Trunk chop and leader selection and styling for cedar

[maroun.c]

When working with trees with long trunks with minimal elegant motion in the trunk, if u want to chop the trees shorter, I'm.wondering how to select a leader and to make it grow to continue the initial motion in the lower trunk. Most branches I have for leaders emerge laterally and pointing one up will still have a very different angle than remaining trunk. Also what height would u reduce to?
Acquired 2 larger cedrus lebani 2 days back. Larger than any suitable trees I have found before. Too many branches but I'll remove non needed branches and nice taper and minimal trunk movement that I quite like. Also all branches have very good 2ndary branches emerging all over to cut the straight branches back to and ramify later on. They have buds opening all over which i believe is a good sign.
Few.more questions on the plan for those:
-cut candles now?
- repot end of winter with half.barerrot.this year and other half next year.
-when to chop and at what height do u recommend?
And do I move to bonsai pot with forst second or 1 year after the half bare roots? Prefer to avoid a 3rd root handling with repot which would make it 3 consecutive root disturbance.

As usual they are in bad soil ( but I'm told have been grown In this mountain soil last 2-3 years) so I'm on a rush to get them in better soil if I can make that a priority.
Thanks for.all the help and pointers u can give.

Trees

Trunks


Branches i.might use forl eader after chop.and the angle they emerge.to which is very different than tank movement even if i orient them up.


2ndary branches to cut back to, many better branches than this.


And multiple tiny buds all over. Not sure if cedar should.have buds as big as pine?

 

[Stan Kengai]

Your first step should be finding the base of the tree. You need to dig down into the soil to expose the top of the surface roots and try to figure out the most attractive view of the base. Even if you can't find the most attractive view, you might find a flaw in the base you will need to hide, like a overly large root or a spot with no surface roots.

Once the front view of the base is established, you can then pick out a trunk line. On material like this, it is hard to get a perfectly straight trunk line above a chop, unless you are lucky enough to have a very young sprout to cut back to. The alternative is to pick a branch that leans toward the front. You can wire that branch up if it is flexible enough, or use the trunk above the proposed chop as an anchor to pull the branch upward.

 

[maroun.c]

many tiny young sprouts I can use and most branches are still quite flexible to move up but as you say it won't be straight, I'm fine with a bit of an angle as trunk is perfectly straight... do yo uthink growing a complete apex from a young sprout on the trunk?
What would be the best time to cut and to repot? Autumn or end of winter for Cedars?

 

[bluecat]

A general rule of thumb is the height of the tree should be between 6-12 times the trunk thickness. By the looks of it that would put your finished height at around 1-2 feet tall. If anyone has any advice about getting the characteristic multitrunked, flat top look of a cedar, please share as I have some similar trees I'm looking to do this with.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

The multitrunk flat top -down to scale - is what should be done from seed. Decapitate the seedlings, and they'll reward you with some triple (or more) trunk system. They respond really well to it.
I have around 20 cedrus seedlings that all responded that way. And they're darn fast growers! They have outgrown my double flush pines within a year.

As for repotting seasons.. They don't like repotting at all. I haven't found any valuable information other than my own experience, which seems to be that spring is better than summer and winter. I just did some repots and it's fall right now, so we'll see if they made it in spring.

 

[BobbyLane]

Lebanon is home to the Cedar of lebanon tree, you have many amazing examples of old cedar trees right on your doorstep, you should be using those for ideas and inspiration.

i think OP could of learnt a lot from even watching Ryan work this nursery spruce. you would of learnt how to find the base, how to choose a leader or determine a height which looks convincing to the eye. pretty sure ive shown you the link before @maroun.c you should bookmark for future reference

from mid aug to late sept there was some threads and articles on the forum re later summer repotting of conifers, i think you missed the boat now unless you know what youre doing.

 

[maroun.c]

Indeed I have watched Ryan's series about nursery stock selection and initial work. I'll be also subscribing to Mirai to get access to all the library videos.
Saw the discussion about summer repotting but avoided it for 2 reasons, I had just received the trees and wanted to make sure they were doing ok before starting repots. Also theres was a bit of ct controversy around it that I wasnt very sure.

Plan now is as follows:
Fertilize lightly in autumn, once every 2-3 weeks
Trunk chop a bit higher than wanted length early winter.
Cleanup deals branches and clearly bad branches early winter.
Late winter/early spring cleanup soil to find base and front.
Take out 10 percent of bottom soil.
Do 1/3 -1/2 bare root based on how good branches look, keeping soil close to trunk untouched. Fill with mix of pumice and clay balls.

Next year late winter or year after based on how tree look, bare root remaining nursery soil side, keeping solid close to trunk untouched
Move to bonsai pot.

Year after early winter remove bad branches and do 1st wiring.

Year after branches affected by root works would have died by now, so remove unwanted branches, wire and start working on pads

Please feel free to indicate any plan changes I should make. I have 2 trees would u suggest i try to do root work on one in summer to see if it makes any difference or do both in late winter/early spring ?

 

[BobbyLane]

sounds like you have it all mapped out
ill let you get on with it then.

 

[maroun.c]

sounds like you have it all mapped out
ill let you get on with it then.

Thanks for ur help..am sure I'll be back with questions