and maintenance are poured into these living, breathing works of art. One of these world-class bonsai trees can be yours with our annual tree sale that starts next week (9/1)...

www.instagram.com

Yes, the trees are rough (ish), probably why they're selling them. Yes, they're expensive, but they're also priced for similar collected large material that's been styled by a professional.

 

[rockm]

Id guess you have to go to a landscape or large wholesale tree nursery. with so much land in Texas and super large gardens I find it hard to believe you couldnt find outstanding nursery material. it might cost, but its the investment in the end. if you can work it properly, you increase its value ten fold, just as Ryan is doing.

To think you will get something like what is being sold on Mirai's sale from a landscape nursery is a pipe dream for the most part. Yes, you can find comparable material for less, but it will take some looking and waiting.

I've done that in Texas. You can find larger material that is workable in nurseries there--I've been to dozens in Dallas and East Texas. Some of it is not all that expensive, some of it is. And no, most of it is not outstanding in most any sense and will take decades of work to get into the shape of the trees being sold in Mirai's sale.

For instance, Live oaks (the Texas species--quercus fusiformis) are grown out in containers for landscapes in the state. Larger examples (which have 6-8 inch trunks and are in 95 - 100 gallon pots) are available, but are over $1,000 and are basically rough stock that has to have significant root reduction, trunk chop and complete branch development. That will take a decade.

I began my live oak bonsai with a collected almost 300 year old fusiformis stump taken out of a ranch near Salado. No branching, big root mass. It had a trunk chop on a three inch diameter trunk (base was 9 inches) and no branching to speak of. It's taken almost 30 years to make into a bonsai.

I paid almost $1,000 for that stump back in the 90's-- took me a year to pay it off. It was VERY expensive for the time from one of the top collectors back then (VIto Megna), but I didn't regret the purchase at all. It was worth the money.

 

[BobbyLane]

the lindens are perfect examples of what can be found though, as is the crypomeria. maybe not always, but if you keep hunting there are plenty of gems to be found for relatively good prices. I think his reaction to when he found the linden kinda speaks for itself.

 

[BobbyLane]

If you start with very good nursery material, its not gonna take decades for it to be presentable or for sale on mirai, if it does it probably wasnt worth buying in the first place. the linden was presentable for sale in a matter of 5 years.

this hornbeam is field grown stock, again, not hard to attain, I imagine if he doesnt keep it, it will be available for sale pretty soon. its good material and they grow fast.

The beech forest from nursery material was created 5 years ago, I wonder how much its worth now. it didnt look too shabby right after creation, anyone have an image of it today, 5 years on?

this beech tree i picked up from a nursery, the top half, isnt much different to the hornbeam raft above, very similar.

 

[rockm]

If you start with very good nursery material, its not gonna take decades for it to be presentable or for sale on mirai, if it does it probably wasnt worth buying in the first place. the linden was presentable for sale in a matter of 5 years.

this hornbeam is field grown stock, again, not hard to attain, I imagine if he doesnt keep it, it will be available for sale pretty soon. its good material and they grow fast.

The beech forest from nursery material was created 5 years ago, I wonder how much its worth now. it didnt look too shabby right after creation, anyone have an image of it today, 5 years on?

this beech tree i picked up from a nursery, the top half, isnt much different to the hornbeam raft above, very similar.

Yes, it can take decades. A lot depends on species, climate and know how. I know that trunk chopping a live oak and leaving nothing but a branchless stump takes a very long time to grow a decent leader out, as well as develop decent branching.

Linden is a relatively fast growing tree, as are things like trident maples, bald cypress, and others.

I get that you can SOMETIMES find decent, low priced stuff at nurseries, but what is being offered through the sale ain't common. For instance, Ryan obviously has a "bonsai eye" for stock. That eye takes time and knowledge to acquire. The attributes that eye can see advances the material as well-low branching decent nebari etc. It's not a typical mid-level bonsaiist nursery crawl...the expertise to choose an appropriate piece of stock also figures into the price.

I also went through the video with the cryptomeria. I don't think I hear how much he paid for that tree. It wasn't $20. More like middle $100's or more. Decent mature stock is about that most anywhere. Some, like special JMaples cultivars can be north of $500.

 

[AcerAddict]

Decent mature stock is about that most anywhere. Some, like special JMaples cultivars can be north of $500.

Heck, forget special/rare cultivars. My favorite local nursery wants $399 for a 10' tall standard JM in a 25 gallon pot. Of course, that's intended to be sold as a landscape tree and hasn't been trained one bit. I'd rather spend the $400 on a 24" tall JM that's been trained as a bonsai for several years already. Apples to oranges comparison though, I guess.

 

[Maiden69]

if you can work it properly, you increase its value ten fold, just as Ryan is doing.

No really... remember that having Ryan Neill, Bjorn, Walter Paul, Graham Potter name next to the tree price tag increases the value 10 fold.

But in reality, most of the decent species I see out there are not available in central Texas because of the hot climate. Tridents do really well here, but you can't find them at any retail or wholesale nursery. I think the closest to me is about a 5-6 hr drive by east Texas. There is also a nursery north of Dallas, another 5-6 hr drive that have tridents and other decent material... 30 gal is $280, 45 gal is $380, with straight trunks as they are raised to be landscape trees. JM are at $185 for a 5 gal, and $300 for a 15 gal. But they really don't do well here, I have a kotohime that it's hiding under the trident and the cherry tree in my grow bed that still managed to get some scorched leaves this summer.

Live Oaks are everywhere, and I have talked to a few people that own land to see if there is a possibility of going and collecting one at the end of winter/early spring next year. I had a cedar elm that I was going to collect but we got snowed and it completely messed up my plans, so maybe this spring.

 

[LanceMac10]

Heck, forget special/rare cultivars. My favorite local nursery wants $399 for a 10' tall standard JM in a 25 gallon pot. Of course, that's intended to be sold as a landscape tree and hasn't been trained one bit. I'd rather spend the $400 on a 24" tall JM that's been trained as a bonsai for several years already. Apples to oranges comparison though, I guess.

24"? Double your $400 estimate......It's crazy out there! Problem becomes apparent when every "bonsai propagator" sees what Mirai asks and then thinks their material is in the same ballpark......sorry, Ryan's pretty good.....

With how fast Mirai trees go and at premium pricing, well, I always figured he doesn't ask ENOUGH!

 

[Scorpius]

Ryan is too expensive for me. I won't be purchasing. Live sales are more hype than anything to get you to part with your hard earned money. He could just post these trees for sale on his website, but how boring would that be. I mean look at all the ruffled feathers on here. Lol.

I have other sources for decent material for a novice plebian such as myself to work on.

Peace.

 

[AcerAddict]

Problem becomes apparent when every "bonsai propagator" sees what Mirai asks and then thinks their material is in the same ballpark......sorry, Ryan's pretty good...

Unfortunately, the same thing has happened with "backyard breeders" of dogs, especially in the last 30-40 years or so. The German Shepherd is a great example of this. The breed as you find them in the U.S. nowadays looks NOTHING like how it did when it originated from Germany in the late 19th century. When your average person saw how much money could be made from selling GSD puppies, the breed quickly became a victim of its own popularity.

 

[BillsBayou]

Heck, forget special/rare cultivars. My favorite local nursery wants $399 for a 10' tall standard JM in a 25 gallon pot. Of course, that's intended to be sold as a landscape tree and hasn't been trained one bit. I'd rather spend the $400 on a 24" tall JM that's been trained as a bonsai for several years already. Apples to oranges comparison though, I guess.

I'd be in the nursery parking lot cutting off the top 8' of the tree.

 

[BillsBayou]

No really... remember that having Ryan Neill, Bjorn, Walter Paul, Graham Potter name next to the tree price tag increases the value 10 fold.

Igor Stravinsky was walking in New York when he heard something familiar being played on a violin; being played badly. It was one of his pieces being played by a busker. The violinist's case was open at his feet with a few coins in it. Written on a scrap of cardboard was "Music of Stravinsky". Stravinsky was outraged. "No!" he cried, "That is NOT how that piece is played!" He grabs the man's violin and runs through the same stanza the busker was destroying only moments before. While out of tune, the music was undeniably beautiful. Stravinsky returns the man's violin, rips the cardboard in half and exclaims "Do NOT play that music again!"

A week later, Stravinsky is walking in the same area and hears the same brutal notes he had previously heard. Outraged, he rushed over to see the violinist. This time there were a few people standing there watching and listening in awe. The music was terrible but the busker's case was nearly filled with paper bills. Stravinsky was perplexed. He looked at the people who had gathered. He looked at the case filled with money. He listened to the horrid music. Then he saw the cardboard sign had been replaced. It now read "Student of Stravinsky."