Trees stolen again... I'm done

[Cajunrider]

The whole situation sucks, but the solution is certainly not killing. Think about it.

Agree.
For me, I will do my best to prevent theft. I believe that we do good in not presenting a situation where people can be tempted to do bad things. When the theft is happening, I will try to stop the theft because I believe that yielding to the thieves will encourage them to do more. However, my attempt to stop the theft will never be to the point of injuring others. I don't think any material things is worth that.

I feel for you @Kahless

 

[Asymetrix]

Yikes. So incredibly sorry. Id probably be in prison by now if that happened to me. The police are completely useless 99.9 percent of the time.

 

[gooeytek]

Set traps like bombs, etc.

fixed.

 

[gooeytek]

Leave a loose roll of wire along the patch. Barbed, optional.

 

[rockm]

The whole situation sucks, but the solution is certainly not killing. Think about it.

A better way to put it for those trigger-happy, irresponsible gun owners out there (and I'm a gun owner), is "It's not worth 25-30 for second degree murder or assault with a deadly weapon" or "it's not worth having your dog put down" over a potted plant. That would likely be the result of shooting someone or siccing your dog on them hoping for grievous injuries or worse.

Thieves are scum. Having a tree stolen is about as bad as it gets for a bonsaiist. But killing or seriously maiming someone for taking a bonsai is pretty much not in the spirit of bonsai. In the end, they're just trees.

Sorry the "I'll shoot 'em and hurt 'em" response touched a nerve. My next door neighbor was murdered by her trigger happy boyfriend last month. Gun was chucked into my front yard after the asshole used it. NOTHING is worth the pain of the result of shooting someone. NOTHING.

 

[Gabler]

A better way to put it for those trigger-happy, irresponsible gun owners out there (and I'm a gun owner), is "It's not worth 25-30 for second degree murder or assault with a deadly weapon" or "it's not worth having your dog put down" over a potted plant. That would likely be the result of shooting someone or siccing your dog on them hoping for grievous injuries or worse.

Thieves are scum. Having a tree stolen is about as bad as it gets for a bonsaiist. But killing or seriously maiming someone for taking a bonsai is pretty much not in the spirit of bonsai. In the end, they're just trees.

Sorry the "I'll shoot 'em and hurt 'em" response touched a nerve. My next door neighbor was murdered by her trigger happy boyfriend last month. Gun was chucked into my front yard after the asshole used it. NOTHING is worth the pain of the result of shooting someone. NOTHING.

It's illegal to use deadly force to protect a mere property interest. That's true in all fifty states.

Plus, if there's a public perception that gun owners are irresponsible, then it affects what everyone else is allowed to do. Regulations exist to quell fears about bad behavior.

 

[leatherback]

The problems you have to deal with..
Glad we do not have regular gun ownership here.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

When I said it would be nice to see a video of someone with a shotgun saying put it back and get off my property:
The gun is there to protect me because people are unpredictable and crazy.
It is illegal where I’m from to shoot anyone unless you are in fear for your life or the life of another.

 

[Dabbler]

This sucks - The only thing I can think of in hindsight is to wire tie every tree down - I have all mine done like this so They can't be moved or they have been rooted into the ground - Makes it very hard if not impossible to move them without bolt cutters - some I have bolt into a lazy Suzan into the stand so they can't be move even if you try. The back area is also alarmed - I have never had this happen due to where I live but I never want to take a chance with years of time invested in these guys. Plus both my neighbors are marines and navy seal and are decked out the wazoo. I hope they find the bastards

 

[Gabler]

The problems you have to deal with..
Glad we do not have regular gun ownership here.

That's the thing. It's really not a problem. Most people I know have at least one gun in the home for self defense purposes, if not for hunting, sport, etc. There is, however, a public perception that there's a problem. Based on the news stories, it looks like the UK has a major problem with knife crime, and people are running around stabbing each other left and right, but I guarantee that every UK household has at least a set of kitchen knives, and almost nobody is committing crimes with them.

 

[bonsailevel:master]

The only guns I own are shot guns for deer hunting for my wife and I. I have never felt the need to own one for personal protection. The legality of shooting someone to protect personal property has what I assume, many shades of gray for lawyers to hash out. I will say this though,... if I found someone on my property at night, uninvited with they're face covered I would feel very threatened and unsafe. I don't need a judge or lawyers to tell me what course of action I should take to feel safe. I'm sending them on there way with lead shot in there ass.

 

[Gabler]

The only guns I own are shot guns for deer hunting for my wife and I. I have never felt the need to own one for personal protection. The legality of shooting someone to protect personal property has what I assume, many shades of gray for lawyers to hash out. I will say this though,... if I found someone on my property at night, uninvited with they're face covered I would feel very threatened and unsafe. I don't need a judge or lawyers to tell me what course of action I should take to feel safe. I'm sending them on there way with lead shot in there ass.

Speaking hypothetically (this is not legal advice), it would depend where on your property you found the miscreants. Anyone burglarizing your home is assumed under the law to be a threat to you and your family, so you can use deadly force to expel the intruder(s) from your home. Under English Common Law, that's called the Castle Doctrine. However, someone fleeing from your home is no longer burglarizing your home, so you can't shoot someone in the back. Out in a field, you can't assume they're there to attack you. If you were to stumble upon someone digging up trees from a field in the middle of the night, you would need to be able to point to some specific reason you feared for your life. Wearing a mask is not enough. You would need to see the thief draw a deadly weapon, for example. On the porch, it's a bit of a gray area. It's part of your house, but also kind of outdoors, and the rule probably varies from one state to the next.

 

[ShadyStump]

I've seen the gun issue in America from both sides.

My older brother spent the last few years of his life in and out of jail for parole violations after a couple DUIs. The last round was 6 months and we didn't even bother to visit or write because we were all that fed up with it. In stead of learning the common sense lesson, though, he came out and burned every bridge he'd ever built by trying to guilt trip everyone he met about it. By the end he was homeless, living off meth, and scary as hell to put it nicely. At one time he was a suspect in a murder/arson case. He didn't do it, but were hoping it'd at least be a catalyst to get him treatment. No such luck.
One night he was drinking with his best friend after not seeing each other for some time. His friend apparently hadn't heard how bad my brother had gotten, how volatile he could be, before inviting him into his garage. At some point my brother got angry, made a move at his friend, and before anyone knew what had happened he had bullet in his heart.
His friend probably would've gotten off with time served by the end of the trial except that he was drunk in violation of his own parole, panicked and tried to plant a knife on my brother before calling the police. So he's got a year or two left on a 5 year manslaughter sentence, and he's the one I feel sorry for. Wish they'd give me his mailing address so I could at least send him a Christmas card.

I don't blame guns or gun owners. I blame a justice system that's more concerned with social media exposure than the lives of the community; politicians and their business cronies who care more about raising their property values than the people who can't afford rent; law enforcement officers who are over equipped, under trained, and under paided; social workers who are more socialist than worker and only got the job through nepotism...
I think you get the point.
There are allot of issues in America, and our leadership make a habit of placing a reactive facade on their refusal to engage the actual problems.

Soapbox moment over.
Let's let the thread die now so @Kahless can back to what's really important to him.

 

[IllinoisLee]

The same 2 came back again this year for more of my trees. They stole some last year, but there were no cameras then. I gave a police report with video from the cameras. I live in a condo so I can't keep them anywhere else. I either have to move or quit the hobby entirely. I can't keep having my heart ripped out like this. They took 6 more. Some crappy, but one I really loved.
I started drinking again last time this happened, this time I'm going to a meeting.
I'm just posting to vent, because you guys understand how this feels. The police seem like they are clueless as to how valuable these trees are to me. I would rather they stole my car.

Wow, that's brazen. It looks like they think they are at a store. So sorry.

 

[shohin_branches]

This makes me so sick to see. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I live in an urban area with a visible but fenced in backyard and I worry about this often.

 

[Srt8madness]

A better way to put it for those trigger-happy, irresponsible gun owners out there (and I'm a gun owner), is "It's not worth 25-30 for second degree murder or assault with a deadly weapon" or "it's not worth having your dog put down" over a potted plant. That would likely be the result of shooting someone or siccing your dog on them hoping for grievous injuries or worse.

Thieves are scum. Having a tree stolen is about as bad as it gets for a bonsaiist. But killing or seriously maiming someone for taking a bonsai is pretty much not in the spirit of bonsai. In the end, they're just trees.

Sorry the "I'll shoot 'em and hurt 'em" response touched a nerve. My next door neighbor was murdered by her trigger happy boyfriend last month. Gun was chucked into my front yard after the asshole used it. NOTHING is worth the pain of the result of shooting someone. NOTHING.

Sure, he should just get some lube for the BOHICA stick. Having a guard dog is a totally valid method of home protection.

That sort of "live and let live" attitude is what emboldened this activity. No fear of consequence, from the homeowner or the law.

Sorry about your neighbor but that's totally irrelevant to this situation.

 

[rockm]

Sure, he should just get some lube for the BOHICA stick. Having a guard dog is a totally valid method of home protection.

That sort of "live and let live" attitude is what emboldened this activity. No fear of consequence, from the homeowner or the law.

Sorry about your neighbor but that's totally irrelevant to this situation.

Sorry, but I simply pointed out that using a gun to kill someone (or severely wound them) to defend property outside of your home is illegal in all 50 states.

You can't do it and get away without consequences--15-25 in the state pokey for second degree murder or 15 or more for assault with a deadly weapon.

Also, A guard dog that inflicts injury on intruders can also be a problem depending on where you live. Some state laws and country laws are quite specific about liability for dog attack and attack dogs. Your insurance company may also choose to drop you if your dog attacks someone, including an intruder. I've looked into it. I have bull terriers, a banned breed in some places.

Yeah, consequences are a bitch. FWIW, I ain't live and let live. What I am is mostly "be a responsible gun owner" and don't make idle claims about how you'd use them to inflict harm on others. Yes, my neighbor is relative here. The guy who shot her was a gun collector, made his own guns (the cops pulled three dozen long guns including a dozen ARs and a .50 BMG) because he claimed he needed them for self -defense (we haven't had a serious crime in my neighborhood until he killed his girlfriend with his "self defense" .45). The fact is (And you can look this up), a home defense weapon is more likely to be used in a domestic assault/suicide/murder that for an actual home intruder.

 

[penumbra]

I have heard all this talk about guns and defense before. This is often, but not always, young warrior speak. I know there are people who seem beyond redemption, but personally I would hate to live with the consequence of facing who I would be if I took another life. I'd rather not know.
I own several guns (more than I will admit) particularly liking revolvers, lever action rifles and double barrel shotguns. I have a few more combat oriented that are strictly for defense but I would likely be hard pressed to use one for such. Don't know, don't want to know. Gun ownership is one of life's love / hate relationships for me.

 

[Glaucus]

source: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...ys-about-crime-in-the-us/sr_24-04-23_crime_3/

And they will continue to drop. Have done so for 2022 to 2024 and it may keep dropping until at least 2030.

The perception of crime has a very different trend:

source: https://news.gallup.com/poll/323996/perceptions-increased-crime-highest-1993.aspx

Sadly, Chicago doesn't seem to follow this national trend. At least not for homocides:


Source: https://wirepoints.org/chicagos-homicide-problem-dwarfs-those-in-new-york-los-angeles-wirepoints/


Also, knowing all forms of crime are down doesn't help if you just became a victim of crime.
Or when it is true nationally, but not for your local region.

Bonsai theft may be up, though.

Many US cities have achieved incredible decreases of violent crime. Often as a result of careful policy changes and reforms. Should be a case study for many other cities.

Alternative source saying the same:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/crime-rate-perception-gap/

US cops & justice system generally did an anazming job.
Or turns out that the millennial generation are really weird people in that they rarely do crime. When historically, it is usually the younger generations committing most of the crimes.

 

[ShadyStump]

While I agree that the present vein of discussion is a worthy one, it should be moved elsewhere.
Anything potentially relevant to the OP has been said.