****The Well****
- Thread starter yenling83
- Start date
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Jason you are in a microcosym as far as bonsai. Think about your surroundings. The best cache of collected bonsai material in the USA? The largest concentration of newly graduated bonsai masters fresh from Japan. Walter comes often, Peter Warren, Peter Adams. Think about it and then read Walters quote above.
It's all about incentive my friend. You have what they want. Take away the material and they will be gone in a month. Why else would they stay? You can't believe they come there just to spend time with you?
Victrinia Ridgeway
Omono
Seriously Jason... did you just say it's ok to talk trash because he's European? Give me a break.
I'm not uptight... I just have no time to listen to nonsense. If you find that kind of thing appropriate or amusing, then that's a disappointing surprise. I am however not surprised you are defending him as a person... he's your teacher. I would do the same for Daniel. But I'd also be the first person to tell Daniel to stop if he's being goofy. I'll grant maybe Walter's never been out of line in your presense, though I would find that surprising as well. Maybe you are a good influence and should hang around him more. However Al's comment and the fact that he doesn't get invited to things because of it, tells me it's not just a personal perception. Make of it what you will.
I also didn't say he was a hater... I said he had no respect, in my book there is a difference. Call me funny... but as a woman I can tell you I am pretty fed up with the old school boys club mentality that can permiate bonsai. Let's drag ourselves into the 21st century here. If Europe hasn't caught up to the US in the area of respect towards women, then I find that the most suprising of all.
I also think your 99% number is a gross estimation. I went to the demo because it was the only thing going on. I left because doing nothing was better than doing that.
It's interesting how we hold those who we respect so high because they have shared the treasure of their experiance. I am frequently guilty of it myself... but there are lines... and some are just not cool, and no... I would never pay to just see Walter. Because I know he's not going to change a lick. He could care less if he offends me or any other woman, because as you so kindly offered him... he can do whatever he wants... he is after all European.
Some imports just arn't worth it... buy American.
With respect,
Victrinia
P.S. Yenling... I'm so very sorry for adding to a conversation that detracted from your purpose. I promise to try very hard to not do that to you again in the future.
I'm not uptight... I just have no time to listen to nonsense. If you find that kind of thing appropriate or amusing, then that's a disappointing surprise. I am however not surprised you are defending him as a person... he's your teacher. I would do the same for Daniel. But I'd also be the first person to tell Daniel to stop if he's being goofy. I'll grant maybe Walter's never been out of line in your presense, though I would find that surprising as well. Maybe you are a good influence and should hang around him more. However Al's comment and the fact that he doesn't get invited to things because of it, tells me it's not just a personal perception. Make of it what you will.
I also didn't say he was a hater... I said he had no respect, in my book there is a difference. Call me funny... but as a woman I can tell you I am pretty fed up with the old school boys club mentality that can permiate bonsai. Let's drag ourselves into the 21st century here. If Europe hasn't caught up to the US in the area of respect towards women, then I find that the most suprising of all.
I also think your 99% number is a gross estimation. I went to the demo because it was the only thing going on. I left because doing nothing was better than doing that.
It's interesting how we hold those who we respect so high because they have shared the treasure of their experiance. I am frequently guilty of it myself... but there are lines... and some are just not cool, and no... I would never pay to just see Walter. Because I know he's not going to change a lick. He could care less if he offends me or any other woman, because as you so kindly offered him... he can do whatever he wants... he is after all European.
Some imports just arn't worth it... buy American.
With respect,
Victrinia
P.S. Yenling... I'm so very sorry for adding to a conversation that detracted from your purpose. I promise to try very hard to not do that to you again in the future.
Last edited:
Mojosan
Mame
Whoa.
Hey, guys. I don't think it is appropriate to be offering opinions of anyones character in a public forum.
Hey, guys. I don't think it is appropriate to be offering opinions of anyones character in a public forum.
Ang3lfir3
Omono
self moderated
Last edited:
yenling83
Omono
Jason
Chumono
Wow. Have we hit the bottom of "the well" yet?
I don't see what this has to do with anything. I simply stated that I spend time with him....but since you went there than ok. Yes, I am sure the trees are what brings Walter here, it sure isn't my good looks!
Seriously though, Peter Warren has been here twice, Peter Adams has never been out here to where the trees are and I have never met him or seen him in person. But we do now have the best of the best hands down As to Walters statement, if I am not mistaken I am pretty sure that Ryan has taken several unnecessary shots at Walter in the past. Infact, I know he has so what is wrong with Walter defending himself?
Lol!
Last edited:
Never said it was "OK" to trash talk just becuase he is European. What I said is that what is considered trash talk in the US might mean something different in Europe. I don't know what was said, I simply said that is not the Walter that I know. And, yes Americans as a whole are uptight people, just the way it is.
I don't know what Al's comment is based on, I know Walter spent a ton of time in California over the years, so not sure what Al bases that off of. I would bet it has more to do with a personality conflict between old Smokey and Walter more that anything. Oh, that and California bonsai for the most part is old school and not really open the "Naturalistic" teachings of a European. Just my fairly educated guess.
I have ran several workshops with Walter and out of the 100+ people I have only had one person say they wouldn't come back and that had to do with him not styling her tree, not anything he said. I have never heard him degrade a woman in a workshop, infact the ladies all love him so I find the accusations to be way out of character.
I would like to know what was said....
But I am done with this, it is a complete waste of good time. I lose no respect for Walter based on heresay and will continue to enjoy his visits.
And for the record I am a full time student of Ryan Neil now, I will continue to work with Walter when he is here and I will enjoy that time very much. I love Walter like a grandfather and will always cherish the info that he shares with me. Plain and simple.
Last edited:
Wow. Have we hit the bottom of "the well" yet?
I believe we have hit bottom!! lol
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Thats a larger widespread problem than you know.....and thats the truth...
Is my quote above what you are referring to?
I have just spent 5 years as a trustee in the largest bonsai orginazation in the USA. I have been privy to the goings on statewide as well as BCI and The ABS, all of whom look to GSBF for advice and help with conventions. If you wish specifics on this PM me I can tell you plenty. I was around for most of that "ton of time" in California BTW having spnet many days with Walter during the convention in Fresno in 03 and club visits three or four times. I have spent more than enough time to gather a point of view. Trust me it's not a personality conflict. I totally respect his work, lets just leave it at that. Lets also just say that the rude outburst above from Walter was not out of character nor surprising. Sometimes you just have to accept people...warts and all....or not.
The most lucritive gig in the USA is a masters tour of California. You get someone like Mel Ikeda or Fred Miyahara to set up the tours which can be done automatically by GSBF. Over 80 clubs hoping that whomever is on the roster to visit makes their way to "my club". This happened once in 2003 right after the convention when Walter had really never been to California and again in late 2004. It has not happened since. If you hit all 80, thats a quick 24,000.00 in your pocket. The money is still here and the clubs are still waiting for the next tour to pass thru, it just has to be someone they feel comfortable with. Since you seem to have a loving Grandfatherly relationship going on, you might wish to ask him why he hasn't been back. I know why, but maybe Walter can tell you.
Currently Marco has been tossed around as wanting to make a pass thru California again. He was here about the time Ryan left for Japan. 5 clubs that I know of that were asked about a date, turned him down based on the last tour 8 years ago. He left lots of pissed off people in his wake. Gee, those quirky Europeans.
One thing I have always cherished about being on the forums is that although I know many peole in very high places, I don't owe anything to anybody so I can speak freely. I don't have to watch my tongue for fear of ruining something I spent 5 years trying to develop only to have it dashed by saying something stupid on an internet forum. Ahh freedom savor it while we can....
Last edited:
Victrinia Ridgeway
Omono
JasonG,
I don't have any desire to keep on this train any longer either, so I too will not spend any more time with it. There is no point... people feel the way they do for very valid personal reasons, both good - bad - or indifferent.
As to the part about studying with Ryan... that's gotta be tricky seeing as how he's not a NW guy that I know of... but I have no doubt he'll have a lot to share about his experiance of learning with Kimura. I haven't met him yet... but I am looking forward to seeing him at Santa Clara. He's an intriguing young talent, I have no doubt he'll do a lot of great things.
Personally I would like to spend some intensive study time with Kathy... but that's because I believe she embodies what I find as a balance between Japanese and American aesthetics. Not to mention that woman knows her horticulture as much as her style work.
V
I don't have any desire to keep on this train any longer either, so I too will not spend any more time with it. There is no point... people feel the way they do for very valid personal reasons, both good - bad - or indifferent.
As to the part about studying with Ryan... that's gotta be tricky seeing as how he's not a NW guy that I know of... but I have no doubt he'll have a lot to share about his experiance of learning with Kimura. I haven't met him yet... but I am looking forward to seeing him at Santa Clara. He's an intriguing young talent, I have no doubt he'll do a lot of great things.
Personally I would like to spend some intensive study time with Kathy... but that's because I believe she embodies what I find as a balance between Japanese and American aesthetics. Not to mention that woman knows her horticulture as much as her style work.
V
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
Wow. Have we hit the bottom of "the well" yet?
Never on bonsai forums... they have never been a place for those whose bark scars easily.
Is it bonsai or 'bush league'? Over the last 8 years or so I have gotten used to the bickering and barbs. Sadly, many of the very talented folks don't frequent the boards like they did years ago. For people like me, this is a huge loss.
As Smoke said, you have to learn to either accept people warts and all or don't. Some of the squabbles are legendary and have gone on for years. It kinda makes me laugh at this point.
To be honest, I don't give a rip about Walter's personality I have not and likely never will meet him. However, I love his trees and his philosophy toward design. Smoke can be a bit abrasive at times also but his progressions and other teaching articles are without peer.
vive la différence!
Klytus
Omono
What would be a good question to lay before the wandering masters?
These lengthening candles,do you ever feel anxious for them?
These lengthening candles,do you ever feel anxious for them?
LOL You won't get much...good luck with that! LOL
Ryan has moved to the NW, a few miles from where I live so he is here full time. Yes, it is very exciting to have someone of his talents living so close. We have the perfect climate and environment for what a professional bonsai artist would need to succeed.
See ya! Jason
Victrinia Ridgeway
Omono
That quantifies a comment you made about your area becoming a mecca for bonsai then... I am truely happy for anyone who gets to have a strong talent in their area. It's a treasure without equal. And yes... we do have an ideal climate, but don't tell anyone... they may move up here.
V
Bill S
Masterpiece
Told Ya."Have we hit bottom yet" - No it seems to be a bottomless pit.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Bill,
You're right. I removed my post. It was pretty obnoxious. I apologize.
You're right. I removed my post. It was pretty obnoxious. I apologize.
