What do I do with this Crimson Queen?

[Adair M]

I’m just impressed that you can reach the keyboard, from way up there on your high horse.

??

He’s on his high horse because he’s learned how to ride.

 

[BackyardBonsai]

Smoke, you and I disagree on some things, but we both agree that starting with good stock is one of the keys to success in bonsai. Unfortunately, for those new to the hobby, developing an eye for good material requires experience. So, it’s a Catch-22, isn’t it?

I agree with your advice to pay for stock that has been started with bonsai as the ultimate goal, rather than landscape material.

I disagree with this "developing an eye for good material requires experience". This is not a rocket science, most people know what is a good material but how much are you willing to pay to the good material. If someone is new why would they want to pay for something that are hundred of dollars when they don't have the skill to keep it alive. Everyone have their own reason why but to tell the newbies don't know what a good trunk and a stick in the pot is just shallow. Which I seen too many times from you and a few others here. Not paying big money on stocks should not be the reason for not doing bonsai!

 

[Smoke]

I disagree with this "developing an eye for good material requires experience". This is not a rocket science, most people know what is a good material but how much are you willing to pay to the good material. If someone is new why would they want to pay for something that are hundred of dollars when they don't have the skill to keep it alive. Everyone have their own reason why but to tell the newbies don't know what a good trunk and a stick in the pot is just shallow. Which I seen too many times from you and a few others here. Not paying big money on stocks should not be the reason for not doing bonsai!

Great post from a guy who calls himself “backyard bonsai”. I agee with you more than you think. I will start advocating buying shit from now on.

You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Adair M]

I disagree with this "developing an eye for good material requires experience". This is not a rocket science, most people know what is a good material but how much are you willing to pay to the good material. If someone is new why would they want to pay for something that are hundred of dollars when they don't have the skill to keep it alive. Everyone have their own reason why but to tell the newbies don't know what a good trunk and a stick in the pot is just shallow. Which I seen too many times from you and a few others here. Not paying big money on stocks should not be the reason for not doing bonsai!

You can buy decent bonsai stock that isn’t “hundred(s) of dollars”. Plant City Bonsai has a nursery full of it.

You CAN find suitable material at landscape nurseries. But, it will take longer to fix the issues you’ll find with them.

If I may, I refer you to Vance Wood. He likes Mugo Pines. Mugo are not native to the US, they’re propagated here by the commercial nursery trade for use as hedges. They’re manicured into balls of foliage before being sold at retail.

So, when Vance buys a Mugo, it takes him several years to a decade to transform a bush to tree form. And then, once he’s had it about a decade, it begins to start to look like a tree once again.

Just think what Vance could do with a Mugo that began its life as a tree, and not a bush!

Sure, you CAN transform a “stick in a pot” into a bonsai. How long do you want to wait?

 

[BackyardBonsai]

You can buy decent bonsai stock that isn’t “hundred(s) of dollars”. Plant City Bonsai has a nursery full of it.

You CAN find suitable material at landscape nurseries. But, it will take longer to fix the issues you’ll find with them.

If I may, I refer you to Vance Wood. He likes Mugo Pines. Mugo are not native to the US, they’re propagated here by the commercial nursery trade for use as hedges. They’re manicured into balls of foliage before being sold at retail.

So, when Vance buys a Mugo, it takes him several years to a decade to transform a bush to tree form. And then, once he’s had it about a decade, it begins to start to look like a tree once again.

Just think what Vance could do with a Mugo that began its life as a tree, and not a bush!

Sure, you CAN transform a “stick in a pot” into a bonsai. How long do you want to wait?

What make you think he not enjoying do just that. In fact, to me that is what bonsai is all about.... he is doing bonsai not buying bonsai.

 

[BackyardBonsai]

Great post from a guy who calls himself “backyard bonsai”. I agee with you more than you think. I will start advocating buying shit from now on.

You can’t have it both ways.

Thanks for agreeing with me! Why would you even comparing buying a tree to buying a house or finding a soulmate is beyond what everyone come here to seek.

 

[Adair M]

What make you think he not enjoying do just that. In fact, to me that is what bonsai is all about.... he is doing bonsai not buying bonsai.

There are people who raise bonsai stock to be eventually turned into bonsai. So the trunk might have a few twists and turns, some taper, a few lower branches to work with, but they have never been “styled”.

Starting with that kind of material can save you a decade of watering, fertilizing and waiting.

But, hey, it’s your life.

There’s all kinds of ways to enjoy bonsai. I prefer working on improving established bonsai, and taking “pre-bonsai” to the next level. I’ve got “project trees”, too. Here’s one:



I bought it right after it was dug out of the ground, 4 years ago. I bought it bare rooted. I potted it in this cut down container, and didn’t touch it for a year. I started styling it 3 years ago by cutting it back. 2 years ago, I put in the major bend in the trunk. I just increased the angle of that bend last weekend, and cut it back farther. Also, two years ago, I put in 4 grafts, 3 of which took. It still needs a couple more.

It’s still “rough” but it’s showing promise. It was about 20 years old, in the ground, when it was dug.

Developing bonsai takes time. If you start young enough, maybe you don’t have to buy time. I’m 65, I’ve heard the doctor say, “Adair, you have cancer”. Twice. Both times, surgery was successful.

For me, I don’t mind paying for decent stock to play with. I don’t have twenty years to invest in growing stock to start.

 

[rockm]

I think one of the things holding bonsai back that keeps coming back, is that more than a few people think bonsai are created all at once from scratch, either from seed or seedlings or small stock...That Do it Yourself attitude is fine--as far as it goes and a far as it can be pushed.

There is also a bit of reverse snobbery involved with some folks who look down on those willing to spend more than $100 on a piece of stock. some of those folks also assume that there is no real skill involved in working older stock--it's just rearranging or adjusting stuff...

This tree was $300...Did I "buy a bonsai?" If you've been doing this less than five years or so, it may appear that way. But if you've actually worked on stock like this you know that there's probably ten years of work there before it's close to being a bonsai--that's IF the roots aren't a mess...

 

[rockm]

as for the OP's maple, I'd plant that one out and let it run for five years. Bulk up the trunk and nebari. Don't prune anything on it for that time either. It looks to be a "regular" unremarkable cultivar of JM. Those are the BEST kind to work. they tend to be a lot more vigorous in growth and bulking up that those slow growing laceleaf/cutleaf varieties (which will probably go all crispy on you by July down there in the La. heat.) Laceleaf/cutleaf JM are regulars herein Va. in nursery sales bins by the beginning of Aug. as they become so fried by the sun they're unsellable and harry homeowner thinks they're dead.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

I think it's important to recognize that 'good material' is available at different stages. You can buy 'good material' that are 2-3 yr old seedlings (cheap), 15 year old trees, 80 year old trees (expensive), and everything in between.

i'm 30 years old. when I look for 'good material' i don't have the same considerations and concerns that older generations might have. I also don't have the same experience when it comes to buying material. But even if a 60yr old person had the experience they have now when they were 30 yrs old, their considerations would still be different than they are now of course.

I am with @Cajunrider on the fact that some of my trees are very literally just for smiles, such as the 36-48" Aka Shigitatsu Sawa that I am treating with 'bonsai' practices (ramification etc.) and, yes, I will be planting in bonsai pot, despite strong disagreement from the usual suspects:

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/s...nsai-pot-help-wanted.35842/page-2#post-601699

I enjoy playing with my trees too much to only have 'serious' bonsai

 

[BackyardBonsai]

as for the OP's maple, I'd plant that one out and let it run for five years. Bulk up the trunk and nebari. Don't prune anything on it for that time either. It looks to be a "regular" unremarkable cultivar of JM. Those are the BEST kind to work. they tend to be a lot more vigorous in growth and bulking up that those slow growing laceleaf/cutleaf varieties (which will probably go all crispy on you by July down there in the La. heat.) Laceleaf/cutleaf JM are regulars herein Va. in nursery sales bins by the beginning of Aug. as they become so fried by the sun they're unsellable and harry homeowner thinks they're dead.

This is what the OP was asking. He didn't ask how to make this tree into a show stopper in 3 years time. There are many posts with trees that I will never touch but I wouldn't comment on it.... To me that is just a personal preference and should be kept to yourself. I don't like people give bad comments on other people's trees because they don't fit their ideal material.

 

[Pitoon]

I see a dozen+ air layerings in the JM. Plant them all in the ground and let them grow out several years. Then you'll have plenty to play with.

 

[Cajunrider]

To put it another way, when you take your pistol out to shoot, your happy with hitting the target once and a while rather than becoming a marksman? Would that be a fair statement?

If that is your goal why do you come to a BONSAI forum and share your trees? If the goal is you alone why share stuff that has little future in your life and expect the forum to design it for you?

Funny you mentioned shooting. When I am in IDPA match, my ammo is hand loaded, my guns well maintained and sighted, etc. However, when I go plinking with my 22, I may shoot just to push a can around. If I miss, oh well I shoot again.

As for asking the forum to design it, that is too much I don't mean that. It is more like "Hey guys, I have this fun thing. What do I do with it? Questions like that are asked all the time in this forum.

 

[0soyoung]

I see a dozen+ air layerings in the JM. Plant them all in the ground and let them grow out several years. Then you'll have plenty to play with.

Screw planting them in the ground, it just gives them a f**ked up nebari. Of course, if you want a 5 inch trunk, it maybe must be in the ground, but otherwise, a.p. does just fine in pots/boxes and one doesn't have another 5 years creating a nice nebari.

 

[rockm]

Screw planting them in the ground, it just gives them a f**ked up nebari. Of course, if you want a 5 inch trunk, it maybe must be in the ground, but otherwise, a.p. does just fine in pots/boxes and one doesn't have another 5 years creating a nice nebari.

Not if you're smart about it. Cut the root ball flat directly underneath, wire the thing to a tile. Bury the tile about two inches deep....see what happens in five years...

 

[j evans]

The most important part, do what you want and have fun.

 

[Pitoon]

Screw planting them in the ground, it just gives them a f**ked up nebari. Of course, if you want a 5 inch trunk, it maybe must be in the ground, but otherwise, a.p. does just fine in pots/boxes and one doesn't have another 5 years creating a nice nebari.

Not if you're smart about it. Cut the root ball flat directly underneath, wire the thing to a tile. Bury the tile about two inches deep....see what happens in five years...

Planting in the ground like a landscaping tree is one thing. However anyone with the intent to plant a tree into the earth to get girth on the trunk should be planning well in advance for the future look of the tree. ...to include the nebari.

Field growing bonsai trees

 

[leatherback]

I think one of the things holding bonsai back that keeps coming back, is that more than a few people think bonsai are created all at once from scratch, either from seed or seedlings or small stock...That Do it Yourself attitude is fine--as far as it goes and a far as it can be pushed.

There is also a bit of reverse snobbery involved with some folks who look down on those willing to spend more than $100 on a piece of stock. some of those folks also assume that there is no real skill involved in working older stock--it's just rearranging or adjusting stuff...

This tree was $300...Did I "buy a bonsai?" If you've been doing this less than five years or so, it may appear that way. But if you've actually worked on stock like this you know that there's probably ten years of work there before it's close to being a bonsai--that's IF the roots aren't a mess...
View attachment 233178

What a rubbish tree. Why don't you get some stock with potential. I will take this off your hands. It is below you

 

[Cobrapesty]

To put it another way, when you take your pistol out to shoot, your happy with hitting the target once and a while rather than becoming a marksman? Would that be a fair statement?

If that is your goal why do you come to a BONSAI forum and share your trees? If the goal is you alone why share stuff that has little future in your life and expect the forum to design it for you?

Smoke I think you are missing the point.

To put it another way, when you take your pistol out to shoot, your happy with hitting the target once and a while rather than becoming a marksman? Would that be a fair statement?

If that is your goal why do you come to a BONSAI forum and share your trees? If the goal is you alone why share stuff that has little future in your life and expect the forum to design it for you?

Smoke I think you are missing the point. Cajunrider said he does it to put a smile on his face. I also thought the forum was to get advice. I myself come here to get ideas, learn something's but one of the reasons I bonsai is to experiment and do things or try things people say is the wrong way. I believe that is how I truly learn. Trial and error is a great learning tool as I asking for advice. Just my 2 cents from another old guy.

 

[Cobrapesty]

He’s on his high horse because he’s learned how to ride.

But to teach?