The Hemlock (Tsuga) Discussion THREAD.

[River's Edge]

Thanks for your suggestions. I think some of the problem is canadensis' growth habit. Western foliage is a swirl of needles and canadensis is flat. Canadensis continues to grow as long as it is pinched even into late fall, so "hardened off" is only a winter view. I have never worked with Mertensiana. Have you tried canadensis?
The pads of my larger tree I find more pleasing than the smaller one, in that the branch structure is visually exposed below the foliage. I'm not sure the smaller tree has enough physical room for both without appearing to be fuzzy. This is a photo from march 25 after winter pruning and before bud-break. It's been wired out with 20 gauge a number of years and it just doesn't seem to get any better. Needle reduction is about a small as it gets. I like your trees and their form. How big are they?

#20 is suitable for new shoots, of no long term use in anything older or lignified! Branches will not hold a downward form without repeated wiring!
For initial pad formation the branches forming the pad are wired in a similar flattened plane to counteract the natural upward shoot growth. When thinning for alternate branching it is important to leave occasional top shoots to wire in the centre! Otherwise the main leader will be bare in the centre of the pad. Repeated cutback to create density with side shoots! The preferred pad shape in my mind is an elongated diamond pattern. As with species that do not bud back beyond foliage retain branches closest to trunk when developing pads and wire out the end to replace thicker leader cut back.
From your pictures the growth habit appears to be the same as young mertensiana. As we seek to portray older more mature trees the wiring and pruning becomes a regular routine.
My Hemlocks range in size from 36 inches tall to 16 inches tall. The tapered thicker trunk one above, and in the Anderson flat is 16 inches tall. The twin trunk in the Sarah Rayner pot is 36 inches tall! The slimmer bunjin style is 30 inches tall, it is also in an Anderson flat! Tree's still in development remain in growth containers until the final stages of refinement! At least that is my practise

 

[ABCarve]

#20 is suitable for new shoots, of no long term use in anything older or lignified! Branches will not hold a downward form without repeated wiring!
For initial pad formation the branches forming the pad are wired in a similar flattened plane to counteract the natural upward shoot growth. When thinning for alternate branching it is important to leave occasional top shoots to wire in the centre! Otherwise the main leader will be bare in the centre of the pad. Repeated cutback to create density with side shoots! The preferred pad shape in my mind is an elongated diamond pattern. As with species that do not bud back beyond foliage retain branches closest to trunk when developing pads and wire out the end to replace thicker leader cut back.
From your pictures the growth habit appears to be the same as young mertensiana. As we seek to portray older more mature trees the wiring and pruning becomes a regular routine.
My Hemlocks range in size from 36 inches tall to 16 inches tall. The tapered thicker trunk one above, and in the Anderson flat is 16 inches tall. The twin trunk in the Sarah Rayner pot is 36 inches tall!

Yes this is all true. Thanks

 

[August44]

I hope that I am not hijacking this thread, but I would like to get a Mt Hemlock (Tsuga mertensiana) or two. I collected a Western Hemlock last year along the road in the Snoqualmie Pass area, but it is very small and will never amount to anything in my life time. Does anyone have an older one they might want to sell, or maybe you could direct me to a nursery where I might buy one. I purchased an Eastern Hemlock (Tsuga Canadensis) from a nursery several years ago that was more like a bush than a tree. I left it in the nursery container and trimmed some foliage and it just kept loosing needles all summer. Not sure what was wrong. I might have been over-watering it. From what I read and see, the Mt Hemlock is the best to work with, but I don't know that for sure. Any help and advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[River's Edge]

I hope that I am not hijacking this thread, but I would like to get a Mt Hemlock (Tsuga mertensiana) or two. I collected a Western Hemlock last year along the road in the Snoqualmie Pass area, but it is very small and will never amount to anything in my life time. Does anyone have an older one they might want to sell, or maybe you could direct me to a nursery where I might buy one. I purchased an Eastern Hemlock (Tsuga Canadensis) from a nursery several years ago that was more like a bush than a tree. I left it in the nursery container and trimmed some foliage and it just kept loosing needles all summer. Not sure what was wrong. I might have been over-watering it. From what I read and see, the Mt Hemlock is the best to work with, but I don't know that for sure. Any help and advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Talk to the people in the Portland Bonsai Society, I have seen quite a few in their group. Should be lots of collectors in Washington and Oregon. You could also contact Matt Reel from Reel Bonsai, or Bobby Clutterbuck from Cascadia Bonsai. Michael Hagedorn from Craetegus Bonsai. They all have connections with collectors of Mountain Hemlock and likely have some stock for sale.

 

[MACH5]

Great thread! Still going over it. Earlier this year I bought a Tsuga mertensiana (mountain hemlock) clump. I did my research and asked some folks how it would fair long term in the Northeast. Some like Bjorn, Ryan and Mauro think it would be fine. There are others however that weren't so sure. So I am rolling the dice So far so good. Keeping it under filtered sunlight with plenty of water.

 

[ABCarve]

Great thread! Still going over it. Earlier this year I bought a Tsuga mertensiana (mountain hemlock) clump. I did my research and asked some folks how it would fair long term in the Northeast. Some like Bjorn, Ryan and Mauro think it would be fine. There are others however that weren't so sure. So I am rolling the dice So far so good. Keeping it under filtered sunlight with plenty of water.

Curious.... why did you choose a mertensiana over a native canadensis?

 

[MACH5]

Curious.... why did you choose a mertensiana over a native canadensis?

It wasn't a conscious decision. I saw the clump and fell in love with it. It happened to be a Mertensiana. With that said I think the foliage of it is smaller and finer than Canadensis.

I read an article from Scott Elser of BSOP that claims that this species can bud back? But all I have read otherwise says they do not.

 

[ABCarve]

It wasn't a conscious decision. I saw the clump and fell in love with it. It happened to be a Mertensiana. With that said I think the foliage of it is smaller and finer than Canadensis.

I read an article from Scott Elser of BSOP that claims that this species can bud back? But all I have read otherwise says they do not.

Keep us posted on how it likes our climate. Seems it should work.

 

[MACH5]

Keep us posted on how it likes our climate. Seems it should work.

For sure will do! I am thinking the same. I've been keeping an eagle eye on it and see if I notice any stress or changes. Seems to be rocking at the moment.

 

[parhamr]

I read an article from Scott Elser of BSOP that claims that this species can bud back? But all I have read otherwise says they do not.

My impression is that latent inner buds can be activated and become useful. I haven’t seen buds spawn from “nothing” like we typically talk about with backbudding.

 

[MACH5]

My impression is that latent inner buds can be activated and become useful. I haven’t seen buds spawn from “nothing” like we typically talk about with backbudding.

Thank you. Understood. Michael Hagedorn cautions where and what you cut off because you won't get it back.

 

[ghues]

Great thread! Still going over it. Earlier this year I bought a Tsuga mertensiana (mountain hemlock) clump. I did my research and asked some folks how it would fair long term in the Northeast. Some like Bjorn, Ryan and Mauro think it would be fine. There are others however that weren't so sure. So I am rolling the dice So far so good. Keeping it under filtered sunlight with plenty of water.

Good luck with it. I have heard that when they travel too far out of their natural climatic conditions, they do ok, don’t thrive and some slower wither away. Might be better off with eastern.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Do all hemlocks graft easily? I have heard Canadensis does, although I haven’t tried yet. My air-layer attempt on a canadensis bridges over with vigor; so I would think that they could heal from grafting easily as well.
As far as back-budding, My rule of thumb is not to cut off leaving no leaves. They occasionally do bud behind the leaves, like a latent bud as described, but best to leave at least some leaves intact.

 

[ghues]

It wasn't a conscious decision. I saw the clump and fell in love with it. It happened to be a Mertensiana. With that said I think the foliage of it is smaller and finer than Canadensis.

I read an article from Scott Elser of BSOP that claims that this species can bud back? But all I have read otherwise says they do not.

After 12 years, I have never had a Mtn Hemi back bud. They do however make wonderful foliage pads.

 

[ghues]

A Western Hemlock that has given a second flush ( which is a first in the 8 years I’ve had the tree) I used the same late spring, very early summer trimming that I’ve used in the past, but this year I added a slow release prilled fertilizer about 10 days before treatment.......which I believe helped as did the cool wet period , we’ve had over the last 6 weeks🌧🌦 contributed to this extra flush. Sorry for the poor photo, will try to get a better one.

 

[August44]

Great thread! Still going over it. Earlier this year I bought a Tsuga mertensiana (mountain hemlock) clump. I did my research and asked some folks how it would fair long term in the Northeast. Some like Bjorn, Ryan and Mauro think it would be fine. There are others however that weren't so sure. So I am rolling the dice So far so good. Keeping it under filtered sunlight with plenty of water.

Would love to see a picture of your clump Serg

 

[Woocash]

I discovered some Western Hemlock “in the back” area of a little nursery near me that had some nice bases but had grown out and been neglected so most have little to no low branching. I read further up that canadensis wont back bud, but will heterophylla? (Or Fraser fir for that matter, because they also had those). I hope so because they are beautiful looking trees.

 

[ghues]

I have had many Western Hemlocks and they have never back budded. Haven’t tried Fraser Fir but other Abies species (amabalis, grandis and Lasiocarpa) I’ve had, have back budded.

 

[Bavarian Raven]

I discovered some Western Hemlock “in the back” area of a little nursery near me that had some nice bases but had grown out and been neglected so most have little to no low branching. I read further up that canadensis wont back bud, but will heterophylla? (Or Fraser fir for that matter, because they also had those). I hope so because they are beautiful looking trees.

As a general rule of thumb, hemlocks won't back bud. True firs sometimes bsckbud but it's really best not to count on it imho.

 

[MACH5]

I have had many Western Hemlocks and they have never back budded. Haven’t tried Fraser Fir but other Abies species (amabalis, grandis and Lasiocarpa) I’ve had, have back budded.

Same here with both of my subalpines. Both back bud quite well.

Would love to see a picture of your clump Serg

Peter, here it is. This is a video from Mauro Stemberger after he styled it. Collected by Greg Brenden somewhere in the PNW. Large piece at 4 feet tall. All trunks coming from the same point much like a candelabra.

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