Starting Satsuki from seed

[Glaucus]

I haven't seen any pictures of 'Hortinno Lime Green' opened flowers. But I have 'Hortinno Lime Peach' and it is a bit of a different colour. I actually had to ask a wholesaler to sell me a few plants directly, as I couldn't really find it easily.
For a cream colour, I would try a Hortinno Lime Green x Oryu cross, if I had those plants. But likely both are not hardy. And Oryu is said to grow poorly. Since they put Hortinno Lime Green in production, I assume it grows and produces very well in their greenhouse conditions.

I think 'Panda' and 'Everest' aren't very useful in breeding for an off-white. I have 'Panda' but I am not impressed. I found that the best pure white obtusum type European azalea is 'Maischnee'. I should have some 'Maischnee' x 'Hanatsuzuri seedlings that flower for the first time this year. 'Panda' was developed to grow well in Scotland at the Cox/Glendoick nursery, where they had issues with many traditional evergreen azaleas. They even made an 'Arctic Panda'.
I thought 'Panda' might be interesting to use as a white form of R.kiusianum. But it is already quite different, because 'Everest' is the parent.

R.mucronatum based hybrids and R.kiusianum based hybrids should both be very hardy. Like zone 6 hardy.

'Green Glow' and 'Olga Niblett' will also be hard to find. There's some other cream coloured ones. 'Ryokka-no-Izumi' a sport of 'Asahi no Izumi'. ‘Sandra's Green Ice’ by Dr.McDonald.
'Melba's Dream' seems very similar to 'Senbazuru'. It has the same petal mutation, I would say.
But apparently it is a different plant, according to Bob Stelloh:

"The evergreen azalea 'Melba's Dream' was hybridized
about 1977 and grown to first flower about 1980 by
Andrew Rudko, a nurseryman of Somerville, NJ. In the
International Rhododendron Register, Melba's Dream is
described as follows:

Seed parent: 'Lois'(a lavender-flowered evergreen
azalea; name not registered)

Pollen parent: an unnamed, yellow-flowered Exbury
azalea"

Another odd azalea that may be available is 'Kakie': https://azaleadatabase.com/cultivar/777/
I tries to guess a possible parentage that matches the parent percenage given.
You notice in those Yellow evergreen azalea articles the name of Bob Pryor. Apparently, 'Kakie' is the only widely grown azalea left over from that effort.
The easiest thing to do is to drive all across the US, go to White's Nursery; https://www.whites-nursery.com/inventory.html
And buy 'Brenda Marie' and 'Mizu-no-Yamabuki' from them. And hope to raise seedlings from that cross. Then hope they combine the cream colour and the blotch. If not, try F2.
And in the mean time, if you manage to obtain the other rare plants, feed those into the breeding project. That said, people have tried this and they largely failed. But it can still be fun to try.

 

[GeologicalForms]

Yes it is unfortunate that most of the “green”s we have access to are notoriously weak plants. I went to the Hortinno’s website and it looks like they’ve got a number of interesting azaleas. I keep seeing impressive Belgian Indica’s, I know they’re not very hardy but it’s been tempting to use them in crosses anyway.

All of these cream cultivars look like they belong solidly on my wish list, unfortunately acquiring them won’t be easy. I could see stopping by White’s Nursery on the way back from the US Bonsai nationals someday though.

I actually have ‘Maischnee’ and did do some crosses with it, mostly to orange deciduous azaleas if I recall correctly, There’s some nice green blotches on that one. What I like about ‘Panda’ are it’s small, dark and particularly round leaves, probably not a good one to cross anything with if you’re trying to stabilize the flavonoids though, seeing as it’s flowers have no visible coloration in the blotch or the throat. ‘Pure White Julia’ is the same way, just completely snow white flowers, though it’s blooms are much larger than ’Panda’s. I have a R.kiusianum white form and it’s leaves and blooms are smaller than ‘Panda’s, it seems like they both fit almost in that semi evergreen category but Panda keeps a little more of it’s leaves and grows thicker branches. My least favorite attribute of ‘Panda’ and kuisianum is the leaf drop, though I suppose it would make wiring in winter a little easier.

‘Kaki’ looks like a pretty interesting plant too, the form appears much more indicum in the pictures than deciduous, but the orange-red may be oranger than our best indicum in the category. Orange is another thing we don’t really have in satsuki’s, I tend to enjoy the salmon colored orange-pink ones more than the orange-reds, which all seem to have more pink than the true reds without really being any oranger.

I picked up a couple clones of ‘Mizu-no-Yamabuki‘ at Van Veens nursery right here in Portland last year, unfortunately it was long after they’d finished blooming so I didn’t get to cross with it. Van Veens is a fantastic legacy nursery, I’ve done some volunteer work for with the ARS, they’ve got a ton of azaleas so I’ll have to see if they’ve got ‘Brenda Marie’ or any of the other’s we’ve mentioned, it’s Van Veens hundredth year in operation this year and we’re planning a party during bloom season to celebrate. I noticed ‘Brenda Marie’ interestingly enough is a seedling of ‘Elsie Lee’, I can’t find any images on the other parent but I wonder where the large blotch comes from, elsie doesn’t really have much of one but it could be a recessive trait. ‘Sandra's Green Ice’ is also a seedling of ‘Elsie Lee’, since I crossed so much with that one I might just stumble upon a green or cream seedling accidentally, despite my crosses with it being mostly for lavenders and violets. It’s possible the greenish backdrop may have the potential to unlock all sorts of uncommon colors.

What would be your pick to replace pine bark in your soil if you couldn’t get it? We don’t have it in Portland because you’d have to go all the way to the desert or the coast to see any pines. I have access to Cedar bark, Fir bark or Hemlock bark, and wood mulch with what I assume to be freshly ground Douglas Fir. I’ve called several different nurseries and landscaping companies and they all say we’d have to import pine bark so we don’t carry it.

-Sol Z

 

[Glaucus]

White's Nursery doesn't ship and one doesn't just drive across the US. Especially not to buy plants. But they do sell 'Brenda Marie' currently. It is a fairly new variety by Joe Klimavicz. So not as likely to find in older collections.
The normal white R.mucronatum azaleas like Fielder's White, Glacier or Mary Helen, are pretty easy to grow. But they are ordinary white and have large leaves and a coarse growth habit. In terms of satsuki, there is also Gumpo.
But in terms of bonsai, small leaves, and compact foliage pads, you'd want Hakurei or Hakurin, which I believe may be very rare in the US.

@Deep Sea Diver has commented that in the Pacific NW, it is the Kozan-type and narrow-leaved varieties that are lacking. So that would be Hakurei, Hakurin/Korin, but also Kozan/Nikki/Aozora/Komei, etc.
If you cross those with the white azaleas we discussed, you'd also lose those specific traits of compact growth, small symmetrical flowers, and narrow leaves.
Using instead a white form of R.kiusiaunum can maybe keep flowers small. Tings like Oryu or Brenda Marie are basically the opposite of Hakurei or Kozan.

I don't know if there is actually a difference between pine bark or Douglas fir bark. I also still wonder about if composted wood is not better than either bark or composted bark.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

There is no doubt there are many suitable azaleas for landscape in the Puget Sound region. However the paucity of azaleas suitable for the bonsai community is remarkable at this point. Sure there are plenty of Northern Azaleas, Satsuki and Kurume out in the greater azalea community,,, just not here. Also not many folks (anymore) who still know how to properly handle these as bonsai. Which is one of the reasons we began propagation and teaching classes.

imho strong new small medium flowered/leafed cultivars in this market area would be well accepted.

(Especially as there are very few Satsuki American made cultivars. Imho Polo is the best… and the very best red flower in the satsuki world… yet it can be brittle when bending.)

Just some thoughts…

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[GeologicalForms]

Well friends, the planting has begun! I’m nearly through my first jar of seed packets and I must say: these plants are obviously more receptive to human crossing than succulents because I have got a ton of seed! It’s honestly a little overwhelming, particularly in the evergreen x evergreen crosses, I’m getting somewhere between 20 and 100+ viable looking seeds per pod. A few from wide crosses have been seedless, but I didn’t expect to see these kind of results from the others. R nakahara, R indicum, R mucronatum, R kuisianum, R oldhamii and R kaempferi all seem to cross freely. Of course that judgement is only based on the quality of the seed I’m seeing. There is a large amount of decent looking seed from some of the evergreen x deciduous too. Lots of work ahead, and hopefully some good plants!

Glaucus,
I did have two gumpo whites in my 2025 program, it’s the second most common satsuki here next to it’s pink counterpart but it does have nice small obovate leaves and a compact habit. The lanceolate ones you described are quite nice, I’ve come to see those longer sharp leaves to be a pure R. indicum trait mostly because my ‘mucranthum pink’ and my indicum species both have that leaf shape. I have struggled to find an example of the other primary contributor to satsuki genetics: R. eriocarpum, but I imagine it’s leaves to be rounder not that I’ve ever seen it, you simply can’t buy that one over here despite our fairly passionate rhododendron species fans, which also leads me to guess that it’s not hardy. But let’s face it; satsuki’s are a deeply hybridized group and there’s more than those two subspecies to blame for the variety we see. I will agree that even in the satsuki we have here we’re at a loss for the classic small sharp leaves, plants like ‘Kusudama’ and ‘Nuccio’s Wild Moon’ are more common and have the much larger ovate leaves. I have none of those hybrids you listed, my smallest lanceolate hybrid is ‘Chinsei’, and I only have a few others that fit that description. I’ve crossed heavily with ‘Kazan’ to try and get some “diamond cut” rhomboid leaves on compact plants. ‘Nikkaino Tsuaka’ has really nice leaves too, more oblanceolate, but very small and compact. It’s unfortunate to hear that the compact habit and smaller leaves will likely be pushed to the background in my crosses to these bulkier American hybrids, because I did do some of that to increase hardiness.



DSD,
Yes I do agree that ‘Polo’ is among the best reds, my favorite thing about it is the wide petals, I got a clone of it from Bonsai NW and it bloomed through fall and is sending out fresh blooms now. It definitely has been a challenge to accumulate the collection I have, and many of the small leaved satsuki’s had to be shipped despite my persistent hunting at local PNW nurseries.

Cheers!
-Sol Z

 

[Glaucus]

Yes, they make a ton of seeds. But the downside is they are small. I guess the same is true for Sempervivum. With azaleas, you can get nice fat seed pods with 100 to 500 seeds. Just 20 seeds, I would consider poor. But still very usable.

I have not seen any significant difference in seed pod size or seed pod likelihood in normal crosses between evergreen azaleas. They hybridize readily. Same is true for germination and seedling health.
The only issues are polyploidy and evergreen x deciduous. Those may germinate poorly. But getting seeds is the first hurdle. And if they germinate they can be albino or chimeric.

I tried to google what 'Chinsei' is exactly. I and I found Callaham and some ASA azalea experts argue if it is or is not the same as 'Chinzan'. It seems it hasn't appeared in a recent satsuki dictionary.
Yes, R.eriocarpum has rounder leaves. But other genetics can also make R.indicum hybrids have rounder leaves.

In that respect, this is a good post:

G

Post in thread 'Glaucus Satsuki Azalea farm'

Jul 19, 2023

People sometimes ask about how to recognize different satsuki. And about how maruba satsuki and regular satsuki compare. Or what is the difference between narrow leaf northern varieties and round leaf southern varieties. This of course relates to the two different species the Japanese name 'satsuki'; Rhododendron indicum and Rhododendron eriocarpum (also called R.tamurae)

So for this, I took 4 seedlings from 4 different crosses. Since these are newly created hybrids, they do not fully represent the traditional kurume or satsuki, or nothern vs southern, or narrow vs round leaf.

Here the...

• Glaucus

• 

As for wild R.eriocarpum, check out this video:

Takasago, Joga, Izayoi, those are close to R.eriocarpum. Satsuki with rounded leaves but also wavy petals, which Gumpo kind of is, but Kaho/Gyoten/Eikan/Asahi no Hikari definitely are, I feel they have Belgian indica blood.
‘Asahizuru’ is given as a maruba satsuki (R.eriocarpum). But there must be Belgian indica blood in it. There might be very little R.indicum blood, but who knows.

It seems strange to me that no one bred with 'Kazan' to produce more of the diamond-shaped leaves. It may be an epigentic trait it acquired as a sport.
Not familar with 'Nikkai no Tsuaka'. There does not seem to be a Nikko no Tsukasa. Maybe Nikko no Takara? Or Kozan no Tsukasa?

https://www.azaleas.org/wp-content/uploads/azalean/23/2/Volume_23_Number_2_Summer_2001.pdf

Not impossible that Nikkai no Tsuaka does in fact exist. It is legitimate Japanese spelling. I have two old books on satsuki but they are very hard to check for these unknowns.
Most misspellings that became common are in Callaham's. Nikkai no Tsuaka isn't.
The narrow leaves seem recessive. But that also means a rounder-leaf American variety might be a carrier. But I have always been suspicious of Aikoka as the parent of Aozora/Hekisui, because Aozora/Hekisui leaves are so close to Kozan.

I added Polo to the DB. I made some crosses for a large deep red flower. But that is a challenging cross. A large deep red flower with narrow leaves/R.indicum leaf type should be possible, but doesn't really exist.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

DSD,
Yes I do agree that ‘Polo’ is among the best reds, my favorite thing about it is the wide petals, I got a clone of it from Bonsai NW and it bloomed through fall and is sending out fresh blooms now. It definitely has been a challenge to accumulate the collection I have, and many of the small leaved satsuki’s had to be shipped despite my persistent hunting at local PNW nurseries.

Cheers!
-Sol Z

This is true, Bonsai Northwest didn’t get all of the best for azalea for bonsai as the local bonsai folks bought up a bunch after the Altadena fire, but they did get a really good bunch. Be assured, their inventory will change over time. BNW is dedicated to developing into the largest source of Satsuki bonsai material in the west.

That said, BNW did obtain some excellent for bonsai Satsuki, including Juko, Chitose Nishiki, Hakatajiro, Kikisui, Kaho no Hikari, Kongo no Hikari, Shinnyo no Hikari, Shinnyo no Tsuki and Yama no Kagami to mention a few. Last fall we propagated about 40 other cultivars, including some from @Glaucus, for BNW to grow out and use as breeding stock and fill in holes in their stock. This year we may prep more, given good demand.

By and large all azaleas that came up from Nuccio’s are excellent satsuki. These all have stood the test of time, but fashions change over time and as a really great bonsai retailer, they are responding . In the US bonsai world it seems the market demand is centering on the small to medium flower/leafed Satsuki with some outliers at the medium large (not large to very large and above) end. This all makes sense when looking at two facets.

1. Time to bonsai - The average time it takes to create an azalea small medium size bonsai, goes from 5-10 years to create a good bonsai and 10-15 to create an excellent bonsai, mame not included. (With some exceptions due to expert knowledge and luck) To create a decent flower display bonsai takes 30- 45 years with good conditions and knowledge.

2. Focus of demand - Most Satsuki bonsai in a large part of the US are used as companion plants and Shohin. Part of the reason is space available to grow, another is availability of instructors who really know Satsuki and the lastly the time frame most folks have to dedicate to this hobby,

Just a few thoughts
Best
DSD sends

 

[GeologicalForms]

Glaucus,
Chinzan and Chinsei are very similar plants if not the same, but I think Chinsei is more compact not that I’ve seen Chinzan in real life, only photos. Both words are Japanese for different things; Chinsei- tranquility and Chinzan- rare mountain. Unfortunately the flowers on both are about as common as could be in a satsuki, so there’s no help there in distinguishing them.
The azalea article is awesome, but yes it doesn’t list Nikko no Tsukasa, it’s parentage is Nikko x Raiko so possibly a direct sibling of ‘Kyokosui’. Red Jewel patterns with white centers in addition to the fantastic small foliage and compact form. ‘Kakuo’ is another I have with nice fine foliage, in addition to a few others, got the clone of that second hand from telperion farms and haven’t seen it available elsewhere.
It’s great that you’re building up that database, internet descriptions of many satsuki’s are lacking and the nature of spelling japanese words using english characters has caused much confusion.
I’ll have to look into the more R eriocarpum heavy varieties you mentioned, I’d love to have some of those around.
My ‘Aikoka‘ does actually have leaves with wider centers and more triangular tips than most, the leaves are just unfortunately large, leathery and coarsely distributed, but the shape is in the ballpark of a scaled up ‘Kazan’. I did cross with it but more for flower than form.
For a good red with the thin leaves maybe ‘Summer Sun’ with ‘Polo’? summer sun is more on the calmer orange red spectrum but I could see Polo adding it’s depth to the color. I really like ‘Girard’s Hot Shot’ as a strong/true red, but it definitely has those uninteresting tsutsuji leaves.

DSD,
I wonder if I possibly met you on my trip up to bonsai NW? I bought ten azaleas which was the limit for 1gallons I was able to bring across the Oregon border for personal use without proper paperwork. I was trying to get them hooked on my pottery as a wholesale client so I brought a ton of planters up with me and was showing them off, that was back in October 2025. They were teaching a class that day. Already it is the best one-stop-shop for satsuki in the PNW. My collection has been amassed from many many sources but finding more than ten satsukis that I actually want and don’t have in one place was a big treat and there’s still reason to go buy more from them soon. My overwintering situation isn’t the most accommodating right now though so I’m trying to use some restraint when buying cultivars that haven’t been tested in our weather, since this is BNW’s first winter with most of them I’m looking forward to hearing what they say about the different varieties performance so far north, though I did suggest they preserve the collection in a greenhouse this winter. Some are so tender even an unheated greenhouse isn’t enough, but also it’s been an uncharacteristically mild winter here so it’s possible we don’t get a good test of hardiness this year.
Yes I feel like the consensus here is a trend towards small leaves, I’ve never seen a classic japanese style “flower tower” in the US, not that I’ve been to a ton of exhibitions, but I have seen plenty of nice shohin azalea bonsai which is a fun way to train them and validates tighter growth. I have some longterm training going on in my garden but unfortunately that involves them not looking like bonsai for a long time, so I think less folks will have the patience for that here. I’ll probably train a flower tower or two as well just for fun but I have nothing like that in my collection now. Just shrubs shohin and 40 year plans to greatness.
-Sol Z

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Well, not likely as I’ve been down there only about six times last year. We live 60 miles north, so even though my better half and I volunteer weekly at PBM, we rarely get south after work. Would likely not get there prior to closing.

Most Satsuki will need some form of shelter in our area to come through the winter without injury (frost, animal or other physical stuff) and are robust and healthy ready for a full year of bonsai work.

Cold frames, with plants dug and mulched in will work well while in nursery mix and not wired or refined. Once in kanuma mix and beginning to be refined a much better solution needs to be used… greenhouse etc. one does want the media frozen in any case. By and large a “cold greenhouse” (kept 32.5-42F and not freezing) usually will give one about a month on either side of the growing year.

For much more complete winter over information and options see this resource.

Cheers
DSD sends.

 

[GeologicalForms]

Thanks for the info DSD,
I know John heats his satsuki greenhouse when it gets to 40 degrees F or below, my sunroom gets colder than that in extreme weather but is much warmer than outside, my cold frame is open ended on both sides so it gets almost as cold as the outdoors but I can control moisture and limit wind in it which is helpful. VanVeens only heats their propogation greenhouses and not their main growing houses, so nothing they sell is particularly tender.

Glaucus,
Update: I may actually have been wrong about ’Nikko no Tsuaka’, just checked the label and it’s spelled ‘Nikaino Tsuaka’, so maybe they are the same plant, the label is wrong and the parentage I mentioned is correct, or it’s a different cultivar all together. There was no flower description available in Callaham's book, so I can’t verify anything about it based on comparison. Probably the same, but not sure… here’s the label:

 

[Glaucus]

In terms of cold weather, it snowed here, then was quite windy while freezing, which is rare here, and then temperatures dropped to -11C during the night. Some satsuki have brown summer leaves that they did not drop.




Some Belgian indica did mostly turn brown, as if it might die.
Since it seems to have depended on the exact position of the plant and if they had snow cover or not, these are large whips, I suspect it was the wind at 'warmer' temperatures (not sure maybe -5C/23F) rather than the drop towards -11C/12F with less windy conditions. But it could be the combination.

On the satsuki, there is no damage on the spring leaves. And one I moved indoors and while the brown leaves have curled up and drop when touched, it is already putting out new growth normally.
Surprisingly, I have a Belgian indica on the other side of the house that has no damage at all.

The 'Nikaino Tsuaka' label says 5F/-15C, which is quite a reasonable estimate for the hardiness of a mature landscape satsuki planted in the ground.
I recently had some communication with a nursery in Poland, and they have Gumpo and claim it is hardy for them.
A Czech nursery sells Haru no Sono here and lists it at -21C/-6F. But the quality and length of the summer play a major role. If you have a Scottish summer, it seems very doubtful that they will take 0F or lower.

In terms of temperature changes during winter, during this time of year I often check the weather in Kanuma, and I often see -5C/23F during the night and up to 16C/61F during the day, for several days. Much bigger temp changes than I would have here.
While it is often said that wet Dutch winters with many freeze-thaw cycles are the issue. Temperatures above 15C, especially with direct sunlight on the plant, and the satsuki are going to wake up. They wake up quite readily and rapidly if it has been sufficiently cold already, but then gets significantly warmer. I saw some images from people in the UK with growth on their satsuki already. Which can also happen because people falsely try to shelter their satsuki from all frost.
R.nakaharae genetics are actually best for getting seedling that stay dormant.

'Tsuaka' is not a real word in Japanese, I just checked. So this spelling is a mistake. And the one in Callaham says 'Nikko no Tsukasa'. So not Tsuaka. Which shows mistakes are easily made. I would compare the flowers to 'Nikko no Tsukasa'.
There's so many sports of Kozan and Nikko, many of them I have not yet added to my site.

I have not seen 'Aikoka' in person, so maybe the leaves are less round than I would imagine. I always thought it would be similar to 'Kaho'.
As for 'Kakuo', that one is often said to be a weak variety. Which is a bit surprising to me because I have found satsuki x obtusum/kurume/R.kiusianum/R.kaempferi seedlings can be robust like the latter.
Maybe it is the 'Kozan'/'Nikko' genetics, though. As that variety grows slowly and does seem to give some wimpy seedlings in some crossed. Specifically in my cross Ae22 x 'Kozan'. Some odd dwarf growth and among the few plants I just found that died during late summer to now, was one of them. One the contrary, my Suisen (probably diploid form) x Ae4 plants are very robust. And their leaves look among some of the best right now.
But in my 'Little Red' x 'Kozan' cross, those plants seemed much more robust.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

The minute one puts a bonsai in a pot in bonsai media, all cold hardiness bets are off. This is well known.

A National bonsai award winning deciduous tree expert from Portland area presented to our large club a couple years ago. Dennis V described the damage to his trees (fine ramification destroyed etc) upon moving north from California. He stated after experiencing the damage to his trees he will alway use at least a cold frame.

Good genetics will help. The damage tends to come in many areas to azaleas in bonsai pots. Loss of fine ramification and or foliage, root damage, and quickly degrading media are the main ones we see.

It doesn’t help that folks unknowledgeable in azalea bonsai, but knowledgeable in other bonsai slam these plants in shallow pots using the “thickness of the trunk vs pot depth rule” fostered by bonsai books written my famous bonsai authors.

What doesn’t help is Japanese Satsuki are exhibited in rented heritage shallow pots. Then, after the show are planted back in deep boxes or large, deep Tokoname containers. A good example is these Satsuki displayed in Kokofu the other day.


That said, it’s good to experiment with wintering over technique in your area. When we first started out with only 12 cultivars that’s what we did. (Regretfully we also lost years worth of growth at times). With over 120 cultivars now, mostly in bonsai pots, we are done experimenting with wintering care. Our experiments are mainly limited to growth and styling nowadays.

Cheers
DSD sends

Btw: Van Veen has been known to use misspelled or Americanized names on azaleas I.e. Rukizon vs Kazan (personal experience)

 

[Glaucus]

That blue pot is definitely too small. But the other ones, they should be good in terms of size for a long-term pot, right?
Definitely I suspect that satsuki that are displayed in these shows go into the wooden grow boxes they love to use for a few years, to cycle back to a bonsai pot, then to a grow box again.
Again, I don't definitely have this knowledge, but it seems as though threes that were just on display, go back in these wooden boxes, are then allowed to grow out freely, then get a very hard prune, then slowly get their foliage pads rebuilt with newly grown fine ramification, to return to the point in the cycle of going back into a bonsai pot, to then be put on display once more.
There's videos of satsuki nurseries on YT and that shows about half the trees in boxes, half in pots like picture 1 and 2. But it also shows trees with dead apexes. Satsuki aren't supposed to have fat trunks like these, and eventually that gives them troubles.

Almost all my satsuki are in plastic pots. I do now have a few in shallow dish-shaped pots that are more like bonsai pots. But these shallow bowls should be similar enough. I don't believe I see more winter cold issues on them than on the other azaleas.
The hypothesis that cold winter kills the fine roots of azaleas in pots, not sure I have seen evidence for that. Bark spit, sure, damaged spring leaves, sure. Damaged leaf tips, sure. Damaged new spring growth, sure. Damaged active growing tips in autumn, sure. Losing branches and losing ramification is definitely a thing on satsuki bonsai. Especially if they have very refined foliage pads, but then incur stress or an insult to their health. You need optimal health for foliage pads as fine as these. And then it also keeps sense to have climate control and keep temperatures between 0 and 5C (32-41F).

Even at the Kokufu, you can see the satsuki that curl their leaves and don't look as nice. And those who have very firm leaves. I am a bit surprised that there aren't more kurume/obtusum type azaleas at the Kokufu, though. They are more treelike and have better foliage in winter. But are more challenging to get such a dense foliage pads, with excellent negative space.

But I am a bit surprised to hear DSD has had winter hardiness issues. Was it not from one unusual year with a rogue polar vortex?

 

[GeologicalForms]

Glaucus,
‘Kakuo’ does seem a little wimpy honestly, I lost my parent plant last year and it was one of only two plants I lost so that probably says something. I have about 10 cuttings of it from 2024 that I’m growing on now, I brought a couple into the sunroom for winter and they are putting out spring growth already, the ones I left outside are fine but not growing. Great leaves on it and it is a somewhat classic cultivar though.

Hopefully I can find a plant of 'Nikko no Tsukasa' to compare to mine since I used it heavily in crosses and it’d be valuable for me to verify it’s name. I also really enjoy that plant. It’s so exciting to find new satsuki cultivars at nurseries here, but many have poorly maintained cultivar names. Errors are common even at the most reputable nurseries.

DSD,
Very good to hear that there’s a rotation involved behind some of those bizarre looking pot-tree combinations. One might assume they’d somehow managed to grow them in those pots for years. I recently acquired a nice shohin azalea in a super shallow pot and my immediate inclination was to uppot it in the fall, then a friend of mine complimented it’s shallow root system and I pridefully decided to leave it in that constrained environment, only one I lost this winter. Any time I get a new plant I try to repot it as soon as possible, you never get the whole story on how the previous owner treated that plant, they can get used to conditions and have difficulty adapting to your own. I have a friend who grows his plants in a greenhouse in the shade, we do planter-for-tree trades sometimes and getting them to grow well in my outdoor part-sun garden is always a process.

I have been making some really nice pots with a little depth to them, using texture, slimline feet, form and thick rims to sort of trick the eye into thinking they’re more shallow than they actually are. Obviously it’s great to have that classic trident maple look but azaleas are a whole different story.

I’ve put some of my upright azaleas in cascade pots even though it may not be entirely correct to do so, but as long as I’m not displaying them in a show it doesn’t bother me, they still look nice and grow well that way.

-Sol Z