What would you pay for this wisteria

[eugenev2]

So this wisteria is going on a auction locally. It's 85cm tall and about 30 years old. And as i'm slowly starting to look at getting older or better material. I would like to know opinions and what you would pay for something like this

 

[MMJNICE]

Hmmmm maybe 7 to 800 dollars seems respectable but I have no idea what the bonsai scene is like in south Africa. Can you import tree's from other countries easily? If so then I would cut that price in half. Not that I'm an expert by any means. The most I've ever paid for a tree is 400 bucks.

 

[SeanS]

I wouldn’t buy it.
Although wisteria are cool (I’m not really a fan though) they are a bit of a novelty. I really wouldn’t be adding this wisteria (or any wisteria) to my benches if I was wanting to start adding better trees.
Stick to the staples; JBP, maples, shimpaku, maybe some crab apples. Just because you’ve got itchy fingers and some cash don’t go baulking at the first expensive tree that comes your way.
This ties in nicely to your recent thread about joining a club to level up your game.
My advice would be to focus your efforts on building out a decent collection of the common trees used in high level bonsai. They’re common for a reason; they are tried and tested and become high quality trees if the correct well known techniques are applied over time.
I have 30-40 tridents, 30-40 JM, 15 or so JBP, a handful of Ume, a couple of ginkgos, a selection of junipers, 10 flowering quince, as many crabapples, 10 Chinese quince, etc.
I have zero indigenous trees, no acacias, no BC, no once-off nursery finds that kind of looked cool. Stick to the basics and focus all your efforts on building out a great collection of common bonsai species.

Just my R0.02

 

[Cadillactaste]

Don't let the blooms fool ya. Many hide these outside of bloom. I have a Wisteria. You have to let them run early spring. I won't allow it on my bench with my other trees. So I don't have to worry about the rest being tangled in it's vines. I don't love mine... but, it fills a place on a landing coming up to my main deck. So I keep it.

But do you like it outside of blooms? Or are you buying it for the blooms.

If it speaks to you. Then that's the true call. I don't let others persuade a sale. I buy what I like. I've bought some ugly things over the years that early on. Ones didn't understand. But I loved them...from day one.

But Wisteria is a tree many hide outside of bloom. They also are finicky for some to bloom.

 

[eugenev2]

I wouldn’t buy it.
Although wisteria are cool (I’m not really a fan though) they are a bit of a novelty. I really wouldn’t be adding this wisteria (or any wisteria) to my benches if I was wanting to start adding better trees.
Stick to the staples; JBP, maples, shimpaku, maybe some crab apples. Just because you’ve got itchy fingers and some cash don’t go baulking at the first expensive tree that comes your way.
This ties in nicely to your recent thread about joining a club to level up your game.
My advice would be to focus your efforts on building out a decent collection of the common trees used in high level bonsai. They’re common for a reason; they are tried and tested and become high quality trees if the correct well known techniques are applied over time.
I have 30-40 tridents, 30-40 JM, 15 or so JBP, a handful of Ume, a couple of ginkgos, a selection of junipers, 10 flowering quince, as many crabapples, 10 Chinese quince, etc.
I have zero indigenous trees, no acacias, no BC, no once-off nursery finds that kind of looked cool. Stick to the basics and focus all your efforts on building out a great collection of common bonsai species.

Just my R0.02

So not really an itch, it's more of a knowledge gaining, market research of sorts...not my tree and no affiliation, just trying to figure out what people base there tree buying criteria on and how it affects their idea of the price.
So for context when i restarted this hobby 4 years ago i made myself a deal that i won't spend any "real" money on a tree until i've spend 5 years doing bonsai which would coincide with a big-ish birthday, so as this date is approach next year i've decided to start getting a feel on what people pay and whether my view of it is wrong...as i've been called cheap on multiple occasions...i prefer frugal...but semantics i guess. I've been know to research the crap out of buying tech and probably most purchases, but this is closer to art which in my mind has never been a rational purchase. If you take the recent example of auctions, where i realized i probably needed to change my point of view is when relatively fat base trident maples where going for about $350, personally i though it was expensive until i did the math and factored in that $23 a year for 15 years worth of work is not much for the seller...ie not getting rich on these tree sales.
Another part of the reason why i'm considering getting material that are further along ie possibly 25/30 years, is that by the time any of my own trees are 25 to 30 years old there is a high likelihood that that i won't be around anymore. So there is a exceedingly high probability that i won't ever be able to practice certain techniques or "complete" some of my trees, never be able to appreciate them as true bonsai.

Realistically i will probably buy a tree for 1/4 of the price this one is going for, but i need to know at what levels my expectations should be

Hmmmm maybe 7 to 800 dollars seems respectable but I have no idea what the bonsai scene is like in south Africa. Can you import tree's from other countries easily? If so then I would cut that price in half. Not that I'm an expert by any means. The most I've ever paid for a tree is 400 bucks.

Yes we can import, but it's a bit of a pain. The scene is part of my reason for posting this

 

[SeanS]

So not really an itch, it's more of a knowledge gaining, market research of sorts...not my tree and no affiliation, just trying to figure out what people base there tree buying criteria on and how it affects their idea of the price.
So for context when i restarted this hobby 4 years ago i made myself a deal that i won't spend any "real" money on a tree until i've spend 5 years doing bonsai which would coincide with a big-ish birthday, so as this date is approach next year i've decided to start getting a feel on what people pay and whether my view of it is wrong...as i've been called cheap on multiple occasions...i prefer frugal...but semantics i guess. I've been know to research the crap out of buying tech and probably most purchases, but this is closer to art which in my mind has never been a rational purchase. If you take the recent example of auctions, where i realized i probably needed to change my point of view is when relatively fat base trident maples where going for about $350, personally i though it was expensive until i did the math and factored in that $23 a year for 15 years worth of work is not much for the seller...ie not getting rich on these tree sales.
Another part of the reason why i'm considering getting material that are further along ie possibly 25/30 years, is that by the time any of my own trees are 25 to 30 years old there is a high likelihood that that i won't be around anymore. So there is a exceedingly high probability that i won't ever be able to practice certain techniques or "complete" some of my trees, never be able to appreciate them as true bonsai.

Realistically i will probably buy a tree for 1/4 of the price this one is going for, but i need to know at what levels my expectations should be

Yes we can import, but it's a bit of a pain. The scene is part of my reason for posting this

The fat tridents Terry was selling in the last auction were pretty reasonable for the size and quality. I’ve seen a few in person and they’re good value for money. I’d much sooner but one of those than that wisteria.

 

[eugenev2]

The fat tridents Terry was selling in the last auction were pretty reasonable for the size and quality. I’ve seen a few in person and they’re good value for money. I’d much sooner but one of those than that wisteria.

One of the trees @SeanS is referring to, it sold for about $340/350. I must say, it was tempting. But i'm not good at making these kinds of decisions in 30 seconds or less...and considering i've only seen this pic and no other reference

 

[mattspinniken]

If someone can get me a Wisteria of this quality in the US for under $1000 please let me know! I think this tree is worth over 2k here. In Michigan a tree like this would be very hard to find, but I agree that a Wisteria is not a good tree for a beginner. I reallly just thought it would be fun to have in the garden for the flowers.

 

[Ruddigger]

About 400. I bought a much larger one for 500.

 

[pandacular]

I like the idea of doing this sort of market study. At our last club auction, a friend and student of my teacher sat with me and we placed target bids on each tree, basically what we thought they would go for. It was a fun exercise, and we definitely got better as the auction went on. We also learned a good deal about the relative value of species. To @SeanS ‘s point, we noticed a significantly higher valuation of traditional Japanese species, though not unilaterally.

 

[SeanS]

It sold for $650 US (R11500, South African rands)

 

[eugenev2]

Hmmmm maybe 7 to 800 dollars seems respectable but I have no idea what the bonsai scene is like in south Africa. Can you import tree's from other countries easily? If so then I would cut that price in half. Not that I'm an expert by any means. The most I've ever paid for a tree is 400 bucks.

I guess this makes @MMJNICE the winner as he was the closest. Thanks for all the opinions and insights. I hope to find a more traditional species and see whether @pandacular observation holds true

 

[Cadillactaste]

If someone can get me a Wisteria of this quality in the US for under $1000 please let me know! I think this tree is worth over 2k here. In Michigan a tree like this would be very hard to find, but I agree that a Wisteria is not a good tree for a beginner. I reallly just thought it would be fun to have in the garden for the flowers.

That's what I thought...but let them wake...and I have to two step in spring in a pot. I dislike it a lot. In leaf wild...they are a lot of commodity in the greenhouse. In the ground...there ya go. No dancing.

 

[mattspinniken]

That's what I thought...but let them wake...and I have to two step in spring in a pot. I dislike it a lot. In leaf wild...they are a lot of commodity in the greenhouse. In the ground...there ya go. No dancing.

Yep, I do have one in the ground, I suppose I should just be happy with that. Andrew Robson posted a few that had me second guessing though.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Yep, I do have one in the ground, I suppose I should just be happy with that. Andrew Robson posted a few that had me second guessing though.

Well... you won't be the first or the last to own one in a pot. I have a bipolar spring. My night Temps don't truly level out until June. Sooooo... as it's quite an unruly mess dragging in for protection. I see it for the pain in my side. Every spring. That truly is why I don't overly have a strong love for it. That said...it has a perfect spot on the landing coming up on the main deck. Guests love it there. So... I've kept mine. It fills the space nicely.

 

[Gabler]

Wisteria is a noxious weed. Most people I know would pay to get rid of it.

 

[leatherback]

Keep in mind prices do not compare between continents and sometimes countries. So market research on a USA dominated website might translate poorly for you locally.

I have a wisteria that size, with a bit less ramification, granted, for 100E a few years back. 350 got me a beast of 1 1/2 foot base here.
It is all about fashion, demand and availability which varies a lot from place to place..

 

[rockm]

This all depends on location and availability. Personally, this one has some issues. Nice front, but the back shows significant rot and the trunk is compromised. Looks to have some healing, but that is always going to be a problem.

Wisteria is extremely common here in Va. It's invasive and grows like a weed. There are literally thousands of in ground plants in the woods behind me. I can get pretty large, nice examples if I wanted to (and have over the years). This one is farther along in the development process with developed secondary branching. It also produces flowers--both up its price. I'd say it's in the $400-$500 range.

All that said, wisteria is a huge pain in the rear end to deal with day to day. It grows fast and grabs onto everything around it for most of its time in active growth. Blooms are nice, but last only a couple of weeks, then it's back to looking like an aggressive haystack that sucks up water and tries to get out of its pot.

The one below is an example I've had my eye on for a while in the undergrowth of the wooded lot near me. Getting it out would be a circus and would only be the beginning of a lot more work that I'm not excited about.

 

[Dabbler]

It's a nice Tree/vine but make sure you know how to handle those guys as spending that much, or any tree, and having it lose it bonsai aspects or losing the tree is a real downer