A thread about collecting Tamarack from a bog.

[Eckhoffw]

I have never used moss in the mix. Are you using dried moss or live moss ground up? Do you us it for water retention or? Do you keep your other conifers like spruce and pines in that mix? I would be afraid it would get to soggy.

What @yashu said.
I used dried sphagnum moss pre-soaked for awhile.
It will be mostly be swapped out at the next repot. Peter Chan calls it “The Peter Chan moss trick” He uses it when he wants to help a needy or inadequate root situation to generate more roots.

 

[yashu]

This was after collection in April;
…and this evening

 

[August44]

What @yashu said.
I used dried sphagnum moss pre-soaked for awhile.
It will be mostly be swapped out at the next repot. Peter Chan calls it “The Peter Chan moss trick” He uses it when he wants to help a needy or inadequate root situation to generate more roots.

Hmmm. So, do you grind the dryed moss up in little pieces and add into the soil mix? Food good, fire hot...me gunna get some of dat! Why didn't you tell me about this long ago? I would suppose it would be good to use on all yamadori for a year or so?? Thanks for help!

 

[yashu]

Hmmm. So, do you grind the dryed moss up in little pieces and add into the soil mix? Food good, fire hot...me gunna get some of dat! Why didn't you tell me about this long ago? I would suppose it would be good to use on all yamadori for a year or so?? Thanks for help!

@August44 I dry mine and grind it through the small screen on my soil sieve. I remember seeing the Peter Chan video but I think he uses all or mostly sphagnum when he’s trying to revive a plant. I think any other collected trees I would prefer using pumice. Larches are kind of a special case.

 

[Eckhoffw]

Hmmm. So, do you grind the dryed moss up in little pieces and add into the soil mix? Food good, fire hot...me gunna get some of dat! Why didn't you tell me about this long ago? I would suppose it would be good to use on all yamadori for a year or so?? Thanks for help!

I used a long fibered sphagnum moss. Like the stuff that goes in decorative hanging baskets. I have seen people grate the long fibers over some wire mesh to break it up, but you generally don’t need to do that. But…….It is better grated when using in smaller container and/or mixing with other mediums.

 

[Eckhoffw]

Update.
Well… the good news is that the 2 better trees I collected, are in pretty good shape. After some brief research and advice, I put these trees varied amounts of direct sun. This one got way too much!I had it in direct sun exposure with very little shade for 2 days. I didn’t account for how hot (90 F. ) those days would be.
Doesn’t look totally dead but… yeah. We will see.
Currently they are all back in the dappled shade of the overhead aspen.

 

[yashu]

Hmmmmmm… that’s odd. Mine are in full sun all day long. I just cut the sacrifice branches and removed the wire last week and they are doing well.
Are you sure yours didn’t dry out or experience some other sub-surface issue? I have been having continued success with full sun and damp soil.

 

[Eckhoffw]

Hmmmmmm… that’s odd. Mine are in full sun all day long. I just cut the sacrifice branches and removed the wire last week and they are doing well.View attachment 449483
Are you sure yours didn’t dry out or experience some other sub-surface issue? I have been having continued success with full sun and damp soil.

I’m wondering if the Roots hadn’t developed enough to keep up with the heat. I’m not sure though. I believe the bucket of sphagnum has remained very wet. Could be wrong though.

 

[yashu]

I’m wondering if the Roots hadn’t developed enough to keep up with the heat. I’m not sure though. I believe the bucket of sphagnum has remained very wet. Could be wrong though.

That sounds plausible. If the roots can’t keep up with transpiration then the plant will be in trouble. I had given weekly feedings of Root n’ Grow which is just a high phosphate fertilizer with rooting hormone in it. I used that til about the beginning of July to maintain root development. Not sure how much effect it actually had as I was only watering with about an ounce per gallon at once per week intervals but in my head it seemed worthwhile.

 

[Eckhoffw]

That sounds plausible. If the roots can’t keep up with transpiration then the plant will be in trouble. I had given weekly feedings of Root n’ Grow which is just a high phosphate fertilizer with rooting hormone in it. I used that til about the beginning of July to maintain root development. Not sure how much effect it actually had as I was only watering with about an ounce per gallon at once per week intervals but in my head it seemed worthwhile.View attachment 449484

Ahh. Wait I have some of that! I’ll give it a go. Thanks.

 

[BrianBay9]

I'm curious if the lichen will survive long term. I used to collect rocks with beautiful lichen, but they almost all faded away when removed from their natural environment. Apparently they're very particular. Hopefully you're home is close enough to the bog that they won't notice.

 

[BrianBay9]

Update.
Well… the good news is that the 2 better trees I collected, are in pretty good shape. View attachment 449413View attachment 449414After some brief research and advice, I put these trees varied amounts of direct sun. This one got way too much!View attachment 449415I had it in direct sun exposure with very little shade for 2 days. I didn’t account for how hot (90 F. ) those days would be.
Doesn’t look totally dead but… yeah. We will see.
Currently they are all back in the dappled shade of the overhead aspen.

I realize these are your first attempts, and they look great. But next time I'd be on the lookout for trees with some movement in the first 6 - 12 inches of the trunk. Your trees are lovely, but have very straight lower trunks.

 

[Eckhoffw]

I realize these are your first attempts, and they look great. But next time I'd be on the lookout for trees with some movement in the first 6 - 12 inches of the trunk. Your trees are lovely, but have very straight lower trunks.

Absolutely!
Most of the tamarack out there are pretty straight down low. It was deceiving as each had a very high mound of Moss at the base. I have read that the Tamarack survives the standing water by sending new roots into the moss mound. However when I removed these I found I had to go down below the moss quite a ways before I cut them to get a decent amount of roots.
Next time I will definitely check way low for movement.

 

[Eckhoffw]

I'm curious if the lichen will survive long term. I used to collect rocks with beautiful lichen, but they almost all faded away when removed from their natural environment. Apparently they're very particular. Hopefully you're home is close enough to the bog that they won't notice.

You know, I think your right. I’m guessing the lichen will dry up and disappear before long.
Im less than 1/4 mile from a wetland, but I don’t that will be of much help.

 

[Javaman4373]

I am glad Eckhoffw that you posted that photo of the sunburned tamarack. One of mine has been showing some browning of the needles while it is happily growing. It was in full sun. I suspected the problem might have been too much sun, so I moved it to partial shade. The big tamaracks on our property show no sign of a problem with the sun and hot weather. Nor do several other potted ones I have. Still, I think the issue with this one tree is sunburn.

 

[skunkyjoe]

This was after collection in April;
View attachment 446573…and this evening
View attachment 446575View attachment 446576View attachment 446577

This Larch reminds me of a tree I saw in Western Newfoundland, when I was there this summer. There are many kilometres of naturally dwarfed Larches and other trees. This one has the same shape as the tree above!

 

[yashu]

I am glad Eckhoffw that you posted that photo of the sunburned tamarack. One of mine has been showing some browning of the needles while it is happily growing. It was in full sun. I suspected the problem might have been too much sun, so I moved it to partial shade. The big tamaracks on our property show no sign of a problem with the sun and hot weather. Nor do several other potted ones I have. Still, I think the issue with this one tree is sunburn.

While I won’t go as far as to say that the “too much sun” idea is absolutely wrong, I would question that assessment strongly as you could very well miss the real issue while focusing on a misdiagnosis. I say this because in my searching I have found no evidence anywhere that suggests sunburn is a problem for American Larch. I have found the exact opposite in fact. Larch in their natural environment will not tolerate shade at all. They are a pioneering species that will often be one of the first trees to take hold after a burn or when a beaver dam gives and they will grow on the edges of a forming meadow. Generally the only time you will see larch in among other trees is when they are established as an upper story and their canopy has full sun exposure. Most other times they are solo in boggy land with full exposure and other trees can’t tolerate the wet. The only places I have found mention of sunburned larix laricina is on a couple bonsai forums as a suspected culprit on browning trees.

In my own experience my two (so far) successfully collected trees were treated as I described previously, full sun and moist soil… my one unsuccessful collection I made the mistake of putting it directly into a bonsai pot and the small size of the container and lack of organic material in my potting mix resulted in desiccation.

 

[Javaman4373]

yashu. I think you are most likely correct. I have three other A. larches and they have not shown browning needles to anywhere near the extent for that one tree. It is in a large nursery pot and I think it has been well watered during all this hot weather. Might be some other cause.

 

[Kyleboldy2003]

Certainly no expert, but I have some experience collecting larch from bog environments. Re @Dav4 mention above, I follow Nick Lenz guidelines from his book Bonsai from the Wild, and they seem to align with my experience.
If you have the time, I explain Nick's guidance in this video -

Essentially, the top layer of sphagnum decomposes over time, raising the altitude of the bog and creating that 'black death' peat soil. The larch roots die off in that anaerobic soil. The larch sends out adventitious roots as the bog layer rises, into the top-most layer, where there is living sphagnum. So you 1) want to collect only the top most layer of roots that are living and 2) he recommends collecting these in early fall, ideally as the foliage is just starting to color up.

I've gone a few collecting trips for larch - on my spring trip (as noted in the video) the larch did not survive (buds popped and declined). On my fall trips, I have had success. I do protect them over winter from deep freezes but still left them outside protected from wind.

Hope this helps. There are others with much more experience here. Cheers!

brad how’s it going? How are these trees doing now?

 

[Underdog]

Just to add my Larch is in full sun and happy in a bonsai pot for several years. Good luck w/yours.