Who has killed more trees than they have on their benches?
- Thread starter M. Frary
- Start date
Soldano666
Omono
Count me in. Voles, Harry repots where I went a little too hard. Styling trees that we already in poor health, not repotting soon enough and soil stayed too wet. Hopefully I'm getting better and stop losing them as much.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I wish I had pics of all the trees I have killed over the years. It's well over 50, including an imported $400 Korean hornbeam that I bought from Chase Rosade. It took me a while to kill the thing, as I was repotting it every year or so for ten years or so. Finally weakened to the point of no return. I have also killed almost every conifer I have had, from various kinds of Japanese junipers, Scots, JBP and JWP too. I'm far too aggressive with conifers, having worked deciduous trees for so long.
it's that Korean hornbeam that I miss the most. It was a pretty damn good tree that taught me some stuff along the way.
it's that Korean hornbeam that I miss the most. It was a pretty damn good tree that taught me some stuff along the way.
No no, sorry for not being clear enough: I didn't throw away freshly collected yamadori trees, neither i've thrown mature ones, with maybe 2 or 3 exceptions. I abandoned trees that i had carried over a few years and i lost interesting on them for specific reasons. Mostly very young trees, my first collected trees, seedlings, like 3 - 6 years (+ add 5 - 8 years in my possetion) old beech, oak, hawthorn and hornbeam trees with no moving, no character. I never throw away freshly collected yamadori , especially not some older ones with bigger and mature looking trunks, i really don't mind throwing away very young trees though: they simply don't grow fast enough in pots. I've learned during these years that collecting a very young trees for bonsai purpose is such a waisting of time, at least in my case. Also have in mind that 99%+ of young oaks and more than 90% of young beech trees won't reach maturity in nature. I am not a barbarian who who would dig up a huge and very old yamadori and then abandon it just a few days later
Anyway you can be 100% sure that i won't touch young trees any more (unless some very rare species which is hard or impossible to get from nature and are only available through nursery) so no more intentional kills from my dirty hands.
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
No no, sorry for not being clear enough: I didn't throw away freshly collected yamadori trees, neither i've thrown mature ones, with maybe 2 or 3 exceptions. I abandoned trees that i had carried over a few years and i lost interesting on them for specific reasons. Mostly very young trees, my first collected trees, seedlings, like 3 - 6 years (+ add 5 - 8 years in my possetion) old beech, oak, hawthorn and hornbeam trees with no moving, no character. I never throw away freshly collected yamadori , especially not some older ones with bigger and mature looking trunks, i really don't mind throwing away very young trees though: they simply don't grow fast enough in pots. I've learned during these years that collecting a very young trees for bonsai purpose is such a waisting of time, at least in my case. Also have in mind that 99%+ of young oaks and more than 90% of young beech trees won't reach maturity in nature. I am not a barbarian who who would dig up a huge and very old yamadori and then abandon it just a few days later
This is exactly why I don't recommend collecting to beginners as way to get "free" material. I'm not being specifically critical, here. This is not an uncommon approach to collecting. There is no real reason to dig up sapling or seedling trees from the wild. They wind up being mostly a nuisance and time suck. Collecting should be done to get mature trees, not three year old saplings.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Ah, ok. This is why correct use of terminology is important. Yamadori is more than just a plant growing somewhere. It refers to trees with age & character
Mike Corazzi
Masterpiece
...I.... have not killed them. They conspired against me and rebelled and martyred themselves. 
namnhi
Masterpiece
I lost a few Japanese maples and a couple Japanese Black Pines. Maples is hard for us to keep down here. Black pine probably died from fungus needle cast. I feel good to not seeing them struggled on my bench.
A. Gorilla
Omono
Me. Listing them would be impractical.
Timarsen
Seedling
The only trees I have that are alive, lived because I learned all the ways you could kill them first. RIP, those poor early experiments, you never really stood a chance 
Clicio
Masterpiece
Well, all NZ Teatrees (tried many of them), almost all my Azaleas (due to hard water, now I am sure of it), some Calliandras, Maples and a big Nishiki Black Mastu because of the heat in the summer, and more small trees than I dare to remember.
Not being an assassin lately, lucky I guess.
Not being an assassin lately, lucky I guess.
If I kill them, I kill them fast
Many of the trees I kill struggled due to our harsh growing conditions - desert dry heat combined with extremely alkaline water. After I put up shade cloth and started to acidify my water, my mortality rates dropped considerably.
How do you acidify your water? Any tips you can share. That has been my problem here in Las Vegas, due to hard water.
Paulpash
Masterpiece
It was a bit of a bloodbath for me in the early days as I got into growing stuff in the garden and digging it up with no real clue about when to dig or how aggressive I could be with each species.
As there was no one to ask the casualties were high and the learning curve shallow - I was treating a Hawthorn or Pine like a Hornbeam and they would just die slowly over early Spring. Gradually, the penny dropped and I began to figure out the easy ones and to go softer on others.
Next calamity was reading about inorganic substrate and stupidly trying to grow nice trees in pure LECA. Most got cooked in the Summer as the water just poured through the lightweight aggregate.
My most recent heavy loss was in the Winter of 2010 where temperatures were the coldest in my lifetime. 5 or 6 specimen Acers and another dozen trees including a lovely Korean Hornbeam bit the dust. I'm guessing they were worth about 10 grand I nearly quit the hobby that Spring.
I don't kill much these days because I have learned patience and to tolerate 'imperfection' by allowing the trees to get strong. Reading vigor is probably one of the most important skills you can acquire. Paradoxically, going slow is often the fastest way to get a nice looking tree.
As there was no one to ask the casualties were high and the learning curve shallow - I was treating a Hawthorn or Pine like a Hornbeam and they would just die slowly over early Spring. Gradually, the penny dropped and I began to figure out the easy ones and to go softer on others.
Next calamity was reading about inorganic substrate and stupidly trying to grow nice trees in pure LECA. Most got cooked in the Summer as the water just poured through the lightweight aggregate.
My most recent heavy loss was in the Winter of 2010 where temperatures were the coldest in my lifetime. 5 or 6 specimen Acers and another dozen trees including a lovely Korean Hornbeam bit the dust. I'm guessing they were worth about 10 grand
I nearly quit the hobby that Spring. I don't kill much these days because I have learned patience and to tolerate 'imperfection' by allowing the trees to get strong. Reading vigor is probably one of the most important skills you can acquire. Paradoxically, going slow is often the fastest way to get a nice looking tree.
Woocash
Omono
This thread is heartbreaking. I guess when you have so many passing through your hands they can become ships in the night, but trees you work on for years and invest the time in will become friends eventually. Wouldn’t be good to lose them, especially if it’s just a long goodbye.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Yeah, it CAN be heartbreaking, but it's also part of the process. Most trees are killed by owners in their first five or six years. I killed dozens learning how to meet the horticultural needs, while trying to get a handle on the artistic. It's a balancing act.
Those initial losses can teach a tremendous amount if you listen. The losses are generally lower grade material, so its not like you've killed a 100 year old pine (unless you've made the mistake of going out and digging one up with a year's experience doing bonsai.)
As the years progress, losses drop off. Some people get very adept at handling, or better, forestalling difficulties with their trees. That said, sometimes, you get a harsh winter, or a soggy spring and a tree you've been working for a while, kicks off. It's sad, but it happens.
The best thing to stop losses is to limit how many trees you have. It is very easy at the beginning to want "one of everything." Beginners and even intermediate bonsaiists generally have too many trees. The more experienced growers don't. Most of them (unless you have acres of land and are retired with the time) limit their collections to under two dozen trees. Those trees, however, are usually good to excellent.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
If you figure this one out please document! Hey @grouper52 is Dan having any luck getting his into pots successfully yet?
And I suppose my count is not quite even I think I have about 45 currently, but have not killed quite that many. I've certainly sold or given away far more than that number... I've only killed a few really good ones that I can think of most of the other kills were crap anyway. But there were a couple that I lost that still hurt. And a couple that I sold that new ownership killed, ouch too.
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penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I knew that killing trees was part of the process but I am still amazed that everyone reports such high rates. I have not had experiences anything like these reported except for seedlings. (and cuttings if they count) Out of about 200 trees in training I lost maybe 5 this year and they were from doing too much at one time.
Now cactus are different. It has rained so much the past two years that I have lost several. I have had to change my planting mix.
Now cactus are different. It has rained so much the past two years that I have lost several. I have had to change my planting mix.
Woocash
Omono
I’m sure. As a novice you just want to dive in, I know I do, and learn as much as you can, as quickly as you can. Learning + speed = more trees! Then the casualties become inevitable, I suppose.
I live on a boat, however, so I will be inevitably limited by available roof space. I’m nearly as concerned with death by exposure / falling in as death by human. Thinking of some sort of low profile shade cloth / wind break concoction.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Maybe you start with different material, have been lucky. I find most of my trees die when on holidays (watering issues) and when I go against better judgement and try to do something too soon. Naturally, freshly dug trees are also a high mortality group. Once established and past initial rootwork most trees survive if properly watered
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