Starting an azalea

[berobinson82]

Greetings!

I found a neat trunk on an azalea at the nursery and decided to give it a go. I'm looking around the web about how to best get this gal started. Would I be correct in assuming I can hack this thing back to the trunk line and it will push new growth, no problem, like a maple would?



Also, since it's in 2 year old nursery soil, would this be a good time to also put this in some bonsai soil?

Thank you,

-B

 

[rockm]

"I can hack this thing back to the trunk line and it will push new growth, no problem, like a maple would?"

Not a safe assumption. Drastic chops can produce alot of die back on big azalea trunks.

 

[Ron Dennis]

Greetings!

I found a neat trunk on an azalea at the nursery and decided to give it a go. I'm looking around the web about how to best get this gal started. Would I be correct in assuming I can hack this thing back to the trunk line and it will push new growth, no problem, like a maple would?

View attachment 21249

Also, since it's in 2 year old nursery soil, would this be a good time to also put this in some bonsai soil?

Thank you,

-B

I like this tree and am curious as why you are thinking of such a drastic cut back? Looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.

 

[jk_lewis]

If you do decide to take it down, PLEASE do it over 4-5 years. Many azalea do not like being guillotined.

And in Central Va, I think I'd wait a couple of weeks before repotting.

 

[berobinson82]

I like this tree and am curious as why you are thinking of such a drastic cut back? Looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.

I don't have much experience nor a mentor with azalea experience. I've only found 2 clips online and they were both going mass murderer with the blades. One even bare-rooted and cut back. Seeing as how that seems so drastic to me, I asked here to gather some advice. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Unless I kill it. I've been known to do so.

 

[rockm]

Are you a member of a bonsai club? There are some pretty experienced azalea people hereabouts in Va.

I would seek some in-person advice on this one. It would be a waste of a pretty decent trunk if the tree reacts badly to chops. In Japan, azaleas are grown out in the ground for decades while trunk chops are done...I would also wait a bit before repotting this. It's still kind of early for that.

 

[rockm]

Are you a member of a bonsai club? There are some pretty experienced azalea people hereabouts in Va.

I would seek some in-person advice on this one. It would be a waste of a pretty decent trunk if the tree reacts badly to chops. In Japan, azaleas are grown out in the ground for decades while trunk chops are done...I would also wait a bit before repotting this. It's still kind of early for that.

 

[berobinson82]

Thoughts on the future?

 

[berobinson82]

Are you a member of a bonsai club? There are some pretty experienced azalea people hereabouts in Va.

I would seek some in-person advice on this one. It would be a waste of a pretty decent trunk if the tree reacts badly to chops. In Japan, azaleas are grown out in the ground for decades while trunk chops are done...I would also wait a bit before repotting this. It's still kind of early for that.

I have a meeting tonight and may join another one on Thursday if I can.

I'll certainly wait on the repotting. Another month or so I reckon. I'm terrified of roots so I'll take em down slowly. Maybe 20 - 30% at a time.

http://youtu.be/qQCYRlkcEb0

is why I thought I may be able to get away with a big chop. The nursery owner also told me that I could get aggressive with a chop but recommended I wait for a few weeks until temps stayed above 45 degrees at night.

I'm not trying to be hard headed, rockm. I appreciate all you've helped me with already. Just don't want to "leave money on the table" if I can push this gal harder. Akin to doing a quasi-trunk chop on a maple.

 

[rockm]

"Just don't want to "leave money on the table" if I can push this gal harder. Akin to doing a quasi-trunk chop on a maple.'"

In not aggressively hacking back a species that doesn't like to be worked agressively, you're not "leaving money on the table." Azalea is NOT maple and vice versa. Thinking they are similar can mean you kill the azalea. While that may not bother you now, it will down the road when you are unable to find a nice trunk like this one has. You will definitely leave money on the table if the thing kicks it...

Pushing forward is admirable, but pushing forward in the wrong direction just gets you lost.

 

[berobinson82]

"Just don't want to "leave money on the table" if I can push this gal harder. Akin to doing a quasi-trunk chop on a maple.'"

In not aggressively hacking back a species that doesn't like to be worked agressively, you're not "leaving money on the table." Azalea is NOT maple and vice versa. Thinking they are similar can mean you kill the azalea. While that may not bother you now, it will down the road when you are unable to find a nice trunk like this one has. You will definitely leave money on the table if the thing kicks it...

Pushing forward is admirable, but pushing forward in the wrong direction just gets you lost.

Okay, then how would I go about it? There are a lot of big branches that I would like to remove to make way for new growth. Start at the top and work down? Start by pruning back the twigs? I think I'm lost already and just trying to find the highway!

 

[johng]

reply from an Axe...I mean Azalea murderer...

I've only found 2 clips online and they were both going mass murderer with the blades. One even bare-rooted and cut back.

So, did you bother to look at the update of those azaleas that were so mercilessly hacked back?
(it was pretty obvious from your boarding on rude comment that you didn't) Here is what those trees looked like 3 months later... http://youtu.be/5oEB7OjlBl4

Most of those trees are now in the hands of happy owners. I have kept a few...

Photos as of this evening





Here is what they started as in July of 09.




and if you are brave enough to look at the murder weapons and one of the innocent victims (send the children out of room) click here for a few more pics

Since this experience, I have murdered 200 more satsuki...and I lost only one....not a bad percentage for someone with the audacity to prune both the branches and the roots at the same time....

But after butchering me here and on youtube... I am sure you would not be interested in my advice.

KMA,
John

 

[Harunobu]

Johng is right of course.

It seems that the Japanese with their expensive satsuki bonsai sometimes remove all or almost all foliage and just cut off all branches and let them regrow. I suspect this is to prevent reverse taper as 'finished' trees get older. It seems they don't think there is a risk, but I don't know the details.

I did hear some people warn about dieback when removing just one very large branch. Maybe when all foliage is gone it doesn't matter because all roots lose the leaves they serve and they all just grow new ones.
So yes there is some risk involved. But you will be wasting 1 or 2 years if you go about it really carefully.

You need to find the trunk line and then remove al branches that compete and 'damage' the strenght of the trunk line. I wouldn't chop out the apex of the trunk line you select. If you really think you need to do that, do it later. But I feel most bonsai people want to just cut out the whole apex a bit too often with azalea. I suspect they are thinking maples.

There seems thin branches with foliage all along the trunk. I would remove everything that can't be allowed to get fatter before it starts to grow. Anything that will cause no problems but isn't needed later you can leave on for now.
This looks like a kaempferi hybrid but I suspect they aren't very different to satsuki in how they respond to pruning. I think they also bud back on the trunk much less than most other azaleas. That's why this one has something that looks like a tree tunk to begin with.

As far as I know Japanese azalea nurseries usually dont trunk chop. Probably because it is slower. Unless they want those super short mame bonsai of course. But it seems in Japan tall and thin azalea are a lot more popular. Those do let you show off more skill.

 

[daygan]

So, did you bother to look at the update of those azaleas that were so mercilessly hacked back?
(it was pretty obvious from your boarding on rude comment that you didn't)

I really don't think that berobinson intended to be rude to anyone... His/Her comment was in response to another user's suggestion that

I like this tree and am curious as why you are thinking of such a drastic cut back? Looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.

So the statement was in response to the statement that berobinson's cut-back was drastic, and therefore comparative language was used to explain that what he/she was using as an example seemed to be, relatively, very drastic, but maybe still aceptable practice. If anything, I think berobinson was suggestion that there might be validity to the video, or at least that the video validated one possible plan for the azalea. I really don't think any disrespect was intended to anyone...

In any case, I think, johng, your added contribution to the discussion is valuable. Any time more voices with different perspectives can be added to a conversation, it's a good thing because we're able to learn just a little bit more.

 

[tmmason10]

Way to go johng. Watched a lot of your videos and you have some great stuff. That azalea looks great, thanks for adding to the conversation.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

So, did you bother to look at the update of those azaleas that were so mercilessly hacked back?
(it was pretty obvious from your boarding on rude comment that you didn't) Here is what those trees looked like 3 months later... http://youtu.be/5oEB7OjlBl4

whoa!!! hold up.... you need to take a chill pill... dude was *not* insulting you ... actually if anything he was stating that you seemed to have a good experience...

"going all mass murderer" is just a euphemism by a newer artist in regards to aggressive pruning ..... and lucky you to have found so many wonder satsuki (are they really all satsukis?? wow!) trunks I am personally very jealous (and would treat them the same way.... maybe even remove more )

 

[johng]

whoa!!! hold up.... you need to take a chill pill... dude was *not* insulting you ... actually if anything he was stating that you seemed to have a good experience...

I disagree...and we all know perception is everything...and most of you likely did not see the ill-conceived comment he left on my video...that is where this started.

If you are looking for help, I think most people would do so in polite manner... implying someone you don't even know doesn't have clue as to what they are doing, twice...is anything but polite and as I mentioned previously I personally find it rude and offensive. I think if you take a look at my videos when folks ask question politely I always answer... but when they are not polite..I am usually a smart ass or rude right back...

 

[berobinson82]

So, did you bother to look at the update of those azaleas that were so mercilessly hacked back?
(it was pretty obvious from your boarding on rude comment that you didn't) Here is what those trees looked like 3 months later... http://youtu.be/5oEB7OjlBl4

Most of those trees are now in the hands of happy owners. I have kept a few...

But after butchering me here and on youtube... I am sure you would not be interested in my advice.

KMA,
John

Whoa. Wait. How was I being rude? That was surely not my intention. Yes. I did check. I messaged you on youtube and you replied with exclamation. I thanked you politely for your reply.

I've been following your videos and learning from your instruction since before I owned a tree and value your advice tremendously. Your video was partly the reason to even pick up an azalea.

Perhaps I am mistaken that this community is made of people with different ways of communicating. My hyperbole was not an attempt at your technique.

I'm shocked that you would take it as such.
I'll apologize for my descriptor and thank you again for the information you provided via youtube.

Please check my commenting history and you'll see that I'm a fairly appreciative, self-labeled neophyte and have never done harm to anyone here.
I'm disappointed that my comments are ill-conceived in your eyes.

If I have treated you with less respect than you feel you deserve, I sincerely apologize.

To the other members of this board, I hope you understand and appreciate my position. Everyone is new at some point. I hope you all don't take offense to my communications.



-B

 

[rockm]

I never took your questions as anything but honest inquiry.

I understand that starting out in bonsai is extremely confusing and it's not all that intuitive. Up against intmidating plant material starting out requires questions, LOTS of them.

Don't apologize for asking questions. You can't get anywhere without them.

Edit-Took me a while to see what comment was being referenced. The 'mass murder" quote was pretty harmless and pretty much defines how I approach some trees. Call me Charles Manson, but taking offense at a comment like that would be a stretch for me...

 

[johng]

Whoa. Wait. How was I being rude?

-B

B...I have sent you a PM explaining my position and apologizing. This is not about being new or asking questions...as some have suggested. Just for the record I had not seen your thank you to my reply to your question until this morning. And although I had some fun with the mass murder comment, that is not at all what I took offense to... Read my PM and I think you will have a better understanding of my position and reaction.