0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Computers of old had the message
... working.
So, I we continue to wait for a result.
Which is just how it is.
... working.
So, I we continue to wait for a result.
Which is just how it is.
Trident maple with no internodes this year
- Thread starter karen82
- Start date
This is what it looks like about 3 weeks after pinching. There's definitely some new leaves forming but no shoot extension. Maybe this problem is permanent. It just seems so common to graft tridents, I didn't know it ran this risk of ruining a tree permanently. I'm not going to toss it yet, I think I'll try removing what I can of the grafted seedlings next spring and see how it does.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
It looked like it was going to grow some new leaves, but then the 2 tufts I tried pinching dried up and died instead. I checked yesterday, and now that whole branch is dead, no green under the bark at all. The rest of the tree still looks healthy except for the abnormal growth. I'm glad I only tried pinching back one branch.
It's a nice offer but this thing is pretty big and heavy, even in its smaller pot, not to mention very ugly and possibly unable to grow. I don't think it's worth the shipping costs. In any case, it's in winter storage til April. This is the what the poor thing looked like the last time I barerooted it, just before I trimmed and grafted, a few years back... really ugly nebari... and I doubt it's much better now.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
I've seen this in cases where the cytokinins overshadow the auxin production, or when the plant has become insensitive to auxins all together. When that happens, there is no elongating growth anymore.
Some gall producing bacteria like agrobacterium can edit plant genes to cause these kind of dwarfish growths. But it can also happen after exposure to high auxin levels where the plant has become insensitive to it; continuous application of rooting hormones for instance.
I know cut paste can be high in cytokinins sometimes, because cytokinins help callus formation and healing. It could be related. Definitely worth to have a look at the brand and maybe check its contents.
Some gall producing bacteria like agrobacterium can edit plant genes to cause these kind of dwarfish growths. But it can also happen after exposure to high auxin levels where the plant has become insensitive to it; continuous application of rooting hormones for instance.
I know cut paste can be high in cytokinins sometimes, because cytokinins help callus formation and healing. It could be related. Definitely worth to have a look at the brand and maybe check its contents.
In case anyone is curious, this maple is still not growing. I removed a lot of the cut paste (though I don't think that's the issue since I use it on other trees no problem). I scraped off the top layer of soil and removed as much as I could of the grafted seedlings and their roots, without actually repotting. I then replaced most of the soil and topped with sphagnum moss in case the soil was drying too fast. Still no growth, just the weird leaf tufts. This was a normal trident maple til I did the seedling grafts. The grafted seedlings grew normally (including some extras that I'm developing into a forest), so it just doesn't seem like it was from some pathogen introduced by the seedlings. But it's been 3 years now, so it does seem like a permanent change. I just don't like the idea of throwing it in the compost after spending this much time on it. The brown stuff on there is milorganite, the only fertilizer it's gotten this year.
I’ve been watching this thread since I had a few tridents that were behaving similarly for the last couple of years.
This year has shown ‘normal’ growth-extension/branches.
I don’t know if it was just a matter of time, but, fwiw, the differences in care this year were: no repotting of the affected trees, proactive application of fungicides (the prior years had no fungicide applied).
But, there were also weather differences this year, so that may have been involved as well….
This year has shown ‘normal’ growth-extension/branches.
I don’t know if it was just a matter of time, but, fwiw, the differences in care this year were: no repotting of the affected trees, proactive application of fungicides (the prior years had no fungicide applied).
But, there were also weather differences this year, so that may have been involved as well….
Mikecheck123
Omono
You don't need a study for that it's common sense. A small pot dries out faster than a big one. Which is what stimulates root growth.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Did you by chance do what Adair suggested. Removing all but two leaves at each cluster? He explained why it sometimes does it.
bwaynef
Masterpiece
FYI: the reason Adair suggested it is because that's the same procedure for Ginkgo & members of the Prunus family that put out "spur" growth.
I've heard with the other species that sometimes you have to reduce to two leaves a couple times, or for a couple years before it begins growing normally. I've used the technique to good effect with ginkgos. Never seen it on Tridents though.
I wonder if it should receive the shishigashira/kotohime (I get the himes mixed up) treatment where you do the exact opposite, in that you remove all the interior leaves and keep the exterior ones. If it doesn't develop the sort of growth you want, at least you can keep the growth that DOES occur.
^^It looks like she followed Adair's advice.
I've heard with the other species that sometimes you have to reduce to two leaves a couple times, or for a couple years before it begins growing normally. I've used the technique to good effect with ginkgos. Never seen it on Tridents though.
I wonder if it should receive the shishigashira/kotohime (I get the himes mixed up) treatment where you do the exact opposite, in that you remove all the interior leaves and keep the exterior ones. If it doesn't develop the sort of growth you want, at least you can keep the growth that DOES occur.
TrimmyWhimmy
Yamadori
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It's like a trident version of Mikawa Yatsubusa. Maybe not bad, just unique.
I tried that last year, sort of. I didn't quite go that drastic since the clusters were so dense but I cut off the tip from each cluster, but it didn't seem to have an effect. I haven't done anything yet this year because it's too early, things are just starting to leaf out. I think the rabbits might've gotten to it over the winter.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Oh no! Sincerely hope they didn't get to it.
Trident respond so amazingly well to defoliation. I might try what Adair said with more foliage removed this time. He is so knowledgeable...his advice tends to be quite sound. Best of luck to ya.
I went and got it out of storage... it looks dead. There was actually not much rabbit damage, I think it died before the rabbits nibbled on it (though the rabbits ate all the branches -even wired branches - on a lot of other trees. It was a mild winter, but there wasn't much snow cover to protect it so I guess that did it in. One of the grafted seedlings, which managed to resprout, is alive but the whole main trunk is dead. I'm going to keep watering it and see what happens, but I don't have very high
expectations.
expectations.
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Thank you. I wanted to take his advice but the leaves were so packed in that it would've been almost impossible to remove all but one pair of leaves without damaging them. I cut what I could remove while safely leaving one or two pairs of leaves undamaged. I was going to try trimming more this year... but maybe not considering how the tree looks now (alive after all but very weak).
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Best not over work it then. Best of luck.
