The 2023 Yamadori/Collecting Thread

[Mtpowell205]

I was thinking about soil used as well -the mix in images looks pretty water retentive even for a tree in a nursery pot. You may really want to make sure to monitor and move out of rains if needed.
Great looking dig!

Thanks TN_Jim. I’m the enthusiast/novice who is going for bonsai on the cheap. My mix is mostly soil conditioner from Lowe’s and perlite (sifted through a beach net). I did put some sphagnum moss around the roots like a good boy though.

 

[Mtpowell205]

Can you tell me what the soil components are in this pot? I'm asking because the components look pretty natural compared to all the pumice most of us use with yamadori. I would think the switch from soil these trees are collected in to pure pumice, pumice/lava/pine bark mixes would be a bit shocking but it seems to work.

Hey August, it’s Lowe’s soil conditioner and perlite, probably 60/40. Bonsai on the cheap! I was tempted to put it in a wood box for increased aeration but said the hell with it and moved on lol. It actually does drain pretty well, keeps me from having to water every single day, which is nice. Sphagnum moss around the roots.

 

[Mtpowell205]

Good score.
If it were me, I would make sure it recovers from collection then chop it probably to the second set of branches from bottom.

Thanks Cajunrider. I’ll be moving to Michigan from Alabama (where the tree was dug) in 2 months and I’m not optimistic about the success but had to grab it.

 

[Mtpowell205]

Leave it alone. If you dug this yesterday with foliage that far along, you're dancing on the edge with it already. It's roots need to recover. A chop or defoliation could be enough to shove it over the edge. Normally, maples and most other deciduous trees are collected before foliage emerges. They're topped at the same time. Doing that before leaves come out preserves some of the tree's energy that would be expended on foliage. As it is now, the tree has committed to growing. Most of its resources are in the foliage. Removing it would mean the tree would have to expend energy in growing a second flush of leaves, which would cost it dearly.

Let it grow for at least a year (two or three would better) before doing anything more to it.

Thanks rockm. It makes sense in my mind that if I were to chop, say, 50% off, that the energy would be more evenly dispersed, roots/foliage. I gave it a little food and will probably feed it lightly assuming it survives so it has plenty of nutrients.

 

[rockm]

Thanks rockm. It makes sense in my mind that if I were to chop, say, 50% off, that the energy would be more evenly dispersed, roots/foliage. I gave it a little food and will probably feed it lightly assuming it survives so it has plenty of nutrients.

That's really not how it works. Removing 50 percent of the foliage doesn't redistribute energy. It removes it. Plants make their own food. Fertilizer won't help much as it is not "food." Plants make their own food. removing all that foliage reduces the plant's ability to make that food. Also roots that have been disturbed can't work very well until they've resettled and, if you've removed significant roots when you dug it up, it wil have to regenerate large portions of the root mass. Those roots won't be efficient enough to help sustain the plant for weeks. Adding fertilizer now is mostly a waste of time. The roots aren't using it.

 

[Cajunrider]

That's really not how it works. Removing 50 percent of the foliage doesn't redistribute energy. It removes it. Plants make their own food. Fertilizer won't help much as it is not "food." Plants make their own food. removing all that foliage reduces the plant's ability to make that food. Also roots that have been disturbed can't work very well until they've resettled and, if you've removed significant roots when you dug it up, it wil have to regenerate large portions of the root mass. Those roots won't be efficient enough to help sustain the plant for weeks. Adding fertilizer now is mostly a waste of time. The roots aren't using it.

@Mtpowell205
I agree with Mr Moyogi. For right now keep the tree out of water demanding conditions (too much sun, wind etc..) because the damaged roots will not be able to supply as much water. At the same time, keep as much foliage as possible so the tree can gather energy from the sun to grow new roots. It's a balance that we all have to find for each tree we have at any stage of development. By the way when the roots are cut or not healthy, adding fertilizer reduces water transport up the tree and makes things worse.

 

[Mtpowell205]

@Mtpowell205
I agree with Mr Moyogi. For right now keep the tree out of water demanding conditions (too much sun, wind etc..) because the damaged roots will not be able to supply as much water. At the same time, keep as much foliage as possible so the tree can gather energy from the sun to grow new roots. It's a balance that we all have to find for each tree we have at any stage of development. By the way when the roots are cut or not healthy, adding fertilizer reduces water transport up the tree and makes things worse.

Thank you both. The soil I got it out of was very rich in clay, so the feeder roots weren’t as abundant as I would have liked.
While we are on the subject of nutrient transport, what are your thoughts on mycorrhizial innoculants? Again, seems like a good idea. @rockm

 

[rockm]

Thank you both. The soil I got it out of was very rich in clay, so the feeder roots weren’t as abundant as I would have liked.
While we are on the subject of nutrient transport, what are your thoughts on mycorrhizial innoculants? Again, seems like a good idea. @rockm

Again, mostly a waste of money and time. Mycorrhiza is species-specific. What you're spending money on is likely NOT the type the tree needs (if it need it at all). Best way to get the appropriate myc into the soil, is to just let it be. It will show up on its own.

Since the tree had very little feeder roots, inoculants are mostly useless, as is any fertilizer. Only time and proper aftercare--watering in particular--I'd also be cautious about the soil you've made. It could be a problem.

 

[Gabler]

Thank you both. The soil I got it out of was very rich in clay, so the feeder roots weren’t as abundant as I would have liked.
While we are on the subject of nutrient transport, what are your thoughts on mycorrhizial innoculants? Again, seems like a good idea. @rockm

I’ve tried them and noticed no real difference. There’s fungal spores everywhere, in your hair and underwear. Fungus will colonize your soil on its own if conditions are right. If conditions are wrong, it won’t grow from inoculants anyway.

 

[TN_Jim]

Thanks TN_Jim. I’m the enthusiast/novice who is going for bonsai on the cheap. My mix is mostly soil conditioner from Lowe’s and perlite (sifted through a beach net). I did put some sphagnum moss around the roots like a good boy though.

I have used sifted pine bark soil conditioner to great success in different mixes or just by itself with great success; however, perlite in freeze thaw cycles will turn to dust…I keep perlite for houseplants only.

 

[Cajunrider]

Next target species for me: Tupelo and American Hornbeam. Tupelo I know I can find easily. Hornbeam may be a bit tougher because my area is at the edge of the range.

 

[Mtpowell205]

Two new collections. One Oak, one Elm. Pretty pleased with the roots I got on the oak, hoping for the best with the elm. With the judgment I got with my overly organic soil (lol) I went out and got some floor dry ($8.75 for a bag), sifted out the really fine stuff, and went lighter on the organic part of stuff so it wound up being closer to 50% perlite, 30% floor dry, 20% sifted pine bark/soil conditioner. Really hoping the elm does okay because it was a really surprising find down here in Alabama and I'm a sucker for an elm.



oak

elm

hidden behind the wood pile (yes, it gets cold in Alabama)

 

[Mtpowell205]

I’ve tried them and noticed no real difference. There’s fungal spores everywhere, in your hair and underwear. Fungus will colonize your soil on its own if conditions are right. If conditions are wrong, it won’t grow from inoculants anyway.

So you're saying we should be planting our trees in our underwear?

 

[Gabler]

So you're saying we should be planting our trees in our underwear?

Yes

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Two new collections. One Oak, one Elm. Pretty pleased with the roots I got on the oak, hoping for the best with the elm. With the judgment I got with my overly organic soil (lol) I went out and got some floor dry ($8.75 for a bag), sifted out the really fine stuff, and went lighter on the organic part of stuff so it wound up being closer to 50% perlite, 30% floor dry, 20% sifted pine bark/soil conditioner. Really hoping the elm does okay because it was a really surprising find down here in Alabama and I'm a sucker for an elm.

View attachment 480787
View attachment 480788
oak
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elm
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hidden behind the wood pile (yes, it gets cold in Alabama)
View attachment 480791

Soil conditioner ( turface backed clay fullers earth even DE ) are very close to the same thing . Yes it’s cheap coarse materiel . Unlike a lot no I don’t dislike it . Your problem
Is going to be it’s very moisture retentive. So is the organic soil you have added . Traditional coarse soil . Pumice lava . Perlite . Create fast drainage and moisture rich oxygen rich spaces . For roots to grow .( without getting more complicated and long winded ) your organic mix is not all bad but over watering is your enemy . Be very careful in my humble opinion . Your best chance is make sure it gets fairly close to dry but make sure you fully very heavily water it . Then Make sure it gets dry again . Tree nurseries use organic light cheap soil . That is water retentive . You must consider business reasons ( cheap less labour needed ) Organic soil in the ground has the advantage of gravity . Water wants to stay together so it drains thru soil into the water table . In the ground . Pulling oxygen into the ground . You loss that drainage in a pot . Hence the rise of loose organic soil ( pine bark peat moss etc) and the bonsai culture of coarse high drainage oxygen rich substrate hope this helps

 

[KateM]

American hornbeam. Just collected and with planting angle change.

 

[Cajunrider]

American hornbeam. Just collected and with planting angle change.View attachment 481256View attachment 481257View attachment 481259View attachment 481260

Very nice trunk movement.

 

[KateM]

Very nice trunk movement.

Thank you! Can't wait for you to move to PA! I'll be there with bells on to pick up some BCs.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Failure no 3 this is common needle juniper. . Collected last spring . These trees are notorious hard to collect and survive . I am 2 for 5 lifetime . I had great hope for this one it was a rock pocket tree . Tree was laying on a flat chunk of granite so all growth was one sided . I got a lot of healthy roots . In the pocket severed the tap root going into a crack . Left all the foliage . It sulked then pushed new growth . Moved into better light fir the summer looked happy then started to decline . As the leaves fell off the Dicid trees . Going into winter storage it was about 1/2 green . I don’t consider it a winter death loss . Unsure think I should have protected it from the excessive heavy rain last spring . Very disappointed there was a very nice windswept one sided tree in there

 

[Mtpowell205]

Driving down the road when I saw a root ball and some green stuff on the side of the road. Whipped it around and what do I find? A perfectly healthy…juniper? I think?


6’ from top of root ball to tip.

Didn’t have a ton of time so I just took a hack saw and did a Peter Chan “cake cut” to reduce the root ball, threw it in a big pot and tossed some dirt around it. Then I tried to reduce it a bit.

Don’t know where I’m headed with this one yet. May be able to split it into multiple small trees when I take the time to find the nebari and analyze it better. Did do a few chops on stuff I would definitely not keep to make it manageable.




We’ll see. About to move from Birmingham, AL to the Detroit area, who knows if it will make it.