why is it impossible to find!!

[Corwyn13]

So I keep looking at my local (2) bonsai places as well as on line,
And I DONT GET IT!?
Why is it IMPOSSIBLE to find a descent specimen of juniper, pine or really any species pre bonsai that is NOT
a semi cascade or twisted into a RIDICULIOUS corkscrew or s curve monstrosity!!?
There is NOT a single Bonsai book, or online site where traditional high-quality trees are displayed or written about that look like this!!

It seems like unless I want to buy 1 or 2 year old sapling from traditional nurseries it is not possible to find a formal, informal, twin trunk pre bonsai tree of any kind.

 

[rockm]

So I keep looking at my local (2) bonsai places as well as on line,
And I DONT GET IT!?
Why is it IMPOSSIBLE to find a descent specimen of juniper, pine or really any species pre bonsai that is NOT
a semi cascade or twisted into a RIDICULIOUS corkscrew or s curve monstrosity!!?
There is NOT a single Bonsai book, or online site where traditional high-quality trees are displayed or written about that look like this!!

It seems like unless I want to buy 1 or 2 year old sapling from traditional nurseries it is not possible to find a formal, informal, twin trunk pre bonsai tree of any kind.

Where are you looking?

 

[pandacular]

I myself love a juniper twisted into a ridiculous corkscrew. Bonus points if the twisting was done by nature instead of man.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

A lot of the less expensive "pre-bonsai" are really just mass-produced mallsai that are either procumbens (that grow naturally in a cascade) or other juniper staked up in an s-pattern.

If you get pre-bonsai from a bonsai nursery... you don't typically see these(?)

 

[badatusernames]

Bonsai West definitely has high quality material, but it’s not free. If you’re facing the parking lot from inside the nursery, look at the area between the building with the pots and the main building. This came from there, and unless there was a major feeding frenzy, there should be a lot more unshaped material like it (larger ones too). They got some stock of some even better stuff this year that should still be kicking around…. But yeah, this was grown specifically for bonsai and your wallet will feel it. Still not bad considering how long it took someone to grow and the extra attention to detail that comes with it.

 

[leatherback]

Why is it IMPOSSIBLE to find a descent specimen of juniper, pine or really any species pre bonsai that is NOT
a semi cascade or twisted into a RIDICULIOUS corkscrew or s curve monstrosity!!?

You look at the wrong store for your material if they do not [also] carry more natural looking material.

 

[Paradox]

So I keep looking at my local (2) bonsai places as well as on line,
And I DONT GET IT!?
Why is it IMPOSSIBLE to find a descent specimen of juniper, pine or really any species pre bonsai that is NOT
a semi cascade or twisted into a RIDICULIOUS corkscrew or s curve monstrosity!!?
There is NOT a single Bonsai book, or online site where traditional high-quality trees are displayed or written about that look like this!!

It seems like unless I want to buy 1 or 2 year old sapling from traditional nurseries it is not possible to find a formal, informal, twin trunk pre bonsai tree of any kind.

I'd also like to know where you are looking.

Someone above mentioned Bonsai West.

New England Bonsai Nursery is also in Bellingham Massachusetts

 

[pandacular]

I went to a bonsai nursery recently that is mostly a wholesaler to garden stores. Effectively a mallsai factory. The guy who runs it, however, is a decent artist, but that's just not a consistent way to make money. As he was walking me around the nursery, he was very careful to basically say "these ones over here are not for a bonsai enthusiast" and was always pointing me towards the much smaller portion of his trees that were truly artfully crafted pre-bonsai. Perhaps the nursery you went to was similar.

The economics of running a nursery makes it nigh impossible for all but the best known to be producing consistently high quality material. High quality material is more expensive, which narrows their market.

 

[hampton]

Bonsai West definitely has high quality material, but it’s not free. If you’re facing the parking lot from inside the nursery, look at the area between the building with the pots and the main building. This came from there, and unless there was a major feeding frenzy, there should be a lot more unshaped material like it (larger ones too). They got some stock of some even better stuff this year that should still be kicking around…. But yeah, this was grown specifically for bonsai and your wallet will feel it. Still not bad considering how long it took someone to grow and the extra attention to detail that comes with it.

View attachment 499059

I was out there a few weeks ago just poking around - may have to stop back by if I don’t find
anything over the weekend

 

[hampton]

Didn’t see you’re in Boston before my first post.

Both NE Bonsai and Bonsai West have material in development. A few weeks ago BW had 25-35 collected larch. I would give them a call and talk to them about what your looking for, I’m sure they’ll be able to help.

 

[badatusernames]

Didn’t see you’re in Boston before my first post.

Both NE Bonsai and Bonsai West have material in development. A few weeks ago BW had 25-35 collected larch. I would give them a call and talk to them about what your looking for, I’m sure they’ll be able to help.

I saw those

Tempting! Trying to avoid buying anything til Nationals though.

 

[badatusernames]

I'd also like to know where you are looking.

Someone above mentioned Bonsai West.

New England Bonsai Nursery is also in Bellingham Massachusetts

I assumed that’s what he meant when he mentioned two but yes! Be sure to check both.

With both, I think they have trees regularly come into stock too as things sell, so if you don’t see something one month you may the next.

 

[Paradox]

I assumed that’s what he meant when he mentioned two but yes! Be sure to check both.

With both, I think they have trees regularly come into stock too as things sell, so if you don’t see something one month you may the next.

I've been to NEBG many times and they tend to carry better pre bonsai than the OP is describing.
Bonsai West I'm sure also carries quality pre bonsai material as well.

I can imagine Boston having some other shops that the OP is referring to as it is a fairly big city and since he calls them "local", Id guess they are more in or around the city proper. They aren't that far but I wouldn't consider NEBG or BW local to Boston.

 

[hampton]

I saw those

Tempting! Trying to avoid buying anything til Nationals though.

I’m in the same boat

 

[Corwyn13]

You look at the wrong store for your material if they do not [also] carry more natural looking material.

I dont want to name names because my intention was not to burn or cause issues, but to have a discussion. But I'm referring to at least a half dozen vendors.

 

[Corwyn13]

Bonsai West definitely has high quality material, but it’s not free. If you’re facing the parking lot from inside the nursery, look at the area between the building with the pots and the main building. This came from there, and unless there was a major feeding frenzy, there should be a lot more unshaped material like it (larger ones too). They got some stock of some even better stuff this year that should still be kicking around…. But yeah, this was grown specifically for bonsai and your wallet will feel it. Still not bad considering how long it took someone to grow and the extra attention to detail that comes with it.

View attachment 499059

yea I know that, and I Do have a couple of trees that are NOT on the cheap meter by any means. HOWEVER I am referring to the less expensive pre bonsai trees which I am interested in because part of my enjoyment of the hobby is to follow the development of the tree

 

[Sansokuu]

Come to Oregon/the PNW to shop. We got conifers coming out our ears. We just sold our colorado spruce to someone who lives in your neck of the woods.

 

[Corwyn13]

Bonsai West definitely has high quality material, but it’s not free. If you’re facing the parking lot from inside the nursery, look at the area between the building with the pots and the main building. This came from there, and unless there was a major feeding frenzy, there should be a lot more unshaped material like it (larger ones too). They got some stock of some even better stuff this year that should still be kicking around…. But yeah, this was grown specifically for bonsai and your wallet will feel it. Still not bad considering how long it took someone to grow and the extra attention to detail that comes with it.

View attachment 499059

I'd also like to know where you are looking.

Someone above mentioned Bonsai West.

New England Bonsai Nursery is also in Bellingham Massachusetts

I have been to both of those places and have purchased trees from them that were on the higher end ( and maybe that's part of another discussion on what newbies should expect from "pre-bonsai" and what they should expect to pay for them.

 

[Corwyn13]

I went to a bonsai nursery recently that is mostly a wholesaler to garden stores. Effectively a mallsai factory. The guy who runs it, however, is a decent artist, but that's just not a consistent way to make money. As he was walking me around the nursery, he was very careful to basically say "these ones over here are not for a bonsai enthusiast" and was always pointing me towards the much smaller portion of his trees that were truly artfully crafted pre-bonsai. Perhaps the nursery you went to was similar.

The economics of running a nursery makes it nigh impossible for all but the best known to be producing consistently high quality material. High quality material is more expensive, which narrows their market.

IA m not sure I follow!! why would it coast any more to grow a 3-4-5 year old tree into a formal/semi formal upright then some of the of the pretzels being sold on line??

 

[rockm]

IA m not sure I follow!! why would it coast any more to grow a 3-4-5 year old tree into a formal/semi formal upright then some of the of the pretzels being sold on line??

Because online sellers and mallsai sellers deal in volume. The twisted trees so common with them are a result of buyer preference. Those pretzel trees are sold by the thousands to buyers who don't understand or care much about bonsai. They're sold to folks who are looking for decor inside, for the most part. The twisted trees fit their perception of "mystical bonsai." The trees ultimately die in a few months.

Not true for more carefully grown stock for more knowledgeable buyers who are looking for material with a more critical eye. The stock for that takes longer and more effort to develop.