Acer palmatum beni chidori (from cutting)

[clem]

What was the difference then @clem? I would think the one with tourniquet took because it was kept better in place and had no space to move?

i don't know why some grafts died and this one survived.. The three thread grafts to produce roots had all some space in the hole to thicken.. All of them couldn't move in the greehouse (no wind).
You can see on those 2 pics the 3 holes and 3 thread grafts this spring ->



Maybe 2 branches died because of the tourniquet, which strangled them ? That's why next spring, i won't put tourniquet on them. To see if they survive and to see if they produce roots without any tourniquet.

 

[SeanS]

@clem why not use seedlings for root grafts? I have never seen this tourniqueted branch technique for root grafts, very interesting but seems a bit hit and miss

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Maybe the tourniquet was just a little too small, would need to be at least as large as your drill bit diameter I would think?

 

[Wood]

@clem why not use seedlings for root grafts? I have never seen this tourniqueted branch technique for root grafts, very interesting but seems a bit hit and miss

Maybe he didn't have any cuttings/seedlings available? Definitely unique! I kinda love it. It could help some with arakawa/nishikigawa root grafts by ensuring genetic similarity between the stock and scion

Edit: @clem mentioned here that he likes to keep genetic similarity

 

[SeanS]

Maybe he didn't have any cuttings/seedlings available? Definitely unique! I kinda love it. It could help some with arakawa/nishikigawa root grafts by ensuring genetic similarity between the stock and scion

Edit: @clem mentioned here that he likes to keep genetic similarity

@Wood as most of the replies to that post mentioned, you’d be hard pressed to tell the difference visually when using non-identical seedlings/cuttings for root grafts.
Unless there are other non-visual reasons clem wants to keen the root grafts genetically similar.
To simplify my question then, replace seedlings with “Beni Chidori cuttings” in my question. Would be much more reliable and common place than the tourniquet shoot method clem’s been using IMO.

 

[clem]

@clem why not use seedlings for root grafts? I have never seen this tourniqueted branch technique for root grafts, very interesting but seems a bit hit and miss

That's good advice, i could make a few air layers on young branches, and approach graft them. This is what I was already advised on another forum.

But i prefer and i know better the "thread grafts". I prefer because when you thread graft a branch to create a new root, you can best adjust the enter angle of the branch (future root) and, if the graft takes, you have an interesting root diameter from the start.

I am also stubborn and curious, and i want to understand why the branches thread grafted near to the nebari (soil surface) die easily, and not the branches thread grafted on the trunk (100% succes). Maybe because the diameter of the trunk base is far larger near to the nebari, and the hole is longer ? Maybe the tourniquet strangles them ? That's why i will try to thread graft without any tourniquet next spring to better understand... I'm interested in persevering

 

[clem]

Maybe the tourniquet was just a little too small, would need to be at least as large as your drill bit diameter I would think?

Do you mean putting several tourniquets next to each other (to reach the drill diameter) or a single tourniquet with a much wider thread?
The problem with a single bigger wire is that I can't bend and tighten it without damaging (or even breaking) the branch

 

[clem]

Maybe he didn't have any cuttings/seedlings available? Definitely unique! I kinda love it. It could help some with arakawa/nishikigawa root grafts by ensuring genetic similarity between the stock and scion

Edit: @clem mentioned here that he likes to keep genetic similarity

Yes, i prefer to have 100% Beni chidori to be sure that with time, there is no visual bark difference anywhere..
As SeanS said, I could also make some Beni Chidori air layers on small branches (i don't know how to make cuttings) to approach graft them but i prefer to improve my "thread grafting" technic. I don't want to abandon this technique, which should normally work 100% (like with branch thread grafts) and so I want to persevere.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Do you mean putting several tourniquets next to each other (to reach the drill diameter) or a single tourniquet with a much wider thread?
The problem with a single bigger wire is that I can't bend and tighten it without damaging (or even breaking) the branch

I think you'll be better off as you've concluded without using the tourniquet. I was suggesting if you did to apply the single, with the same size wire, just more loosely. So it would have enough room to grow and fill the hole before it started restricting growth. Thank you for keeping such a detailed log of your work

 

[SeanS]

That's good advice, i could make a few air layers on young branches, and approach graft them. This is what I was already advised on another forum.

But i prefer and i know better the "thread grafts". I prefer because when you thread graft a branch to create a new root, you can best adjust the enter angle of the branch (future root) and, if the graft takes, you have an interesting root diameter from the start.

I am also stubborn and curious, and i want to understand why the branches thread grafted near to the nebari (soil surface) die easily, and not the branches thread grafted on the trunk (100% succes). Maybe because the diameter of the trunk base is far larger near to the nebari, and the hole is longer ? Maybe the tourniquet strangles them ? That's why i will try to thread graft without any tourniquet next spring to better understand... I'm interested in persevering

@clem you can thread graft seedlings, I do thread graft or approach graft with JM seedlings for root grafts.

 

[SaltySea]

@clem do you find that your maples grow better in your grow tent or outside of it? Do you move them around to utilise inside and outside? I'd like to know more about the position of your maples please. Do they get full sun?

 

[Wood]

Maybe the tourniquet strangles them ?

I have zero experience with this technique, but it seems like the tourniquet would be a big issue. Girth of the scion is what causes the graft to fuse, so any tourniquet a similar size or smaller than the hole would stop or reduce how well it fuses

@clem you can thread graft seedlings, I do thread graft or approach graft with JM seedlings for root grafts.

That's definitely a more conventional and safe approach, but clem seems to be getting thick thread grafts and then roots at the tourniquet

@clem, are your roots on the entering or exiting side of the scion? I can't quite tell

 

[clem]

@clem you can thread graft seedlings, I do thread graft or approach graft with JM seedlings for root grafts.

i already thread grafted young cuttings, well rooted, in spring, and they all died.
The next, year, i thread grafted bigger and stronger cuttings, keeping the rootball intact (no root cut), and they all died too (probably because the holes were to narrow and the cuttings had no room enough to grow).

 

[clem]

@clem do you find that your maples grow better in your grow tent or outside of it? Do you move them around to utilise inside and outside? I'd like to know more about the position of your maples please. Do they get full sun?

I keep them in a small ventilated (open) greenhouse, all year long, because i live near to the sea, and the frequent wind block the growth of JM. My JM grow far better in the greenhouse.

But they also catch fungal diseases or aphids more easily in the greenhouse.. so, if you can grow them outside, with no wind, and if they grow well, it is far better. IMO

 

[clem]

@clem, are your roots on the entering or exiting side of the scion? I can't quite tell

I put a tourniquet on the entering side of the branch, which is under the ground level. The exiting side is above the ground level (the branches enter obliquely inside the hole)

 

[clem]

I have zero experience with this technique, but it seems like the tourniquet would be a big issue. Girth of the scion is what causes the graft to fuse, so any tourniquet a similar size or smaller than the hole would stop or reduce how well it fuses

I think the same, that's why i'll try to thread graft without any tourniquet or with a looser, less tight tourniquet next spring.... Dunno yet...

 

[clem]

Hello, i just saw some terminal leaves with those white cottony deposits.. is it fungal or parasitic ?




Thanks. I've never seen that on any of my JM.. It developed in a short time.

 

[pandacular]

Looks a bit like powdery mildew, or perhaps another mildew/fungus. I’d treat the tree with a copper fungicide.

 

[clem]

Looks a bit like powdery mildew, or perhaps another mildew/fungus. I’d treat the tree with a copper fungicide.

thanks