What's the point of buying quality root shears?

You seem to know a lot about steel in general. How do you even know which brand uses which steel though, since it's rarely mentioned? I'd also read that Stainless is more brittle, chips easier, and because of this and in general is harder to sharpen. So I thought stainless would be better kept away from soil particles which might chip it, and because it needs sharpening more often anyway. Plus I'm not worried about rust, so unless I could find something with HSS I think I'd prefer carbon.
Either way I'd love to order something japanese but after seeing the shipping fees from Kaneshin I think I'll have to stay domestic (EU in my case), which also severely limits my options I think. In my country the only brands I can find with Stainless are Ryuga and Matsu, and Hananomai but that's way out of my budget, especially for root shears

Most good tool producers will tell you what steel is used. But with stainless, it can be a bit murky; sometimes, only "stainless" will be specified, and this can mean a dozen different types of steel. So I would try to stick to manufacturers who tell you what the steel is. If you see something like "Hitachi/Yasugi high-carbon stainless steel" this is likely one of two steels, ginsan aka silver paper steel, or SLD. For brand new tools, SLD seems more common. If you find older stock somewhere, it might be ginsan (I spend a lot of time on the Japanese auction sites, where it's more common). SLD is a variant of D2, which is a cold die tool steel, so it's something like a mid-point between simple high-carbon steel and HSS - a tool steel meant to cut other metals, but not at high speeds.

As to which steels are more brittle, easier to chip, etc, this can get pretty complex and usually depends on how well they are heat-treated. That said, high-carbon steels, especially Hitachi white steel, which is the most common steel used for Japanese tools, are typically considered brittle. That's one of the reasons that a softer backing steel or iron is used in the typical Japanese laminated construction. The soft steel (jigane) helps to add toughness to the tool, which the hard, brittle steel (hagane) lacks. By a skilled blacksmith, white paper steel #1 (the purest variety) can be forged in such a way that it is hard (63-65 hrc), can get extremely sharp, is relatively easy to sharpen, and is quite durable. But the range for forging and properly heat-treating white steel #1 is quite small and difficult to hit; really only the master blacksmiths, most of whom are no longer with us, were able to do it consistently. You can still buy white #1 tools, but if they were made in the last decade or two, chances are the heat-treatment is dubious, and they may be very brittle and chippy. When it comes to woodworking chisels, you can usually grind back the first 1/8" of the blade and find more stable steel. With scissors, this is impractical, though. So if you want good, traditional high-carbon Japanese tools, I would recommend trying to find vintage ones from the 70s-80s or so, when all those great blacksmiths were in their prime.

Anyway, most inexpensive, high-carbon Japanese tools you can easily find from US retailers (for example, Wazakura) use cheap steel like S58C or S55C, which are not great tool steels and will be somewhat brittle and prone to chipping while having poor edge retention and rust resistance. The main thing these have going for them is you can get them in 2 days on Amazon Prime, otherwise...

Usually, the problem with (cheap) stainless is not that it's brittle, but that it's soft and won't take or hold an edge. In terms of brittleness, Ginsan is the closest stainless steel to the traditional high-carbon Hitachi Japanese steels, so you can expect it to be moderately brittle. I haven't personally noticed ginsan being more brittle than white steel, for example. But I would treat it like a standard high-carbon steel. Don't push it too hard or try to cut thick branches with it, and don't cut anything dirty, sandy, or abrasive.

More modern or higher-end stainless steels are often tougher and less likely to chip than simple carbon steels (steels with only iron and carbon). Modern stainless steels use a combination of alloys to increase the toughness, edge retention, and rust resistance, producing steel that is better in most ways than high-carbon steel. The only real drawback to using modern alloyed stainless steels is that they tend to take longer to sharpen. However, scissors are usually pretty fast to sharpen, and if the steel holds an edge longer, you don't need to sharpen as often. The difference is more evident in other cases, for example, if you have a kitchen knife you need to thin (grind back significantly), that's where you'll feel it. But unless you're reprofiling your scissors or grinding back huge chips, you shouldn't notice it. Even the high-end stainless steels are usually only a little harder to sharpen than high-carbon, a couple of notches below the pain that HSS can be. Good stainless steel is typically more expensive, too, but you get what you pay for.

Most people have an allergic reaction to stainless steel because they've used cheap knives made with 410 or some similarly garbage steel. This stuff is butter-soft (literally only good for butter knives) and can not hold an edge to save its life. 420 is better, but it is still an entry level steel. When we get up to 440b/c or so, this is where decent stainless tool steel starts. Tianbonsai's "Master Craftsman" series uses 9Cr25, which is roughly equivalent to 440, but made in China rather than Japan. SLD should be better than 440. If you want better than that, you get into various exotic alloyed stainless steels like colbalt-infused ATS-314, which is more common in hairdressing scissors. And super stainless steels like CPM-Magnacut and various forms of HSS, which are more difficult to find in scissors form.

If you want to go on a deeper dive, have a look at: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10...ness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/

Specifically, if you want to know which steels can hold an edge for a long time, look at this chart:
CATRA-edge-retention-8-23-2022.webp

The simple high-carbon steels are towards the bottom, and as you go up, you get into HSS and various forms of quality stainless steels. They don't have white steel on here, but you can see Hitachi Blue Super around 340, roughly on par with 420 stainless, and A8 is in that range too. Then 440C is up a notch higher than that, and D2, which should perform similarly to SLD, is a notch further up, near M2, the most common type of HSS. ATS-314 should be somewhere around here, too, being something like an improved version of VG10. Things get kind of crazy above that, but it's not relevant unless you're willing to spend hundreds (or thousands) of dollars on hairdressing scissors.

I've been putting together a list to keep track of some of the popular or easy-to-find brands in the US. This isn't exhaustive or complete, but should give you an idea. Some of the hardness figures here are estimated based on the working range for these steels, while others are from the manufacturer's specs.

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@RozendaalArts
On Aliexpress you can buy Tian Bonsai tools which are great quality at a very reasonable price.
When ordering from Aliexpress you don't have to worry about VAT anymore (because you already paid it on check out).

Tian Bonsai produces tools for many other brands (like Ryuga, see this topic).
I ordered some Tian tools recently, and the prices on their site were half (or less) than what they were on Aliexpress. So I would check both before ordering. This was in USD, so I fully expect to get hit with stupid tariffs, but the final price should still be considerably lower when buying directly from their website for me or anyone in the US. There was an additional discount because I ordered a handful of things, too.

Speaking of Tainbonsai, I have checked every brand and retailer that I can think of in Japan for branch and root cutters etc, looking for stainless, high-durability steel, and couldn't find anything better than 9Cr25/440 from any company in Japan. So that's where I'll be buying all my concave cutters and such from now on. If anyone is curious, I can report back on how well they hold up.
 
The key is the care. Learn to sharpen, strop and oil your scissors and they will last an incredibly long period of time.
It should go without saying, but the advantage to stainless steels that hold an edge for a long time is that you don't need to have an obsessive compulsive care regimen to keep them cutting. Just use them and move on with your life. No need to treat them like a fragile little egg to perform the bare minimum of work.
 
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Actually folks don’t win points by posting off handed comments on the forum. If you have a different opinion and have properly stated the facts, folks on BN are smart enough to make an intelligent choice.

You are partly correct, stainless steel’s edge does hold up a bit longer and most will not rust easily. However they also are decidedly harder to sharpen.

Best
DSD sends
 
Actually folks don’t win points by posting off handed comments on the forum. If you have a different opinion and have properly stated the facts, folks on BN are smart enough to make an intelligent choice.

You are partly correct, stainless steel’s edge does hold up a bit longer and most will not rust easily. However they also are decidedly harder to sharpen.

Best
DSD sends

You don't need to sharpen as often, so the time difference is largely moot. Consider total time over the life of the tool rather than time per session. If you're having difficulty sharpening stainless or alloy steels, consider using a different abrasive, as this can considerably speed up the process. Most inexpensive synthetic whetstones don't cut abrasion-resistant steel very well. But you can make quick work of it with a cheap set of diamond paddles, which handle SS easily and even HSS. I love my Naniwa Chosera stones, which are designed for HSS, but a set of those would be overkill for most people (they're great if you have a bunch of other tools to sharpen, though). There are some less expensive options for SS if you like whetstones, too. Like the Shapton Pro line, but that's an entirely different rabbit hole to go down.

Technique is important too. When sharpening, you want to focus more effort/put pressure on the cutting edge or apex, which is significantly harder with Japanese laminated tools. You don't need or want to put even pressure on the entire bevel face, as you'll remove a disproportionate amount of the softer steel layer and change the bevel face angle over time - slowly working towards a shallower angle and more brittle edge. If you're in a rush, you can raise the tool a degree or two on your stones and grind a micro bevel as well. This will work the face angle in the opposite direction, which is less of a problem as it produces a more durable (but less keen) edge. This can be a good technique if you need to quickly work past a chipped edge, just be careful not to raise the angle progressively each time you sharpen.
 
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Sorry to spam this thread, but the question of how to tell what kind of steel is used has come up a couple of times, so here are some tips:
  1. Read the details/specs on the product listing; sometimes they will list it explicitly.
  2. Check the packaging, often it will say on the front or back (see examples below). Paste the images into Google Translate or use the Translate app on your phone to take a picture.
  3. Check the stamps on the tool if you have clear photos. Sometimes, along with the brand name and/or name of the smith, they will print the steel type on the tool itself. Common characters that you might see: (shirogami, white steel), (aogami, blue steel), (ginsan, silver steel), ハイス (high-speed steel), ステンレス (stainless steel), 安来 (Yasugi/Hitachi), (paper, often written like: 白紙, white paper steel). If you're searching on Japanese websites, these characters can be useful to know as well.
  4. Email the store if you’re still unsure. They may be able to tell you. The stores that stock them are usually not experts on steel, so they may not be able to tell you anything other than what is shown on the box.
  5. If the manufacturer has a website, you may be able to email them and ask too, but it can be difficult to find contact information if you’re not a native Japanese speaker. Many Japanese tools are sold through wholesale brands, not directly by the blacksmith, so they may have limited information.
With vintage/used items, it can be tricky. But you can generally tell the basics by looking at it. If it has a black/blue oxide finish or is rusted to hell, it’s likely high-carbon or a reactive alloy steel like Hitachi blue. If it has a silver finish, it’s usually stainless steel. Though stainless doesn’t mean rust-proof, so used SS tools often have some surface rust too. And you'll see used tool sellers take wire wheels and strip all the finish off high-carbon tools, which can sometimes make them look like stainless. But these are usually poorly done jobs that are easy to spot.

Vintage ikebana scissors in Hitachi Ginsan/Silver III stainless steel. On the back of the box, it tells us what type of steel is used for the cutting edge. Yasugi is the Yasugi Works factory that produces Hitachi's steel.
ginsan.jpg
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Hitachi SLD stainless steel. This one is easy since it says SLD on the yellow sticker.
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