What should I do with this thin Dawn Redwood, how do I thicken the trunk?

[AnjTO]

I have this really tall 6 foot tall Dawn Redwood - Gold Rush that I bought in the spring from a nursery.

Ever since then it's become increasingly taller and one side really put on some growth for some odd reason. I think it's quite stunning and everyone that has seen it loves it.

However, it's pencil thin. I took out the stake in the middle and it's not able to support itself so I reattached it and put another stake to keep it standing.

How do I make it so that the trunk gets wider? I heard that you're not supposed to prune young trees until they're established because it will stunt their growth. I'm also conflicted whether I should plant it in the ground because I was thinking it may grow insanely fast and the height and the roots will grow out of control. What do you guys think?

I appreciate the help!

 

[19Mateo83]

Welcome to the nut house! You can fatten Dawn redwoods very similarly to how you fatten a bald cypress. Put the pot in a water dish and keep the water abou15- 25% the height of the root ball and keep feeding it fish emulsion. This should help it thicken. You can see the difference in my two. These came from the same batch from the same store. When I bought the first one they were all the same size. The one on the left was purchased 30 days ago and has been kept as mentioned above. The one on the right was purchased last week. I believe they are the same type as yours. I think they call them “amber glow” here.

 

[RKatzin]

My plan for these and also bald cypress and western larch is I nip the top to curtail upward growth and let the branches grow out to fatten the trunk. It takes some time, 5-10yrs, but eventually you'll get there. Only real option is to buy a bigger trunk at the nursery. Prices go up accordingly, but you get a leg up on the trunk developments.
I've never done the water bath setup, but I can see how it might work as well.

 

[Ininaatigoons]

I keep forgetting just how much certain trees LOVE water! I need to get mine in a set up like this! One issue with Metasequoia and Taxodium is their fast and woody root growth. If they are in nursery grow pots the roots will circle and circle making a serious problem in the future. One option for grow pits I have found is Cement Mixing tubs.

 

[19Mateo83]

I keep forgetting just how much certain trees LOVE water! I need to get mine in a set up like this! One issue with Metasequoia and Taxodium is their fast and woody root growth. If they are in nursery grow pots the roots will circle and circle making a serious problem in the future. One option for grow pits I have found is Cement Mixing tubs.

Like this? I haven’t gotten a tub yet for the dawns, I want to do them in larger round tubs.

 

[AJL]

Best way to fatten them up is definately to ground grow them .If they are weak and need staking just use a short stake and tie them low down so they can still flex in the wind, which also encourages thickening, till they are strong enough to stand on their own, then wean them off the stake in a couple of years.
Keep them well fed and watered and mulch around them to suppress weeds and conserve soil moisture. You should then get plenty of strong growth and you can chop them back hard when youre ready to lift and pot the tree in a few years time. In my experience Metasequoia dont seem to mind being cut back hard and will back- bud readily, the additional benefit is you can then plant the prunings and start a Metasequoia forest as they root quite easily!!

 

[andrewiles]

DRs grow very agressively and fatten quite fast. If you're in this for the longer haul and want to make a nice bonsai you need to add character and taper to the lower trunk at the same time you fatten it. Otherwise you'll have to chop a fat tree at some point and will have a challenge with hiding that cut.

If it were my tree I'd chop it next spring a few inches above the lowest healthy buds (above the graft). Or if you want to try to save the top, air layer the top rather than chopping it. Gold Rush may be hard to root though...

After the chop you'll get very agressive growth next year at the apical buds. I'd just let it grow out all year. Then the following spring I'd repot it, reducing the roots by 50% or more and placing it on a board to encourage lateral root growth. Use a 15" x 15" x 5" Anderson deep propagation flat or similar to force the tree (and you) to focus on lateral roots. DRs can take agressive bare root repotting like champs. Then let it grow all season untouched. At year 3 you can restart that two year chop/root prune process, each time chopping a bit futher up the tree.

It can be really hard to cut down a nice tree like this, but it's usually necessary if you want taper and trunk movement.

P.S. If you can find Amber Glow it's another great yellow cultivar with the added benefit that it's easier to air layer and seems healthy on its own roots. Means you can avoid the graft, which often remains visible even as the trees age.

 

[AnjTO]

I appreciate the responses guys, these were all good advice. I've taken note.

Perhaps I will plant it on the ground with a flat rock on the bottom to prevent deep roots, since I will be pulling it out in the future. Is this a good idea?

If it were my tree I'd chop it next spring a few inches above the lowest healthy buds (above the graft). Or if you want to try to save the top, air layer the top rather than chopping it. Gold Rush may be hard to root though...

Is this variety known for being hard to root? I've actually trimmed the longest branch a bit to see if I can propagate it through cuttings and I heard Dawn Redwoods were easier to root compared to Japanese Maples(which I've attempted before).

Does Gold Rush grow successfully off its own roots?

What's the advantage of growing it on a graft once it is rooted out?

Many thanks.

 

[andrewiles]

Dawn Redwoods from the plain species are very easy to root. But some of the cultivars not so much. I tried air layering a Gold Rush last year without success. Trying another this year. I've had success air layering and rooting (from cuttings) Amber Glow, which is why I mentioned it earlier.

Others may have had more success with Gold Rush.

Most nursery-sold cultivars these days are grafted for consistency, convienence and cost (e.g. every Japanese maple). But many do grow fine on their own roots. Only bonsai people care about this. Sometimes a graft is not a problem because it's not visible, but often with Dawn Redwoods the graft is quite visible. I think with Gold Rush, for example, the bark differs a bit from the plain species. Maybe that goes away with time.

Yeah, planting it on a rock is a good way to force lateral roots, though you'll want to get the rock as close to the trunk as possible. If you just plant the entire root mass from the nursery pot on a rock you'll have roots that go down 12 inches and then go out. Like I said earlier, DRs are really rugged and can take a beating when you repot them.

Eample:

Year 1 - Bare root it and cut off most of the roots.


And put it on a board


In an Anderson flat


Year 2 - Drastically work on the roots again. Tree will slow down but be fine


Year 3, next year, I'll chop it down a bit now that I've got a good base to work with.

 

[sorce]

I'm anti stake.

Welcome to Crazy!

I'd cut it below the need for a stake and call it what it wanted.

Sorce

 

[Srt8madness]

Stick it in the ground and don't cut anything.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Some great ideas. It would seem the Redwood tree will grow much faster on the grafted roots… given it is grafted.

The advantage of growing roots off of the grafted area is the trunk will grow evenly. Frequently the rootstock, if not matched carefully with the scion horticulturally, will grow faster/wider then the scion.

Not sure your trunk is grafted as your photo isnt zooming in on that area..

Here’s my added experience.

if one plants a Redwood in the ground it’s better to flattened the roots from the gitgo and screw the tree into a tile or maybe a board. (Big screw as possible)

A tile will give some heft to the base. When you do, it’s a good idea to position some bigger rocks above the nebari for a 1-2 months, then take the rocks away when the tree is stable.

Alternately you can pot the tree, then up-pot every 1-2 years. As stated previously the tree will caliber faster if the majority of the lower foliage is kept intact. Up potting won’t grow quite as fast as in the ground, but it will be much easier to work on and observe the roots each time you up pot.

Trim lower branches only as needed to prevent bulges due to the ever present double, triple and sometime quadruple bar branches redwoods are fond of throwing.

Premium garden mix with about 30% bark is what I use on my Redwoods in pots.

cheers
DSD sends

cheers
DSD sends

 

[dbonsaiw]

Like this? I haven’t gotten a tub yet for the dawns, I want to do them in larger round tubs.

Very interesting. Do you have any concerns for root rot? I have mine in pumice, calcined clay and bark, but now re-thinking my choice of soil. It does get watered more often though. I repotted it into a nursery pot in early spring when I got it and roots are growing out the bottom. It's growing well, but definitely not the aggressive growth you are experiencing.

 

[19Mateo83]

Very interesting. Do you have any concerns for root rot? I have mine in pumice, calcined clay and bark, but now re-thinking my choice of soil. It does get watered more often though. I repotted it into a nursery pot in early spring when I got it and roots are growing out the bottom. It's growing well, but definitely not the aggressive growth you are experiencing.

This is my first year with them. We will see come spring when they get repotted in something shallower and wider. I’m thinking since 75+% of the roots are above water root rot won’t be an issue. I’ve always heard to treat them like a BC as they are thirsty trees. I’m also finding that they drink those water dishes every 2-3 days so they do have a day or so with dry roots in between floodings.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I’ve always heard to treat them like a BC as they are thirsty trees.

This makes a lot of sense and is why I asked. I can't do much about the soil choice now, but maybe I'll try placing it in a tray of water.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I’ve always heard to treat them like a BC as they are thirsty trees. I’m also finding that they drink those water dishes every 2-3 days so they do have a day or so with dry roots in between floodings.

This is an interesting discussion.

I‘ve had Redwoods, including Dawn Redwood for four years now, studying their horticultural needs as always for my trees. The Dawn is one of the fastest growers in the pack.

It is true Dawn Redwoods are related to Giant Sequoia and Bald Cypress trees. They are all in the Cupressaceae Family. Yet Dawn Redwoods, Giant Sequoia and Coastal redwoods are in the subfamily Sequoioideae, while Bald Cypress is in the Subfamily Taxodioideae with Cryptomeria and Chinese Swamp Cypress.

While Dawn Redwoods are known to tolerant an amazing variety of conditions, dry to wet, even flooding. At this point I haven’t seen hard evidence demonstrating the Dawn Redwoods actually do better by continual flooding then being misted and kept moist by watering properly, planted in well drained soil.

It may be possible, just haven’t seen the evidence. If this is true, we will all be getting out our buckets!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Joe Dupre']

EVERY time you cut foliage; it slows the tree down. No getting around that. Fastest growth is putting it in the ground and fertilizing it aggressively. You HAVE to decide how big you want the trunk on the finished tree. One-inch trunks and 5-inch trunks demand unbelievably different pathways. The fastest, most efficient way to the final product is getting a tapered trunk the size you want . I wouldn't worry about working the roots too much either. Roots help grow the tree. Branches and apex are much easier and faster to attain.
No such thing as "out of control" in bonsai.......at least there shouldn't be. The backbone of bonsai is control. You can learn it early ........or ........you can learn it early.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Just checking in on everyone's redwood progression. Also wanted to know when (if???) folks stop flooding their redwoods.

I recently uppotted mine into a 10 gallon container with some more water retentive elements. Spent the season watering and fertilizing heavily and my stick in the mud is now a 5' Christmas tree a few feet wide. Trunk swelled as well.

 

[Loubonsai]

Wow did I get a lot of info on dawn redwoods in this string. I picked up about a 6' tall "amber glow" version which I guess tops out at 35'. Current trunk is a little less than 11/2". I guess from what I gather I should top trim some and concentrate on the trunk thickening while getting the roots shallower. Wasn't shopping for this, but couldn't resist a price of $37 at Lowes. They were selling out most trees to make room for Christmas crap! New to this whole hobby and love the info on here.
Thanks

 

[andrewiles]

Wow did I get a lot of info on dawn redwoods in this string. I picked up about a 6' tall "amber glow" version which I guess tops out at 35'. Current trunk is a little less than 11/2". I guess from what I gather I should top trim some and concentrate on the trunk thickening while getting the roots shallower. Wasn't shopping for this, but couldn't resist a price of $37 at Lowes. They were selling out most trees to make room for Christmas crap! New to this whole hobby and love the info on here.
Thanks

That's a great deal. They're usually over $100 here.