Gabler
Masterpiece
Anyway, it seems Freeman's maples behave the same.
Species Study - Acer Freemani
- Thread starter HorseloverFat
- Start date
Frozentreehugger
Masterpiece
This is what I was getting at about being careful about young trees . Thinking there unique small leaf . I have a high degree of trust all three examples are genetically from the same seed source . Nothing has been done to reduce size . Seed source is one of 2 trees . My yard and across the street . Smallest leaf is grown from seed this is second year . Middle is young tree dug out of the yard . Maybe 4 years old . Third is grown from seed about 15 years ago planted next door in the ground . This is the leaf shape and size of the parent trees . I am confident they will all look like this mature leaf eventually. these are silver maple . When young the most mature one I thought was unique deep leaf cut . That you see in some silver . And seedlings around the area act the same . Point is all nature to same form . What can be done to reduce is yet to be seen . I will admit the smallest are smaller than others . It was repotted this spring .
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Frozentreehugger
Masterpiece
You are correct in the thread he does show . A first flush leaf that appears every bit full size . Compared to say a street tree . I thought he had achieved some reduction from bonsai culture for so long . But it appears not so32 year old Acer Rubrum
This tree has appeared in some other threads but I thought it deserving of it own. This was the first tree I ever collected (1987-1988) and it was out of my own woods. It was stumped a few inches above the ground line and then let grow for a season to recover as well as it could. The following...www.bonsainut.com
32 year old Acer Rubrum
This tree has appeared in some other threads but I thought it deserving of it own. This was the first tree I ever collected (1987-1988) and it was out of my own woods. It was stumped a few inches above the ground line and then let grow for a season to recover as well as it could. The following...
32 year old Acer Rubrum
This tree has appeared in some other threads but I thought it deserving of it own. This was the first tree I ever collected (1987-1988) and it was out of my own woods. It was stumped a few inches above the ground line and then let grow for a season to recover as well as it could. The following...
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
For the last four years I’ve been generally abusive a forest of Autumn Blaze that were sent to me from Michigan or one of those mid western states perhaps, about 20 for a dollar. I potted some, gave some away and stuck the rest in a forest pot… except one. Not a work of art, but just a group of trees. The forest was actually made in late fall 2019. No photos exist of it.
Here it is June 2020 - 12 trunks, actually 13, but I got two to fuse.
April 2021 - in the fall of 2020 I started to see if cutting from the autumn cutback would strike. I usually either stuck them right after cutting or let the cutting lie through a freeze then strike these. No internally placed cuttings took. One pushed on the edge. It has survived,
Oct 2021 - This fall two cuttings pushed and survived.
.
In the intervening time the forest has been cut back in the past two winters, harder in winter of 2022. No cutting survived this winter.
Today June 2023 before harder cutback. This cutback is an attempt to great more movement, get the trees more gnarly.
After cutback - Note the cutback wasn’t severe, the most trunk removed was 4” or so down from the apex to an inner, more interesting branch.
At this point the goal is to up the gnarl consistent with good health and build trunk, not specifically reduce leaf size.
I did work on leaf size in previous years. Leaf size, once the forest has achieved sufficient root mass, appears to be reduced to about 1/3 or less size with early pinching and later cutbacks. Remove vigorous new shoots as these occur. Periodic pinching and light trimming is needed throughout the growing season, especially later in the week following fertilization .
One final note. The trees must hybridize wildly, or mutate. Here are the leaves of the other Autumn Blaze we kept. It’s had the roots worked twice since arriving here.
cheers
DSD sends
Here it is June 2020 - 12 trunks, actually 13, but I got two to fuse.
April 2021 - in the fall of 2020 I started to see if cutting from the autumn cutback would strike. I usually either stuck them right after cutting or let the cutting lie through a freeze then strike these. No internally placed cuttings took. One pushed on the edge. It has survived,
Oct 2021 - This fall two cuttings pushed and survived.
.In the intervening time the forest has been cut back in the past two winters, harder in winter of 2022. No cutting survived this winter.
Today June 2023 before harder cutback. This cutback is an attempt to great more movement, get the trees more gnarly.
After cutback - Note the cutback wasn’t severe, the most trunk removed was 4” or so down from the apex to an inner, more interesting branch.
At this point the goal is to up the gnarl consistent with good health and build trunk, not specifically reduce leaf size.
I did work on leaf size in previous years. Leaf size, once the forest has achieved sufficient root mass, appears to be reduced to about 1/3 or less size with early pinching and later cutbacks. Remove vigorous new shoots as these occur. Periodic pinching and light trimming is needed throughout the growing season, especially later in the week following fertilization .
One final note. The trees must hybridize wildly, or mutate. Here are the leaves of the other Autumn Blaze we kept. It’s had the roots worked twice since arriving here.
cheers
DSD sends
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HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
Freemani 1st gen seed behaves differently than second gen.
I have noticed in areas that cross-pollinate, some Rubrum will still exist... But almost NO Sachrn. (Silver) make it out.
I have noted that 1st gen seedlings will produce BOTH red AND silver leaves throughout the plant/season, fairly consistently for 2-3 years... It takes them longer to "finalize" which portions of RNA they are choosing to read. With some "ending" up almost indistinguishable from it's Rubrum or saccharinum "parents".
I have noted that second gen seedlings are quicker to take on the "silver-heavy, autumn blaze"-style leaf... But still vary quite wildly in leaf color/size and Internode length. The bark (from Freemani AB seed) on these seedlings staying a pretty consistent speckled reddish.
I have noted, that pound-for-pound... My "select" Freemani, with more "Rubrum"-leaning leaf, have been substantially easier to reduce leaf size systemically... No matter the starting size.
I have also noted, that from seeds sourced in MY area, the Freemani are more likely to produce smaller, varied specimens.
I just wanted to share a few observations.
I have told my son Riley he will need to film me giving a little talk on Freemani soon.
...
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Freemani are EASILY as "decent" for bonsai, if not much better (specimen depending), as/than Rubrum.
I have noticed in areas that cross-pollinate, some Rubrum will still exist... But almost NO Sachrn. (Silver) make it out.
I have noted that 1st gen seedlings will produce BOTH red AND silver leaves throughout the plant/season, fairly consistently for 2-3 years... It takes them longer to "finalize" which portions of RNA they are choosing to read. With some "ending" up almost indistinguishable from it's Rubrum or saccharinum "parents".
I have noted that second gen seedlings are quicker to take on the "silver-heavy, autumn blaze"-style leaf... But still vary quite wildly in leaf color/size and Internode length. The bark (from Freemani AB seed) on these seedlings staying a pretty consistent speckled reddish.
I have noted, that pound-for-pound... My "select" Freemani, with more "Rubrum"-leaning leaf, have been substantially easier to reduce leaf size systemically... No matter the starting size.
I have also noted, that from seeds sourced in MY area, the Freemani are more likely to produce smaller, varied specimens.
I just wanted to share a few observations.
I have told my son Riley he will need to film me giving a little talk on Freemani soon.
...
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Freemani are EASILY as "decent" for bonsai, if not much better (specimen depending), as/than Rubrum.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
I have also noted that most areas that cross-pollinate, heavily and naturally... Are park-style areas with large rows of red and silver...in which these seedlings will NEVER see maturity.
These will fall on the trails, and grass... Most will get "got" by parks maintenance...
These will fall on the trails, and grass... Most will get "got" by parks maintenance...
Kanorin
Omono
I'll add that the Freemani seem more resistant to fungus where I live. My rubrums have been slowed down here and there by fungus over the past 3 years, but haven't had that issue with the hybrids.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
I had not noticed that! But that's what this thread is for!!
Group learning!
(Although upon thinking... My Freemani never really showed too much problem with landscape fungus... It's always the Rubrums and Tataricans that 'let me know' that it's "time".)
Kanorin
Omono
Missouri fungi might be a bit different than Wisconsin fungi too!
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
Just different accents!
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
(hahahaha!! Completely kidding! You are, most likely correct!)
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
Hybridize… check this one from the same batch as the forest! Has consistently produced dissectum style leaves for the past 4 years running. We rootworked this one 3 years ago. Untamed, grows about 6’/ year.
Haven’t seen fungus ever and this guy grows sandwiched between vine maples that always get fungus in the fall.
cheers
DSD sends
Haven’t seen fungus ever and this guy grows sandwiched between vine maples that always get fungus in the fall.
cheers
DSD sends
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
In the immortal word(s) of the great Inspector Gadget; "WOWZERS!"
That is tremendously cool!
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
These trees amaze me more and more each year!
My phone stopped working so I lost my summer pictures AGAIN!!!
...
So I shall summarize, bit by bit... Like...
This:
My phone stopped working so I lost my summer pictures AGAIN!!!
...
So I shall summarize, bit by bit... Like...
This:
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
Freemani Note of the Day!!
- Freemani seeds gathered from "Autumn Blaze" specifically, however wildly variable most variables (
) are.. tend to LEAN into these two traits QUITE heavily.
- Redder, white-speckled juvenile bark.
- Leaves on the SILVER end of the RNA "leaf-traits-from-"parents""-scale.
...sorry this is so brief. I have been away from this platform for a while and have much to "catch up on".
You can PM me any more questions, concerns, fears, complaints, hopes, dreams, shopping lists..
- Freemani seeds gathered from "Autumn Blaze" specifically, however wildly variable most variables (
) are.. tend to LEAN into these two traits QUITE heavily.- Redder, white-speckled juvenile bark.
- Leaves on the SILVER end of the RNA "leaf-traits-from-"parents""-scale.
...sorry this is so brief. I have been away from this platform for a while and have much to "catch up on".
You can PM me any more questions, concerns, fears, complaints, hopes, dreams, shopping lists..
Gabler
Masterpiece
I had been wondering what you were up to, but I figured it wasn't my business to ask.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
Gabler
Masterpiece
The ones on the bottom look like they could be Freeman's maple seeds, but it's hard to tell.
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