Newbie with bonsai wisteria

Sam77

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Hi just joined this forum and wanted some advice on how to achieve a great looking bonsai, which branches to cut and when and any other relevant info which would help me in this new hobby… I have grown these 2 wisteria bonsai from a shoot for around 5 years now and would love to have a nice taper old style look so please let me know what I can do from you experts to achieve this TiA
Sam
 
Given your wisteria have laves on now I guess you are somewhere in Northern hemisphere but much of what we do is very dependant on location and climate so it really pays to add a location to your personal profile so people replying can take that into account.

Wisteria cuttings are notoriously slow to thicken. Like other trees there's 2 main ways to get thicker trunks:
1. Growth. Lots of growth. Fortunately wisteria shoot after hard chop so you can put the wisteria in a big tub or in the ground and let it grow until the trunk is thick then chop back to the desired size and then try to develop branches, etc. Unfortunately, wisteria do not heal real well and wood is soft so many chopped wisteria have decayed and hollow trunks.
2. Time. Lots of time and I'm talking many years. The trunk will slowly thicken but it does take an agonizingly long time.

The only other way I know of to get a thick bonsai wisteria soon, is to start with a thick wisteria trunk.
 
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Given your wisteria have laves on now I guess you are somewhere in Northern hemisphere but much of what we do is very dependant on location and climate so it really pays to add a location to your personal profile so people replying can take that into account.

Wisteria cuttings are notoriously slow to thicken. Like other trees there's 2 main ways to get thicker trunks:
1. Growth. Lots of growth. Fortunately wisteria shoot after hard chop so you can put the wisteria in a big tub or in the ground and let it grow until the trunk is thick then chop back to the desired size and then try to develop branches, etc. Unfortunately, wisteria do not heal real well and wood is soft so many chopped wisteria have decayed and hollow trunks.
2. Time. Lots of time and I'm talking many years. The trunk will slowly thicken but it does take an agonizingly long time.

The only other way I know of to get a thick bonsai wisteria soon, is to start with a thick wisteria trunk.
Thanks I am in the Uk London, when would be a good time to cut back branches coming away from the trunk?
 
Pruning can be done any time of year. Are you talking about cutting the branches right off or just shortening them? All leaves above any point on a plant contribute to trunk thickening below so prematurely pruning branches slows thickening. We often designate some redundant branches as sacrifice branches. Their whole purpose is to help thicken the trunk below point of attachment but they will be removed when thickening has been achieved.

BTW, go to your personal profile and add location there. Then it comes up every time you post so you don't need to remember to add it every time. You will see that most posts have the member's location in the box on the left so everyone can see at a glance where they are.
 
Thanks so I assume from what you say that this would be best in Uk spring time when there are no leaves to promote new growth? I mean cutting branches off
 
Late winter is the FIRST time wisteria are pruned during the year. Subsequent pruning to control growth is done in the summer through the autumn as needed. Drastic structural pruning is done in the fall. Hard pruning into old wood induces backbudding, as well as flowering (if done correctly) All that pruning is necessary to maintain shape and induce blooms.

What you're asking, however, is not really possible with the plants you have for a number of reasons. First, They're simply too young. Wisteria, unless grown from cuttings from a mature plant generally won't bloom until they are mature enough to do so. That takes about eight to ten (or longer) years.

Second, structurally, leaves and blooms on wisteria are a problem for bonsai wisteria. Leaves are compound and large. Blossoms are up to a foot long--there is no reason to grow wisteria other than the flowers. They are a rampant aggressive vine that puts out prodigious amounts of leaves and vines that make them a pain in the ass to keep up with in a pot. The trunks on your plants are physically not really big enough to support the growth needed to make a bonsai out of them. Growth is needed to thicken their trunks.

Third, pruning that growth will significantly slow the needed trunk thickening you need. There is no real way to prune them now to induce believable taper in the trunks of your plants without compromising their structural ability to support leaves and growth.

Fourth, smaller containers also restrict growth and thickening-although slowing growth on a wisteria is a relative thing.

Old wisteria bonsai are typically begun with large or even huge heavily reduced trunks dug up from gardens. Those trunks produce growth that is developed into branching over time. Huge trunks are necessary not only to produce flowers, but to support the heavy growth this species produces.

Wisteria is a problematic plant to use for bonsai. It is not a tree. It is a vine. It acts like a vine--with heavy top growth and very little thickening at the base. The plant devotes most of its energy to growing UP a stationary support structures like other trees. It doesn't produce strong wood and relies on support from other things it grows on. It has very aggressive roots and vines. Here in the mid-Atlantic states in the U.S., wisteria has become an invasive. It sprouts everywhere. If it is planted too close to houses, it grows so aggressively it can shift entire buildings off of foundations and pull siding off of buildings. In a container, it does the same, although if you put an air gap under the pot, roots won't escape into the ground. That rampant growth has to be cut back or limited because it can take over other bonsai near it--you can tie extending tendrils and new vines into loose knots to slow it down until pruning time.

All that said, if you want to prune your plants, hack away at them any time between May and August. They'll be fine. Good luck!
 
Hack away that’s a bit much I don’t want to kill them
You won't. Believe me. Wisteria is extremely tough and resilient--that's why it's an invasive plant here. Chopping one up is like chopping the head off a hydra, you get six more plants. Even chopped pieces left lying on the ground from a cut up old plant can root given a rainy summer. If you have them in soil that doesn't dry out and outside where they get six or eight hours of sun, they'll take over the garden. Keep them off direct contact with the ground so the roots can't escape. A bit larger container wouldn't hurt.

FWIW, I've been collecting and hacking wisteria for years for bonsai. I finally got too tired of the effort they require. I have them in profusion growing wild in the woods behind me. I finally gave my last one away one summer after having to extract my other bonsai from the grasping new growth on it. Here's an example of what's around here. The top of this one grew 50 feet up an elm over a couple of decades, ultimately overshadowing and killing the tree.
 

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FWIW, the pic below is typically how wisteria bonsai are made. The tree is made from a plant that had been growing on a trellis at my friend's house for about 20 years. It was trunk chopped to about three feet tall and dug up all at once, severing most of its roots to fit it into a container.
 

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I’m trying to do the same thing but on a much smaller scale to fit inside our house which is why I want advice on what I have we’re in London and we know in USA everything is bigger an better but that’s not what I want but thank for your advice
 
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Thanks so I assume from what you say that this would be best in Uk spring time when there are no leaves to promote new growth? I mean cutting branches off
I don't think there is a 'best' time to cut off branches. Even in UK, wisteria is virtually unkillable so pruning any time will not harm the tree. Dormant time of year is often promoted but that's only because you can see the branches (and any potential flower buds) better with no leaves. Results are still the same whenever you prune.
Just remember that the more you prune the longer it will take for the trunk to thicken.

I’m trying to do the same thing but on a much smaller scale to fit inside our house
Does this mean you intend to keep this as an indoor plant? That could be one of the few ways to make sure wisteria does not survive very long. Most trees do not like indoor conditions - light, air quality, humidity, etc and plant pests and diseases can be a real problem indoors. Some die quick, some last a year or so and only a very few species can cope because they come from similar environment. Those few are the ones sold as 'indoor' plants.
I have not tried to keep wisteria indoors and may be wrong but would not hold out much hope for yours surviving more than a year or 2 if kept inside.
 
I’m trying to do the same thing but on a much smaller scale to fit inside our house which is why I want advice on what I have we’re in London and we know in USA everything is bigger an better but that’s not what I want but thank for your advice
You cannot grow wisteria inside. It will die.
 
It’s been ok for the last 5 years plus they’re in a summer house
If you're not really open to advice, why ask questions? The best answer to what you're asked would be to get the plants outside for direct sun exposure, in better containers with moister soil to stimulate strong growth that you can work with. As things are now, and you insist on keeping them in a situation that limits growth, you're not really going to get what you want.

Define OK. A summer house, as see it, is not really completely "inside" as in on a shelf in your living room...A summer house that is covered with walls, but open to a bit of sun may provide enough light to keep the plant limping along. It's a situation that is taking its toll on the plants and delaying actual bonsai work. The vines you're shown are significantly smaller that something grown outside FWIW with weak growth, It's not really a great situation for them, as their progress shows.
 
As for the "everything is bigger in the U.S." thing, wisteria bonsai began in Japan. They grow it as I have described using medium sized, large and extremely large garden-grown plants as starter material. Same for the U.K.

To say that is to completely misunderstand the advice. Wisteria is grown for its flowers. To support those huge flowers and the large compound leaves, large trunks and structure are required. Using small plants like yours provides none of that and if you get blooms, the tree will probably flop over or off the table it's on.

My advice applies anywhere on the planet the plant is grown.
 
Interesting thread. I bought a wisteria at Lowe's this spring with eventual bonsai in my plans. It's in a 5-gallon pot and growing vigorously, with tendrils encircling a stand of cannas growing behind it's pot. But from the post-purchase research I've done (yes, I realize I have this backwards) it seems there is a distinctly Japanese version that blooms before the foliage emerges and the American version that leafs-out long before the blooms arrive. I wanted the former. But I suppose I'll just muddle on through and see how it works out. The beast is a water hog in our Texas heat and August is still on the horizon...Wisteria.jpeg
 
Interesting thread. I bought a wisteria at Lowe's this spring with eventual bonsai in my plans. It's in a 5-gallon pot and growing vigorously, with tendrils encircling a stand of cannas growing behind it's pot. But from the post-purchase research I've done (yes, I realize I have this backwards) it seems there is a distinctly Japanese version that blooms before the foliage emerges and the American version that leafs-out long before the blooms arrive. I wanted the former. But I suppose I'll just muddle on through and see how it works out. The beast is a water hog in our Texas heat and August is still on the horizon...View attachment 495433
Interesting info, I had a mother plant like yours and took a shoot that sprouted from the earth and created a bonsai which is really satisfying. The flowers on wisteria are beautiful and to think we can make a bonsai tree out of one is even more so incredible
 
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