If it is simple, do you have any examples?
Thinking about unnatural bonsai
- Thread starter Dhalgren
- Start date
Agree!Tortured...
Even outside our hobby... grafting for nursery purposes and propagation is a thing.
You wish to do clip and grow...one could say...is Tortured. Removing parts off a tree.
I happen to have trees I have heavily put my hand on with style...and, I also have naturalistic trees along with them on my bench.
But end of the day...as long as one finds joy in the process they choose. That is the key.
Because we cannot ask the trees.Yea....despite my signature, I never understood why some people think doing bonsai is torture to the trees
Firstly, I am not a troll and I take exception to you saying that. I feel that just as we manipulate animals for our own needs, your pseudo-scientific ideas about roots and why the trees like it is not only anecdotal, but ignorant about biology, botany, and nature.
This is not a forest.
These are not forests.“They will be pruned to imitate what the trees look like in a true forest.
Is anyone else doing this?”
No you’re the only person who has thought of this in the roughly 1000 years bonsai been around. You’re a genius!
Torture is forcing a branch to bend in a shape that it would not normally take.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Please explain. Ie. I seek enlightenment in your wisdom and knowledge.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Oh. Ok. Thanks. I always thought a group of trees growingreal close together was a forest. What is it? A gaggle of geese. A murder of crows. A conspiracy of lemurs. A pandemonium of parrots. Or something else entirely?
No one on this thread understands what I am talking about. I make forests in raised planters, 5' x 3' x18". Each has an environment as if it were a forest. I use combinations of Trident Maples, Chinese Elms, boxwoods, Colorado blue spruce, Norway spruce, juniper and small hemlack. I only purchase seedlings/saplings. I am creating a forest with leaf cuttings to promote fungus growth. I am not just planting a few trees in the same pot. I don't use pots, only planters. In cold environments such as Boulder, CO where I live, I have a gas heater that just keeps the roots from freezing. My survival success has been decent.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Ok. I’ll bite. What shape does a branch “normally” take? Have you ever been outside away from your mom’s basement to actually see a tree?
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
That sounds like mostly a bonsai forest done mostly badly. Got any photos of those planting or are do we have to imagine their splendor and majesty
If size and using raised beds are the yardstick you’re still a few trees short of a forest. Large plantings. Are fairly common and aren’t alll that difficult to make
A GUIDE TO BONSAI: Forest Bonsai Presentation — National Bonsai Foundation
Creating Forest Bonsai: A Relatively Easy & Inexpensive Way to a Lifetime of Bonsai Enjoyment Our Co-President, Felix Laughlin, gave this presentation on November 10, 2019 at the Blue Ridge Bonsai Society in Asheville, NC, as part of their regular education program for club members. We want
www.bonsai-nbf.org
Attachments
Last edited:
#1: it is not natural to confine the roots of a tree in a small pot. #2: bending branches into shapes that are artistic does not mean it is natural. I believe bonsai should be natural. How would a tree grow if we only made sure it kept a normal shape with guided pruning. Having multiple species in the same planter creates a natural situation. The trees have options regarding how to grow depending on its neighbors, not on use bending them to our wills.
The idea is simple, the implementation is not.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
It’s not natural? No it’s not. But just because nature doesn’t make pots (she does BTW they just made if stone and are in pockets of rocks and bedrock in the wild— ask anyone who collects old tree). Having multiple species in the same pot may be “natural” but in a container it’s simply a pain. Trees grow differently those differences are exaggerated and concentrated in any container. Keep growing your tiny whatever’s and see how some species tend to take over others at the others’ expense
The trees you seem to think have “options” in your situation don’t. What they have is a timer until conditions overcome some of them
You’re bending them to your will by poking your nose into their business. You’re just lying to yourself or simply ignorant, inexperienced or too arrogant to think otherwise
jevanlewis
Mame
First and foremost, you should feel welcome to enjoy doing bonsai in the way that makes you happy. If you want to do bonsai in a more "natural" way, you should feel free to do that. That said, I don't think you are being consistent in your definition of natural. On the one hand, you say that confining roots and bending branches aren't natural, but then you say that pruning them is. So, I am confused on what you actually mean by "natural."
Ultimately, I think bonsai is widely accepted to be defined as follows:
1. First, the literal definition of bonsai is "a tree in a container."
2. Second, bonsai is "an artistic representation of a mature tree that suggests a scene in nature."
I don't think people generally argue on the means to accomplish the above goals. If you want to add extra restrictions on how to reach those goals (i.e., take a "natural" approach), that is perfectly fine. I just want to point out that you aren't being consistent in your application of "natural." If you really want natural, you should put it in the container of your choice, walk away, and just see what happens naturally. But, if your definition of "natural" allows pruning, I'm not sure why you would disallow bending and planting in a pot.
Again, please do bonsai in the way you enjoy it, because that is what matters most. But, please understand it will be much more difficult, if not impossible, to represent a mature tree in minature size, especially in a reasonable time frame, if you limit the methods available to you.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I didn’t say not to do it YOUR way but your way seems to come with a superior attitude about what you’re doing. It’s not “better” or “more natural” it’s just more inefficient and ineffective than what most of use are doing.
Pursue it no one really cares but spare us the moral “superiority” of your pursuit
Pursue it no one really cares but spare us the moral “superiority” of your pursuit
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Do you realize this happens in nature all the time to trees?
Wind causes branches to grow in a direction opposite of where they would if the wind were not so strong.
Snow weighs down branches and causes them to droop and can often set in that position, not to mention the weight of the branch itself can over time lower the branch.
Last edited:
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
And finally you have a fundamental misconception (along with the torturing trees thing) about what bonsai is and what it does.
Even though it miniaturizes trees it is not about replicating tiny perfect “natural” trees as and end. Look to garden railroading if all you want to do is make miniature tres as a prop
Bonsai is, was and always will be about communicating with other humans. It is a medium to do that. It means to evoke emotion in others, from serenity,happiness, sadness, melancholy etc. it is manipulated by a human to evoke an emotional response not to intricately replicate natural systems or biospheres.
It is an art, not a science although there is a lot of science involved to keep the medium happy and growing well. You have the cart before the horse
Even though it miniaturizes trees it is not about replicating tiny perfect “natural” trees as and end. Look to garden railroading if all you want to do is make miniature tres as a prop
Bonsai is, was and always will be about communicating with other humans. It is a medium to do that. It means to evoke emotion in others, from serenity,happiness, sadness, melancholy etc. it is manipulated by a human to evoke an emotional response not to intricately replicate natural systems or biospheres.
It is an art, not a science although there is a lot of science involved to keep the medium happy and growing well. You have the cart before the horse
Time Wizard
Sapling
That sounds like a whole lot of cope for not being able to cultivate a decent looking tree.
Similar threads
