Looks like Paul Stokes was finally contacted by Will.
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/a...isappeared-with-robert-steven-s-pot-t3822.htm
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/a...isappeared-with-robert-steven-s-pot-t3822.htm
Will Heath and the Mysterious Case of Disappearing Pots
- Thread starter mcpesq817
- Start date
- Status
bumblebee
Mame
Does anybody know if this matter has been cleared up?
Libby
Libby
Robert Steven
Mame
- Messages
- 118
- Reaction score
- 19
No, the problem is not solved yet. He gave me dozens of rediculous reasons and promises, but no action. I still receive emails from people paid but do not receive the shipment,he did not send to the contest winners as I sponsored..and he DID NOT pay me anything and no sale report as I have been requested !!! HE IS A THIEF AND A BIG LIER...!!!..and he spoil his own reputation in bonsai world...
ghues
Omono
Dear Robert,
I feel your pain.........for giving someone your trust, of your vision to bring many of us together through our mutual love for this craft.
You can be rest assured that I treasure your pot and more importantly your contributions to the bonsai world.
Sincerely
Graham
I feel your pain.........for giving someone your trust, of your vision to bring many of us together through our mutual love for this craft.
You can be rest assured that I treasure your pot and more importantly your contributions to the bonsai world.
Sincerely
Graham
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Hmmm....Some of us did not even have to do business with this person to know that. Too bad you had to find out the painful way.
Robert Steven
Mame
- Messages
- 118
- Reaction score
- 19
Will, your very last promise to solve the problem this week is due....
If as you said, there were only 4 un-shipped order and your reason was always time, I can't understand why you can't do it within more than 6 months times I have been giving you ????
If your problem is financial, then I offer you my very last good will to help..just not to disappoint our friends who have been expecting for the pots. Please ship IMMEDIATELY without any delay to them, let me know the freights and I will pay for it. Then send me the full report of the sales, the remaining stock...and if you cannot pay me for the sold quantity, just tell me...but I want the remaining stock back !!!
If as you said, there were only 4 un-shipped order and your reason was always time, I can't understand why you can't do it within more than 6 months times I have been giving you ????
If your problem is financial, then I offer you my very last good will to help..just not to disappoint our friends who have been expecting for the pots. Please ship IMMEDIATELY without any delay to them, let me know the freights and I will pay for it. Then send me the full report of the sales, the remaining stock...and if you cannot pay me for the sold quantity, just tell me...but I want the remaining stock back !!!
Will needs to clear this up! He has no future in bonsai, except in his own back yard, if he does not clear this up. I have been following your situation and feel bad for you Robert. The word is slowly getting around in the bonsai community about Will and his poor business tactics. If he does not clear this up its only a question of time until he sinks.
Pine Barron
Yamadori
- Messages
- 64
- Reaction score
- 0
I think that is just the thing...His future bonsai are in those pots....hahaha
Anonymous User
Banned
Things are back to normal and I once again have the time to deal with some overdue obligations. Unfortunately I do not have the time to spar with the usual critics, whose complaints and whining can be traced back years on this forum alone.
That being said, the story on Roberts pots can be read in this post. The post is dynamic, I will add to it over the next week as time permits. The biggest problem seems to be with prizes from the AoB awards not being received by the winners and the biggest question still remains why Robert (who donated these prizes) just didn't ship them out himself instead of expecting me to do so. He had 250 of the pots, and he knew I was absent....?
Either way, what's done is done, I'm back and the remaining pots will be shipped by me personally shorty.
If you are awaiting a pot, please see the following:
http://artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=4037
and
http://willheath.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/shipping-issues/
Sorry, I just don't have the time to check back here often, so any comments directed at me should be emailed to me. Of course, feel free, as usual, to hack away, knowing I won't be reading...
That being said, the story on Roberts pots can be read in this post. The post is dynamic, I will add to it over the next week as time permits. The biggest problem seems to be with prizes from the AoB awards not being received by the winners and the biggest question still remains why Robert (who donated these prizes) just didn't ship them out himself instead of expecting me to do so. He had 250 of the pots, and he knew I was absent....?
Either way, what's done is done, I'm back and the remaining pots will be shipped by me personally shorty.
If you are awaiting a pot, please see the following:
http://artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=4037
and
http://willheath.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/shipping-issues/
Sorry, I just don't have the time to check back here often, so any comments directed at me should be emailed to me. Of course, feel free, as usual, to hack away, knowing I won't be reading...
grouper52
Masterpiece
Yawn. He has no face.
Hopefully, the fact that he won't be reading also means he won't be posting. In any event, I'll put the ignore button back on.
Pine Barron
Yamadori
- Messages
- 64
- Reaction score
- 0
I saw this post by Will and I thought to myself, wow Will Heath is going to do the right thing... Good for him. Then I saw at Will's site this garbage he calls an excuse if it is even an excuse.... He even took the time to insult this man that he had wronged instead of offering a profound apology in this line "however I didn’t think they would have been any more useful as targets than they are for bonsai." If it were any sane, normal, ethical person he would have come to Robert with a sincere apology, but no he instead insults the man and our intelligence.
Here is the refuse:
"I originally (somewhat reluctantly) agreed to a request by Robert Steven to act as an agent to help him sell some pots he created.
Robert had always been a supporter of AoB and he has also been a good friend for a number of years. I didn’t agree because I thought I owed him anything, in fact I had recently edited a book for him at no charge, a huge task which I enjoyed immensely, but which was wrought with after-edit mistakes which made most my work on the project mostly wasted time, but that’s another story soon to be posted here on my blog. Instead I agreed because the arrangement would hopefully bring some funds into AoB.
The original agreement was that I would sell the pots at $35.00 each, giving him $24.00 for each pot sold. I figured that customers would pay for shipping and handling, so AoB would net a profit of $11.00 for each pot sold. Money that could be used for contest prizes, donations to bonsai organizations, etc. Based on my success in the recent auction of Vaughn Banting merchandise and the incredible number of contest entrants as well as visitors to AoB, I agreed to act as an agent for Robert and help him on his latest commercial venture.
My first surprise came when the 250 (out of a limited run of 500) pots Robert Shipped to me arrived at customs after a long wait. I had to pay out of my pocket $450.00 for freight and customs from San Francisco, CA and another $130.00 for customs storage and handling here in Detroit. Needless to say, I was surprised to have to start this venture by outlaying $580.00 of my money out just to receive the pots. I brought this up to Robert, who assured me that he would cover the expenses of freight and shipping, and to just take it out of the money he would have coming after the sale of the pots. I agreed and let my $580.00 ride, knowing I would get it back after 17 pots sold. ($580.00 divided by $35.00 each which meant neither Robert or AoB would receive income on the first 17 sales, instead my unplanned for investment would be covered.)
Robert then donated 8 pots as prizes in the AoB Awards contest, which was his right since they are his pots, however shipping and handling was left up to me. I was to ship these pots out of the 250 pots I had, I still do not know why he did not ship these prizes he donated out of the 250 pots he still had. I do know that I was expected to pay the shipping and handling costs out of my pocket and add the costs to the $580.00 balance already owed to me.
Then the bottom fell out of my world again, I will not dive again into the family problems that came up, or my mother’s trips to the hospital, a stolen laptop, nor my own broken leg and health problems. The end result is that shipping of pots, purchased or won as prizes stopped and all matters in my life were put on the back burner, the far back burner.
I came back home to a gross misperception that hundreds of pots were sold, that I somehow absconded with thousands of dollars, and other such garbage planted and fertilized by the usual few ignorantia and retardāre that migrated from BT to Bnut when it closed. I also found that Robert had removed any avenue for continued sales of his pots, placing the remaining inventory in status, until this fiasco is resolved.
(I have to confess, my first impulse upon returning and seeing the crap on-line was simply to donate all the remaining pots to the local skeet shooting club to be used as clay pigeons, however I didn’t think they would have been any more useful as targets than they are for bonsai. Anyhow, after a few months of mulling it over, I thought it best if I just did the right thing and clear up the mess.)
When I continue this post, I will show photos, inventory, receipts, and spreadsheets that will show that a whopping 20 pots in total have been sold, enough to barely cover my expenses.
more to come soon….."
Many in the online bonsai world have known for a long time that Will is a scum bag. Robert, I am sorry you had to find out the hard way.
Here is the refuse:
"I originally (somewhat reluctantly) agreed to a request by Robert Steven to act as an agent to help him sell some pots he created.
Robert had always been a supporter of AoB and he has also been a good friend for a number of years. I didn’t agree because I thought I owed him anything, in fact I had recently edited a book for him at no charge, a huge task which I enjoyed immensely, but which was wrought with after-edit mistakes which made most my work on the project mostly wasted time, but that’s another story soon to be posted here on my blog. Instead I agreed because the arrangement would hopefully bring some funds into AoB.
The original agreement was that I would sell the pots at $35.00 each, giving him $24.00 for each pot sold. I figured that customers would pay for shipping and handling, so AoB would net a profit of $11.00 for each pot sold. Money that could be used for contest prizes, donations to bonsai organizations, etc. Based on my success in the recent auction of Vaughn Banting merchandise and the incredible number of contest entrants as well as visitors to AoB, I agreed to act as an agent for Robert and help him on his latest commercial venture.
My first surprise came when the 250 (out of a limited run of 500) pots Robert Shipped to me arrived at customs after a long wait. I had to pay out of my pocket $450.00 for freight and customs from San Francisco, CA and another $130.00 for customs storage and handling here in Detroit. Needless to say, I was surprised to have to start this venture by outlaying $580.00 of my money out just to receive the pots. I brought this up to Robert, who assured me that he would cover the expenses of freight and shipping, and to just take it out of the money he would have coming after the sale of the pots. I agreed and let my $580.00 ride, knowing I would get it back after 17 pots sold. ($580.00 divided by $35.00 each which meant neither Robert or AoB would receive income on the first 17 sales, instead my unplanned for investment would be covered.)
Robert then donated 8 pots as prizes in the AoB Awards contest, which was his right since they are his pots, however shipping and handling was left up to me. I was to ship these pots out of the 250 pots I had, I still do not know why he did not ship these prizes he donated out of the 250 pots he still had. I do know that I was expected to pay the shipping and handling costs out of my pocket and add the costs to the $580.00 balance already owed to me.
Then the bottom fell out of my world again, I will not dive again into the family problems that came up, or my mother’s trips to the hospital, a stolen laptop, nor my own broken leg and health problems. The end result is that shipping of pots, purchased or won as prizes stopped and all matters in my life were put on the back burner, the far back burner.
I came back home to a gross misperception that hundreds of pots were sold, that I somehow absconded with thousands of dollars, and other such garbage planted and fertilized by the usual few ignorantia and retardāre that migrated from BT to Bnut when it closed. I also found that Robert had removed any avenue for continued sales of his pots, placing the remaining inventory in status, until this fiasco is resolved.
(I have to confess, my first impulse upon returning and seeing the crap on-line was simply to donate all the remaining pots to the local skeet shooting club to be used as clay pigeons, however I didn’t think they would have been any more useful as targets than they are for bonsai. Anyhow, after a few months of mulling it over, I thought it best if I just did the right thing and clear up the mess.)
When I continue this post, I will show photos, inventory, receipts, and spreadsheets that will show that a whopping 20 pots in total have been sold, enough to barely cover my expenses.
more to come soon….."
Many in the online bonsai world have known for a long time that Will is a scum bag. Robert, I am sorry you had to find out the hard way.
Last edited:
Klytus
Omono
He was the soil-water guy?
Pine Barron
Yamadori
- Messages
- 64
- Reaction score
- 0
Wait a second Will Heath...
On Nov. 20 2009 You claimed that 100's of pots were sold already.
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41245&postcount=15
On March 26th you claimed 20 pots were sold.
Oh snap.... Caught in another LIE.
On Nov. 20 2009 You claimed that 100's of pots were sold already.
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41245&postcount=15
On March 26th you claimed 20 pots were sold.
Oh snap.... Caught in another LIE.
Last edited:
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
After long and careful consideration, I have taken the step to ban Will from this site.
I have very mixed emotions about doing this. Will was one of our earliest members, and has contributed to many of our discussions over the years. However I feel that there is too much controversy surrounding his current situation, and quite frankly, I am not satisfied with the way he has responded to it.
As Will will no longer be visiting here, please do not come here and trash the man's reputation since he cannot defend himself. If you were affected by the bonsai pot incident, and things were eventually resolved to your satisfaction, I would appreciate it if you would let us all know.
I have very mixed emotions about doing this. Will was one of our earliest members, and has contributed to many of our discussions over the years. However I feel that there is too much controversy surrounding his current situation, and quite frankly, I am not satisfied with the way he has responded to it.
As Will will no longer be visiting here, please do not come here and trash the man's reputation since he cannot defend himself. If you were affected by the bonsai pot incident, and things were eventually resolved to your satisfaction, I would appreciate it if you would let us all know.
monza
Shohin
Oh the drama, as a newbie it can be entertaining and not knowing the character of the people involved it's just ...
I'd just like to see what these pots look like? Any pics?
I'd just like to see what these pots look like? Any pics?
Robert Steven
Mame
- Messages
- 118
- Reaction score
- 19
Now we all can see his real character and attitude..yet he looks so dumb and stupid with his recent posts. After more than one year of all of his silly excuses, now he puts the main question as why I didn’t ship the sponsored pot by myself. If he couldn’t afford to ship the pots I sponsored, why didn’t tell me from the beginning ? I had been offering to bear the shipping cost, but he never responded, instead, he kept promising to ship out but never did ! I don’t have any stock left, otherwise, I’d have sent from my side…
His statement saying he was initially reluctant to help as my agent to sell the pot is abusing and insulting. My first intention to make this pot was from our discussion on how to raise fund for AoB; we even once talked about organizing a penjing training trip to China, made an AoB store selling bonsai memorabilia..and eventually I came out with this pot to be distributed by AoB; and he was so happy with this idea (I have the evidence of this communication).
Pine is right, he claimed as had sold more than 100 pots. He posted on AoB (Letters to The Editors) an official sales report sometime in mid-2010 showing about 40 pots had been sold. But now the related post has been deleted !
Assuming his recent statement of only 20 pots sold as correct, then why he never willing to give me the sales report and ship the remaining stock to an address in America on my expenses ?
His further statement..”… to donate all the remaining pots to the local skeet shooting club to be used as clay pigeons…” is showing his attitude. Those pots are still mine, why he doesn’t simply return them back to me ? I NEVER asked him to pay the entire quantity because the our commitment was under consignment, he pays what he sells; and he knew from the beginning that he would pay the import handling charge and claim to me. Why he insist on keeping the stock and refuse to pay me ??? ??? …or maybe he had sold and got payment more than the 250 pots he could ship ????
Let’s see what he will do…I will keep hunting him…..
His statement saying he was initially reluctant to help as my agent to sell the pot is abusing and insulting. My first intention to make this pot was from our discussion on how to raise fund for AoB; we even once talked about organizing a penjing training trip to China, made an AoB store selling bonsai memorabilia..and eventually I came out with this pot to be distributed by AoB; and he was so happy with this idea (I have the evidence of this communication).
Pine is right, he claimed as had sold more than 100 pots. He posted on AoB (Letters to The Editors) an official sales report sometime in mid-2010 showing about 40 pots had been sold. But now the related post has been deleted !
Assuming his recent statement of only 20 pots sold as correct, then why he never willing to give me the sales report and ship the remaining stock to an address in America on my expenses ?
His further statement..”… to donate all the remaining pots to the local skeet shooting club to be used as clay pigeons…” is showing his attitude. Those pots are still mine, why he doesn’t simply return them back to me ? I NEVER asked him to pay the entire quantity because the our commitment was under consignment, he pays what he sells; and he knew from the beginning that he would pay the import handling charge and claim to me. Why he insist on keeping the stock and refuse to pay me ??? ??? …or maybe he had sold and got payment more than the 250 pots he could ship ????
Let’s see what he will do…I will keep hunting him…..
Robert Steven
Mame
- Messages
- 118
- Reaction score
- 19
Chris Johnston
Omono
In the interest of the recently banned Will's ability to defend himself, here's his follow up post in its entirety:
“…
Let me fill you in on other information you seem to have ignored. I have all but one case of your pots still. That’s it, I sent you the sale log and short of 4 pots that have yet to be shipped, that’s all that has been sold. So I’m sitting on all but one case of your pots that can’t be sold, thanks to you. I also had to spend my own money at first to get them through customs/freight, yes, I also have money and time invested in this. Not to mention that for the prizes you donated, I have to pay the shipping out of my own pocket as well.
People talk about ALL THIS MONEY I have of yours, no, what I have is a lot of unsold pots, what has been sold doesn’t cover my expenses yet.
Answer me this Robert, how am I supposed to sell 90% of these pots I still have when you’re running around calling me a thief? How exactly do you expect to get your money for these pots? Do you think I’m going to pay you up front and be stuck with all these pots after you yourself have made it next to impossible to sell them?
I handled vaughn banting’s auction as well as many other events on-line and never had a problem, I can’t and won’t apologize for having to be with my mother, sorry, had I’d known, I wouldn’t have agreed to HELP you sell your pots and make a profit.
…
As always, I’m not one to whine and cry over things, anyone can identify the problem, but real men can identify the solution….here’s mine….
What needs to be done, in my opinion, is….
We need to stop the on-line crap, it isn’t helping sales, what needs to be said is that everything is worked out, things were not as they seemed (THERE IS NO THEFT), and that the pots are available for purchase once again.
We set up a page or two where people can once again order pots and then you need to promote them, as I will and you need to endorse them, to counteract all you have said in the past.
To assure trust, we make the paypal address where they can pay yours. This means that all payments will go direct into your paypal account, but it also means that you get the shipping information….so you’ll have to email me the shipping information so I can ship the pot out and you’ll also need then to paypal me the shipping money (which is added into the price by paypal) for example, they pay 35 for the pot and 11 for shipping you get 35 and paypal me 11.
In addition, I will bypass our original agreement letting AoB keep anything over what you wanted for the pots and let you keep 100% of the sale price. All I want is the shipping cost.
Considering that I have 90% of the pots just sitting in my basement collecting dust that are basically un-sellable now, I think this is a good solution that will resolve the issue, allowing us to sell the pots while earning you even more than you anticipated.
To recap, for this to work…We will put up a couple places where they can order the pots, with funds going to your paypal account. I can even put them up on bonsai literati which gets a lot of visitors now, I can announce it at AoB, and also send out notices to every bonsai club in America, and I think I can get bonsai bark to announce it as well. When they sell, you keep 100% of the price and simply paypal me the shipping charge and email me the shipping info, I will ship as soon as I get it.
This allows us to sell all these pots, it gives you much more money then you originally wanted…Fair?”
In the email above, sent a couple weeks ago, I outlined a plan to Robert which was a win/win for him, he gets $11.00 more for each pot, and all proceeds go to him. This would allow me to finally get rid of these pots and it would allow robert to finally have them sold, while making a larger profit than planned.
Robert passed on this offer for unknown reasons, but one is lead to believe that Robert really doesn’t want to sell these pots or make his money on them.
More to come…..
“…
Let me fill you in on other information you seem to have ignored. I have all but one case of your pots still. That’s it, I sent you the sale log and short of 4 pots that have yet to be shipped, that’s all that has been sold. So I’m sitting on all but one case of your pots that can’t be sold, thanks to you. I also had to spend my own money at first to get them through customs/freight, yes, I also have money and time invested in this. Not to mention that for the prizes you donated, I have to pay the shipping out of my own pocket as well.
People talk about ALL THIS MONEY I have of yours, no, what I have is a lot of unsold pots, what has been sold doesn’t cover my expenses yet.
Answer me this Robert, how am I supposed to sell 90% of these pots I still have when you’re running around calling me a thief? How exactly do you expect to get your money for these pots? Do you think I’m going to pay you up front and be stuck with all these pots after you yourself have made it next to impossible to sell them?
I handled vaughn banting’s auction as well as many other events on-line and never had a problem, I can’t and won’t apologize for having to be with my mother, sorry, had I’d known, I wouldn’t have agreed to HELP you sell your pots and make a profit.
…
As always, I’m not one to whine and cry over things, anyone can identify the problem, but real men can identify the solution….here’s mine….
What needs to be done, in my opinion, is….
We need to stop the on-line crap, it isn’t helping sales, what needs to be said is that everything is worked out, things were not as they seemed (THERE IS NO THEFT), and that the pots are available for purchase once again.
We set up a page or two where people can once again order pots and then you need to promote them, as I will and you need to endorse them, to counteract all you have said in the past.
To assure trust, we make the paypal address where they can pay yours. This means that all payments will go direct into your paypal account, but it also means that you get the shipping information….so you’ll have to email me the shipping information so I can ship the pot out and you’ll also need then to paypal me the shipping money (which is added into the price by paypal) for example, they pay 35 for the pot and 11 for shipping you get 35 and paypal me 11.
In addition, I will bypass our original agreement letting AoB keep anything over what you wanted for the pots and let you keep 100% of the sale price. All I want is the shipping cost.
Considering that I have 90% of the pots just sitting in my basement collecting dust that are basically un-sellable now, I think this is a good solution that will resolve the issue, allowing us to sell the pots while earning you even more than you anticipated.
To recap, for this to work…We will put up a couple places where they can order the pots, with funds going to your paypal account. I can even put them up on bonsai literati which gets a lot of visitors now, I can announce it at AoB, and also send out notices to every bonsai club in America, and I think I can get bonsai bark to announce it as well. When they sell, you keep 100% of the price and simply paypal me the shipping charge and email me the shipping info, I will ship as soon as I get it.
This allows us to sell all these pots, it gives you much more money then you originally wanted…Fair?”
In the email above, sent a couple weeks ago, I outlined a plan to Robert which was a win/win for him, he gets $11.00 more for each pot, and all proceeds go to him. This would allow me to finally get rid of these pots and it would allow robert to finally have them sold, while making a larger profit than planned.
Robert passed on this offer for unknown reasons, but one is lead to believe that Robert really doesn’t want to sell these pots or make his money on them.
More to come…..
Robert Steven
Mame
- Messages
- 118
- Reaction score
- 19
Chris, thanks for posting this. In fact this is the last part I am going to comment later if he does not fulfil his promises to ship the pots to the people and to send me the sales report and solve the remaining stock.
What is posted above is exactly what he sent me aby email on 19th Feb., and the attached file is my reply to him by email on 20th. Can someone help me if my English was that bad that he didn't get my point.....
I NEVER want him to pay me for the stock because our commitment was on consignment..he knows he only need to pay me for what sold ! He knew he needed to pay in advance for the import handling cost and he can claim to me afterward. I told him if the sold amount does not cover what the $ 580 he had paid (which is not the case), I would pay him, but I reminded him many many times to send me the sales report…but never done !!!
As mentioned on my email, I asked him to send the remaining stock to an address in America on my expenses, and I even promised to announce to public that our problem was resolved afterward as he expected….
What is posted above is exactly what he sent me aby email on 19th Feb., and the attached file is my reply to him by email on 20th. Can someone help me if my English was that bad that he didn't get my point.....
I NEVER want him to pay me for the stock because our commitment was on consignment..he knows he only need to pay me for what sold ! He knew he needed to pay in advance for the import handling cost and he can claim to me afterward. I told him if the sold amount does not cover what the $ 580 he had paid (which is not the case), I would pay him, but I reminded him many many times to send me the sales report…but never done !!!
As mentioned on my email, I asked him to send the remaining stock to an address in America on my expenses, and I even promised to announce to public that our problem was resolved afterward as he expected….
- Status
