Aleppo Pine Advice

[Hawke84]

Hi all, quick bit of advice. Ive had an Aleppo Pine kicking around that I ended up with kinda by accident (long story) I've been in 2 minds about selling it or not... I was after advice if there is potential for this tree / species or it will always ever be kind of shaggy and unrefined.

 

[sorce]

I like it.

Sorce

 

[Hawke84]

I like it.

Sorce

thanks Source, needs a hair cut, going to keep it i think and practice some pine work on it

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

The Aleppo pine, as a species is a problem child for bonsai. It reverts easily to juvenile foliage. You will frequently end up with a blend of mature foliage with medium green needles in bundles of 2 or 3, and blue-ish juvenile needles, that appear as single needles, looking more spruce like, This mix of foliage types drives people crazy. An older well ramified tree will have mostly mature needles, but trimming can trigger a new flush of juvenile foliage. Not impossible to deal with, but a distinct difficulty.

Your tree has a curvy trunk. Curvy trunks should not come out of the ground bolt upright. At the next opportunity to repot, you should change the angle the trunk leaves the soil. I personally from the photos would tilt the trunk to the right, tilt enough so that the first branch on the left comes off the trunk as horizontal, rather than drooping.

Through the rest of the tree, remember, branches should come off the trunk at the outside of a curve, not the inside of a curve. Remove all the "inside of a curve" branches. Try to keep the outside of a curve branches, but where you have several options, the one on the apex of the curve is the one to keep.

Not all of this needs to be done at once. Myself I would likely transplant and change planting angle in your normal best season for repotting. Then give the tree a year to grow without pruning, maybe wire a few of the lowest branches. Following the year after repotting I would begin pruning. But I live in a relatively short summer climate, depending on how your tree responds you might be able to do more work in a single year.

 

[Shibui]

I gave up on halapensis a long time ago for the reasons Leo mentioned but I probably did not really give them a fair go. Now that I know more about pine training and pruning I might be tempted to try again and see if those problems can be overcome.
Definitely repot at a better angle.
The tree has far more branches than are good for it or necessary. Branches are far better growing from the outside of curves but there are occasions when that's not possible. so rather than 'remove all inside of curve branches' do that where you have the choice of multiple branches.
Long, bare branches can sometimes have bends wired in so the total bare length is reduced. From now on good pine pruning techniques need to be used so you have plenty of buds growing and branches can be kept shorter and compact.
In my climate I would prune, wire and repot in the same season, even in the same session because halapensis is very resilient.

Whether to keep it or not is very subjective. i probably would not but that's because I have more than enough better trees to house and manage. Someone with fewer trees less advanced would pounce on this tree. Every tree has bonsai potential but if you can't see the potential you probably also can't bring it out and such trees will continue to be mediocre until someone with vision and passion takes the time with it.

 

[Hawke84]

Thanks for the advice guys, I think I will keep it and use it to practice pine techniques on and try to build up a better image. Ultimately it cost me around £20 so I'm not going to loose any sleep if its never a masterpiece, I'm happy to have this as a learning tree and maybe one day it will look half descent.
I found this thread where someone did not a bad job of cleaning one up:
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/shohin-aleppo-pine.30504/

I had paused from removing branches as it was repotted this year, but it is currently a bit of a mess. I'll play with the planting angle and different pots ready for the new season, i may not repot this season and work on the branches as it was repotted from solid clay last spring, or perhaps just really look at what image i actually want for this. I might just remove the obvious defect branches this year then repot spring 2021.

 

[Shibui]

Hi Hawke84, I just bought my first Bonsai, a very small Allepo Pine tree. I also live in Worthing, and not sure if should keep the tree outside or indoors. I would like it to be indoors, how are you keeping yours? Is starting to look less healthy, than when it arrived 3 days ago, any advice?

All pines are outdoor species. They will die quite quickly if kept indoors. Pines can be quick to die but slow to show symptoms. I fear it may already be too late for this one.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I started my aleppo pines indoors under high intensity LED. They did OK, but not good. They're Mediterranean pines, and it's pretty sunny in the Mediterranean area.
Outdoors is really the only option to keep them alive on the long run. All pines have a tendency to hide what's bothering them until the damage is done. A lack of outdoor conditions could kill it, but you wouldn't know until it's too late.
So I agree with Shibui on this.

 

[Shibui]

There may still be a chance for your pine. We have not seen a photo to be able to judge the extent of the problem. I would get it outside into good morning sun and afternoon shade if possible an cross fingers. Note that you will need to water more often when it is outside.
Best indoor bonsai is definitely ficus in my opinion. Ficus are one of the few that can manage inside all year if necessary. You will still need a good bright position just inside a window but wit limited direct sunlight as it can get pretty hot when strong sun shines through a window.
there are probably a few other tropical and sub tropical plants that would manage indoors but most can be temperamental and require more effort to maintain as bonsai.

 

[Shibui]

That looks quite healthy. No need to worry about imminent death just yet.
The brown needles right in the middle is perfectly normal. Individual needles only live for a couple of years then turn brown and fall off. You will need to find out how to maintain shoots and needles in the interior so you don't end up with a pine with long, bare branches and tufts of needles at the ends.
Lack of light can also cause shaded needles to die sooner than expected. Interior needles are more shaded than those outside so are more likely to die prematurely.