why is it impossible to find!!

[badatusernames]

I have been to both of those places and have purchased trees from them that were on the higher end ( and maybe that's part of another discussion on what newbies should expect from "pre-bonsai" and what they should expect to pay for them.

Yeah, that's the real challenge. That tree I posted came rough and unshaped, so there's still an element of following its development, but I was told it took 20+ years to grow by someone who trained in Japan specifically to learn to grow material for bonsai.

So the investment of the training, the years of growing, etc - it ultimately adds up to something that isn't cheap. And the less expensive material tends to be younger, thinner, what have you.

I don't know enough about the non-bonsai nurseries in the area, but finding landscape material would probably be a good / cheaper way of approaching this. I just don't know who has junipers or black pines. If you find somewhere, I'd love to know about it. But due to the amount of time it takes to grow those, as well, I would be curious as to just how much cheaper they really are.

 

[dbonsaiw]

IA m not sure I follow!! why would it coast any more to grow a 3-4-5 year old tree into a formal/semi formal upright then some of the of the pretzels being sold on line??

The short answer is that bonsai isn't really a good money maker unless they can be mass produced and sold to the bonsai "tourist". It's much easier and more lucrative for sellers to twist younger trees into an "S" and just let them grow out without any real taper, root work or branch work. And they sell. Growing hundreds, if not thousands, of trees to a decent thickness, repotting and cutting back roots yearly/every other year, cutting the trees back and growing new leaders for taper etc. is a fair amount of work and will take considerable time. There's just a much smaller market for trees that run into the thousands of dollars. Just take a look at Brussels' Bonsai for an example - they are selling tons of younger material quickly. The trees in the hundreds of dollars tend to sell, but stay on the site for a bit. The trees in the thousands of dollars are still there almost every time I look.

 

[pandacular]

Yep, basically what rock and dbonsaiw said; this seller had probably 1000 S shaped elms and zelkovas and maybe 50 "true" pieces of bonsai stock. The one I got from the latter collection is very nice however.

 

[coltranem]

It seems like unless I want to buy 1 or 2 year old sapling from traditional nurseries it is not possible to find a formal, informal, twin trunk pre bonsai tree of any kind.

Some of this comes down to what people think we sell and what is popular. There is also a high demand for material. The better stuff goes early and is priced higher.

For example earlier this year NEBG had some nice Procumbens in trainer bonsai pots. There were specimens that could be used for a variety of styles. The were put out for the spring celebration and the good ones were gone that day.

The hobby has grown a lot in the past few years that means less inventory and higher prices.

Retail places in general will be a little pricy do to overhead. If you haven't checked out Facebook auctions that is a good option.

As a final comment the Kaikou Club has their auction first Sunday in August.

 

[coltranem]

As a final comment the Kaikou Club has their auction first Sunday in August

Saturday not Sunday

 

[Dadayama]

I watched a series of videos discussing JBP from seed to Shohin. What started out as twisted corkscrews looked a lot different after several years. Most of the corkscrew gets cut off, from my limited understanding, the twisting helps to develop movement in the trunk for later in life.