To repot or not to repot JWP

[Bepo]

Hello! I'm new to this site and to bonsai so I've come here for advice.
I got this Japanese White Pine last week and I noticed that the soil is really compact. I read that JWP likes a well draining substrate and really likes oxygen for the roots so I'm planning on repotting it.
So a couple of questions:

1.Is it too late to repot?
I've read that repotting should be done in early spring. Its april already and we have had abnormally warm and sunny weather here in southern Finland so Im afraid Im late.
Some sources I've seen recommend repotting before the buds swell and some during it. I tried to get some pictures of the buds, if someone can say if its still okay to repot.
Also attached is a picture of soil above and from the side. The roots are not pot bound so no need to report because of that, but im worried the roots are not fine because of the compact soil. You can see the marks where I tried to dig in the soil with my finger.

2.If I repot what kind of substrate do you recommend?
I have 1-5mm granularity akadama and Crushed pumice 2-5mm and Im thinking of creating a mix of around 60% pumice and 40% akadama. As I have no before knowledge of substrates is this mix "airy" enough for JWP?

3. Aftercare?
Despite of the warm weather we have light frost for the whole next week so Im planning on taking the plant inside to shield it from the frost. Or is it better to wait that the cold weather passes and then repot (if to repot at all)?

This is the beginning of my bonsai journey and appreciate all the help I get

 

[Japonicus]

Despite of the warm weather we have light frost for the whole next week so Im planning on taking the plant inside to shield it from the frost.

Welcome to the sight @Bepo
Not advised to protect from general freezing temps. Possibly aftercare, after repot that is,
temporarily, though not mandate. Only to protect the newly generating roots.
Leave it on the ground if it is safe to do so, regarding pissy animals.
Full Sun is mandate, though wind protection, and moisture control is good for aftercare of repot time.
Otherwise full Sun will increase health if you get the moisture right.
Advised to use a "Boon mix" of 1:1:1 Akadama, lava rock and pumice, though there are many
varying applaudable mixes to use, the Boon mix is widely accepted for conifers.
Therefore as you're beginning in the hobby, stick with a proven mix, while you are getting settled in
and comfortable with the species.

Your buds barely exposed with new growth, and impending cold weather puts you in the sweet spot to repot.
However, if you are not familiar with when the tree was last repotted, you could hold of a year or so,
but always a Spring task. White root tips are another indicator the tree is ready for repot, but in Spring.
This (white root tips) is said to begin roughly 10 days prior to buds moving, signaling green light to go.
Easier to watch the buds to begin moving. No complete drying out, and do not keep damp.
The oxygen you refer to. This is the soil breathing when you can saturate with general ease, and dry
in due time, a wet/dry cycle needs to be occurring. Just a little bit more on the moist side during aftercare
of repots.

Last picture
Do not touch (reduce, pluck needles, pinch candles or otherwise work on) the 1st (lowest) left branch for a couple years.
Then keep buds that are strong at the branch tip while removing weaker buds while building this branch.
We remove any buds greater than 2 for a bifurcation. Keeping stronger buds on weaker branches
and weaker buds on stronger branches, and other techniques, will balance energy eventually
so all candles are pinched or shoots cut at the same time with equal vigour in all areas.

Nice looking tree. Is there a graft? Foliage looks to be a cultivar, but maybe the moss on the trunk is hiding
a nice graft point?

Adding your USDA grow zone to your profile will help others know how to respond based on your weather/season.

 

[Japonicus]

but im worried the roots are not fine because of the compact soil.

These roots look quite fine to me, and sharing desired mycorrhiza fungus. It is advisable to harvest some of this fungus
to incorporate into the new potting around the newly cut roots. It will be present if you do not remove all old soil
but reintroduction gives you a head start on moving nutrients and moisture into the tree.
Don't need a lot but maybe a couple teaspoons worth.
These roots also look like this tree could be on its own roots?
The moss should be removed carefully from the trunk. Tweezers and toothbrush helps.
Out of control moss could use some white vinegar to kill the moss applied locally and
not to the soil really. It's rather acidic.

 

[Shibui]

Despite your 'abnormally warm and sunny Spring' the buds are only just starting to move so no problem repotting now or even waiting a few weeks. I'm usually repotting pies when the candles are growing so it does not seem to hurt either early or later.
White pine is a mountain tree and will laugh at light frost, even after a repot. I would avoid indoors unless real cold is predicted.

Best soil mix is the one you are accustomed to using. While it is true that roots do need air as well as water, there's a wide range of soil mixes that can provide the essential needs. Good plant growth is much more about adapting your care to the soil mix.

I have 1-5mm granularity akadama and Crushed pumice 2-5mm and Im thinking of creating a mix of around 60% pumice and 40% akadama. As I have no before knowledge of substrates is this mix "airy" enough for JWP?

I don't use akadama but I try to remove as much fine particles from potting soil as those finer particles are what filles the spaces where air should be. Personally, I would sieve the akadama to remove the 1-3 mm grains but that may not be necessary if you can control watering better than I do.

Many growers recommend adding some old soil to the new mix to help mycorrhiza fungi re-establish. That does not hurt but I stopped doing it many years ago when I found that the mycorrhiza grew just as well from the existing tree roots and from new fungi coming into the pots.

 

[Bepo]

The moss should be removed carefully from the trunk. Tweezers and toothbrush helps.
Out of control moss could use some white vinegar to kill the moss applied locally and
not to the soil really. It's rather acidic.

Thank you for all the advice!

I started to clean out the moss and made a horrifying discovery, there is a piece of wire stuck at almost at the center of the tree!
After that I noticed there is also a piece of wire still left biting in at the top of the trunk, I can't believe I missed that before!
Is there anything to do about them at this point? The lower one has grown in so I think that is impossible to remove but what about the top one?

Despite your 'abnormally warm and sunny Spring' the buds are only just starting to move so no problem repotting now or even waiting a few weeks. I'm usually repotting pies when the candles are growing so it does not seem to hurt either early or later.
White pine is a mountain tree and will laugh at light frost, even after a repot. I would avoid indoors unless real cold is predicted.

Thank you! Im leaning on repotting because its still in nursery soil and after watering the soil stayed moist for a couple days.

 

[Shibui]

Im leaning on repotting because its still in nursery soil and after watering the soil stayed moist for a couple days.

I'm all for repotting too. I encourage all my students and customers to repot trees as soon as practicable. Having all your trees in a soil mix you know and trust makes it easier to manage watering, fertilising and general care which makes it much more likely your new trees will live and thrive.

 

[Bepo]

Repotted the tree today! It was one of those moments you wish you had someone with experience watching over your shoulder.
Im wondering If I removed the correct amount of roots, attached are before and after pictures and the total amount of roots removed. I've read that you shouldn't expose all the roots at once on pines so I didn't dare to touch the inner ball right below the trunk.
Any advice for the aftercare? Full sun and carefully monitoring the water?
Hopefully the tree survives, I don't want this to be my first victim

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Repotted the tree today! It was one of those moments you wish you had someone with experience watching over your shoulder.
Im wondering If I removed the correct amount of roots, attached are before and after pictures and the total amount of roots removed. I've read that you shouldn't expose all the roots at once on pines so I didn't dare to touch the inner ball right below the trunk.
Any advice for the aftercare? Full sun and carefully monitoring the water?
Hopefully the tree survives, I don't want this to be my first victim

I'm with you on that! And that's why this site helps. The correct amount of roots to remove always depends on how many roots you discover. It looks like you did a good job for your first time. I'd keep it in a shaded and sheltered location, away from direct sunlight and strong winds, for a few weeks to help it recover from the stress of repotting.

Constantly second guessing myself three years in. More confident but still cautious, I used to freak out by having the roots exposed for whatever amount of time I made up in my head. Good luck.

 

[Japonicus]

@Bepo did you tether/wire the tree to the pot?

If the amount removed is depicted between pics 1 and 2,
then you barely touched it. But really, there isn't much to deal with
from the beginning. You need something for the wire to anchor it into the pot.
Had you removed much more, it would be more difficult to do so.

Next time (alternating between outer roots and the core) after removing the
outer roots maybe 1/2 inch worth, try to remove some of the field or nursery soil
in the core/ball of the root system. At least 25%. Trying to keep a firm "wall" of roots
in tact near the outer newest roots removed.

Here is the root ball of my JWP at last repot.
(It is grafted to JBP and the roots are thicker and more fiberous than JWP roots)
I did not tend to the outer roots much, some, but removed extra from the core
getting into the shin which is still harboring old field soil.
Next year, (year 3 from repot) I will tend to the outer roots mostly, upon repot.
Then, it will be a more balanced amount of roots across the board
when I repot in the future, but still trying to get at more of the shin each time.

Starting with a mound of soil as usual in the pot and twisting down onto it...
Back filling this void takes an extra step in repotting.
I bored 2 holes one on either end from top down at an angle
and back filled the bonsai soil with a chopstick, eliminating air pockets.


This is how much or how deep I went into the core.
I use terms "crown" and "shin" interchangeably.
To me the core is simply the central portion of the root ball
and the shin or crown is a portion of the core just below the trunk
and flares out some, with the nebari. It is best when a tree is young to
tend to the shin and get all field or organic soil out of the entire root system
earlier than later. Not necessarily all in one go of it, but knowing this fact
should help take your trees to the next level.
JWP's are slow going trees.

 

[Bepo]

did you tether/wire the tree to the pot?

If the amount removed is depicted between pics 1 and 2,
then you barely touched it. But really, there isn't much to deal with
from the beginning. You need something for the wire to anchor it into the pot.
Had you removed much more, it would be more difficult to do so.

Thank you for the reply! Yes, I did wire it using 2 pieces of wire, but Im bit unsure if I tightened it enough. There was slight movement when I tested the attachment from the base of the trunk. Nothing major, the tree doesn't move when moving the pot. There were a bunch of very small roots at the bottom that came off when I "raked" it.

Next time (alternating between outer roots and the core) after removing the
outer roots maybe 1/2 inch worth, try to remove some of the field or nursery soil
in the core/ball of the root system. At least 25%. Trying to keep a firm "wall" of roots
in tact near the outer newest roots removed.
View attachment 591945

That picture is really insightful, thanks! Do you think its too hasty to repot again next year? Im also thinking also getting a bigger pot, so it could line up with working less on the outer roots and more on the core.
All in all, thank you for the reply it will surely help me in the future!

 

[Japonicus]

Do you think its too hasty to repot again next year?

Yes
It is said to slow a tree down to work on its roots
2 yrs in a row. On its own roots JWP is slower already. IDK what your rootstock is, but even JBP I would wait.
Unfortunately, you're now only going to be fertilising after the tree settles in and is growing,
(JWP not in development will get fertiliser from late Summer till freeze to keep needles and internodes shorter), removing needles growing on the undersides of branches once settled in, and watering...for 2 years. Next Springtime you can pinch the candles back 50% . Removing 75% is ok in 3 yrs from now and then on. This is done at the same time we prevetatively spray for needlecast, when the candles stop elongating and just begin to open.
Not quite ready ^


About ready to pinch back ^ and spray.
No pinching back in weak,... or areas needing more branch length and or caliper, less % removal if any.
Try to keep candles or buds in pairs except the escaping sacrificial apex or branch. Let it grow unhindered till trunk is desired caliper.
I find it much easier and more safe to remove candles greater than 2, than to remove buds but both accomplish same thing. Easy to bump and remove more than one bud and single buds just suck.
Again, this is next Spring, not this year.
BC your tree is very much in development and needs all the energy it can get. So I would start fertilising lightly week 2 in May this year.
Also, in regards to strength or energy, do not thin back, or do major foliage removal the year prior to repotting. Think of the foliage as solar panels that will help drive root regeneration.
Hope that helps.

 

[Bepo]

Hope that helps.

It sure does, thank you very much!

 

[Shibui]

It is said to slow a tree down to work on its roots

Are we talking all trees or specifically JWP? Can you tell us who actually said this? Or is it from personal experience?
I've been doing this for a long time now and noticed, many years ago, that most trees grow more and faster in the Summer following a Spring repot and root prune.
I dig, root prune and replant hundreds of trees every year and even drastic root pruning does not seem to slow trident maples down.

Granted that JWP is already slower and probably somewhat sensitive to root pruning but that's not what the statement says or implies.

The root prune shown above is minimal IMHO. If the tree shows any adverse reaction it won't be from this root removal.
As to whether to root prune the following year, that's always depending on how the tree grows through the current season. If it grows well there's no reason not to root prune again, especially if some more of the original soil needs to be replaced.

I've read that you shouldn't expose all the roots at once on pines so I didn't dare to touch the inner ball right below the trunk.

I can understand your reluctance, especially with so much misinformation on the net but I've found that it depends more on how young and how healthy a pine is. Younger trees have no problem with full bare root but it pays to be more careful with older trees and with trees that are less vigorous or not fully healthy.
A technique called Half Bare Root (HBR) has been developed to help. One side of a pine's root ball is worked one year to reduce roots and replace old soil, then, assuming the tree responds well, the other side is done the following Spring to replace old, tired soil mix over a 2 year period without endangering the tree.
I've also seen growers doing HBR by replacing pie shaped wedges in 3 or 4 parts of the root ball instead of all one side.
See how your pine does over the coming Summer but I'd be prepared to replace up to half the old soil next Spring if the tree appears healthy then.

 

[Japonicus]

Are we talking all trees or specifically JWP? Can you tell us who actually said this? Or is it from personal experience?
I've been doing this for a long time now and noticed, many years ago, that most trees grow more and faster in the Summer following a Spring repot and root prune.
I dig, root prune and replant hundreds of trees every year and even drastic root pruning does not seem to slow trident maples down.

Granted that JWP is already slower and probably somewhat sensitive to root pruning but that's not what the statement says or implies.

The root prune shown above is minimal IMHO. If the tree shows any adverse reaction it won't be from this root removal.
As to whether to root prune the following year, that's always depending on how the tree grows through the current season. If it grows well there's no reason not to root prune again, especially if some more of the original soil needs to be replaced.


I can understand your reluctance, especially with so much misinformation on the net but I've found that it depends more on how young and how healthy a pine is. Younger trees have no problem with full bare root but it pays to be more careful with older trees and with trees that are less vigorous or not fully healthy.
A technique called Half Bare Root (HBR) has been developed to help. One side of a pine's root ball is worked one year to reduce roots and replace old soil, then, assuming the tree responds well, the other side is done the following Spring to replace old, tired soil mix over a 2 year period without endangering the tree.
I've also seen growers doing HBR by replacing pie shaped wedges in 3 or 4 parts of the root ball instead of all one side.
See how your pine does over the coming Summer but I'd be prepared to replace up to half the old soil next Spring if the tree appears healthy then.

Of course my response was tailored to this specific thread and tree.
I do not recall, but was the likes of someone much more involved in the art than I.
Was probably Adair Martin, but I am not 100% sure. No it was not inclusive of Tridents.
The HBR is eluded to in my response, on a horizontal plane, centrally and circumferentially.
I already mentioned the amount of roots removed was negligible, but also that less roots is more difficult
to tether to the pot (this thread specifically). The root system is not quite vigorous or well established, it does not appear.
However it may be equally vigorous as the foliage, and quite capable of supporting it.
I would revisit the tree after it gains a couple years of growth before doing much else beyond
Spring maintenance of foliage, under growth of needles, and minor wiring next Fall if applicable.

I'd be prepared to replace up to half the old soil next Spring if the tree appears healthy then.

The soil will not be compacted and still percolating. The tree in this thread needs more vigour
prior to a repot. JWP is not a quick foliage producer, and the author is not experienced.
If the roots are JWP, all the more reason not to repot 2 years running.

I'm new to this site and to bonsai

It pays to allow a tree to settle and grow, then set it back.
More often than not, on this site, you will hear experienced members promoting
to do nothing to a tree at all for new enthusiasts, other than to water and fertilise and observe growth patterns
for a minimum of 1 year. Some who are experienced, but with a new species observe this practice as well.

Research read and watch videos. Learn how to wire properly. Get more material to practice on.

https://www.craftsy.com/class/bonsai-wiring-essentials
Here's a great place to start ^