Silvester (scott pine) need an advice

[bonsai-max]

The good news is the tree is recovering. Leave it be and let it get stronger. Water and fertilizer thats it!

Ok, thank you, the work of last year start to pay, some part have also backbudding of just two needle bud, but opening nice.
So no need to cut back for selection, in july right ?

 

[Paradox]

Ok, thank you, the work of last year start to pay, some part have also backbudding of just two needle bud, but opening nice.
So no need to cut back for selection, in july right ?

No we do not cut candles on Scotts pine in July. We only do that on 2 flush pines like Japanese Black Pines.
Scotts pine is single flush. When we have long candles like the ones that SGTPilko posted, we pinch them in half around now.
Your tree is past that point and the shoots are really small so they dont need to be cut back this year.
In the fall you can carefully select buds if you have multiple buds coming from one spot. I usually use a pair of very fine tweezers to remove the ones I dont want

 

[MaciekA]

Ok, thank you, the work of last year start to pay, some part have also backbudding of just two needle bud, but opening nice.
So no need to cut back for selection, in july right ?

Pine shoot selection is something I do at deciduous leafdrop at the earliest (it can be done later depending on what you're trying to do, the latest I ever do it is when I finally go and wire down those regions all the way to the tips).

I have various motivations for waiting, but among them:

First: During the beginning of the year until somewhere in mid summer, stored starch (last year's vintage) is being recalled from the heartwood and pushed out into the shoots to build mass. The more shoots I leave on the tree during this period, the less starch each shoot gets, and that exerts control over its elongation and overall size/vigor. Stored starch dilution through deferred selection is IMO a foundational mechanism in controlling proportion and growth momentum in bonsai.

Second: During the second half of the year the extraneous shoots begin to pay their produced sugar back into the tree and a portion of this gets stored as starch for the future. Every year in bonsai from year 1 to 300 we want a surplus of stored starch to spend on things that "cost" sugar in bonsai: recovery from repots, new bud generation, disease resistance, winter resistance, recovery from wiring, closing wounds, etc. So before discarding the shoots, it is good to benefit from their productivity, since we need all the excess stored starch we can get, because next year we want to <various daring bonsai operation goals>.

Note that in pine (and perhaps other conifers, I have only read papers about pine in this regard), stored starch reserves even impact drought resistance and this is supported by academic literature. IMO, the types of repots we do in bonsai are, to a degree, stimulating drought-like stress responses from our pines, which is to grow root mass and see if water can be reached. Demand for stored starch goes up, since during drought, very little new needle mass is added. A familiar pattern for those who have watched a pine in the months after a heavy repot.

 

[bonsai-max]

Your tree is past that point and the shoots are really small so they dont need to be cut back this year.

Maybe I used a wrong word. With cut back I was talking about the technik also explained by Ryan Neil, that consist in waiting until the candles elongate, become strong with hard needle and then cut back leaving around 10 couples of needle of this season. Around June mid June here. This is done on the single flush pines to induce backbudding that will open next year.

 

[Paradox]

Maybe I used a wrong word. With cut back I was talking about the technik also explained by Ryan Neil, that consist in waiting until the candles elongate, become strong with hard needle and then cut back leaving around 10 couples of needle of this season. Around June mid June here. This is done on the single flush pines to induce backbudding that will open next year.

ok yea we do that here in August where I am, but honestly if those shoots dont get much bigger, Id probably just leave them alone and dont cut this year.
Give the tree time to get stronger. If you do too much before it gets strong, it could decline on you again and die. Let it recover, it will back bud better when it is stronger in another year or so.

 

[bonsai-max]

Give the tree time to get stronger. If you do too much before it gets strong, it could decline on you again and die. Let it recover, it will back bud better when it is stronger in another year or so.

Ok, we will talk about next year.
Do you pull/cut the needle in autumn ?
Now I am using a 20-20-20 mineral fertilizer, maybe I will switch to an organic one like bio gold or similar, no way to find here Miracid here to follow your schedule, but I have Osmocote plus....

Something like miracid is this one

https://garden-for-all.com/en/product/μπλε-χρώμα-βαφή-με-αλουμίνιο-σίδηρο-κα/

The only problem is that with the fertilizer like bio gold they never go completely dissolved I don't know why, i watering 3 days a week in this period. Someone use sphagnum to cover the tea bag with the fertilizer, but i never tried.

 

[Paradox]

Ok, we will talk about next year.
Do you pull/cut the needle in autumn ?
Now I am using a 20-20-20 mineral fertilizer, maybe I will switch to an organic one like bio gold or similar, no way to find here Miracid here to follow your schedule, but I have Osmocote plus....

Something like miracid is this one

https://garden-for-all.com/en/product/μπλε-χρώμα-βαφή-με-αλουμίνιο-σίδηρο-κα/

The only problem is that with the fertilizer like bio gold they never go completely dissolved I don't know why, i watering 3 days a week in this period. Someone use sphagnum to cover the tea bag with the fertilizer, but i never tried.

Yes l pull needles (scots and mugos) in autumn or cut them (Japanese white pine) off at the base.

I would not use the fertilizer you linked. It's for flowering hydrangeas.

Yes, organic fertilizer has undissolvable ingredients bacause its organic and it will clog the surface of the soil after a while which is why we perform what is called soji in the fall (or sooner if needed), which is basically cleaning off the top layer of soil and debris left from organic fertilizer and replace with clean soil

 

[bonsai-max]

Yes l pull needles (scots and mugos) in autumn or cut them (Japanese white pine) off at the base.

I am thinking to use this to give more strength to the lower branch. Since I can't pinch the candle because too small I am thinking to remove some needle on the top leaving all the needle on the lower branch. I don't want that the plant discard the lower branch like last year.
Yes the fertilizer is for Hydrangeas, but no chance for me to find miracid.
I am in doubt if I should use the 20-20-20 for this season to push hard the plant until the end of the season. What do you think ? I have also a lot of organic fertilizer ( hanagokoro, biogold, prodigy plus)

 

[Paradox]

I am thinking to use this to give more strength to the lower branch. Since I can't pinch the candle because too small I am thinking to remove some needle on the top leaving all the needle on the lower branch. I don't want that the plant discard the lower branch like last year.
Yes the fertilizer is for Hydrangeas, but no chance for me to find miracid.
I am in doubt if I should use the 20-20-20 for this season to push hard the plant until the end of the season. What do you think ? I have also a lot of organic fertilizer ( hanagokoro, biogold, prodigy plus)

You do not want to push the tree hard. You really need to give it time to recover. If you do too much too soon, the tree could decline again and die.

The only fertilizer you listed that I am familiar with is biogold. You can use that.

Can you post a current picture of the entire tree so I can get a better look at its condition now.

 

[bonsai-max]

The only fertilizer you listed that I am familiar with is biogold. You can use that.

Ok so I will use the Biogold or similar.
The prodigy plus is very good also, I used a lot of times.

https://www.polliceverdestore.com/e...us-organic-fertilizer-3-kg-8052679934775.html

Some pictures



This part is worry me, that why i asked about energy management, is a middle branch and looks weak.

 

[Paradox]

Honestly I am reluctant to go along with your desire to remove needles at this point. The needles on that tree aren't that dense from what I can see and IMO it needs everything ot has to build strength and recover.

But it's your tree, if you insist on taking the risk, I would only remove downward pointing needles.

Good luck

 

[bonsai-max]

Honestly I am reluctant to go along with your desire to remove needles at this point. The needles on that tree aren't that dense from what I can see and IMO it needs everything ot has to build strength and recover.

Yes you are right, the plant need all the green, I will leave all the needle.

 

[Paradox]

Yes you are right, the plant need all the green, I will leave all the needle.

You can also turn the tree so the branch you want to save gets light most of the time. Just do turn it every so often so the other side gets light too. Typically we recommend turning them every week or two

 

[bonsai-max]

You can also turn the tree so the branch you want to save gets light most of the time. Just do turn it every so often so the other side gets light too. Typically we recommend turning them every week or two

Did it, I turn all the plants once a month. at least with this I am good ahahahah

One question , how did you manage to dissolve the Bio gold brick during the month ?
I mean the biogold is into a tea bag, I put several tea bags on the soil but here in switzerland I need to give water once every three days in this season, even with no rain, and basically the biogold or other dry fertilizer never get dissolved. So after the month when I put the new ones they are basically the same, that's meaning that the plant doesn't receive all the fertilizer or not ? That why normally I use liquid mineral fertilizer, oo I am thinking to use the Green King that is foliar.

 

[Paradox]

Did it, I turn all the plants once a month. at least with this I am good ahahahah

One question , how did you manage to dissolve the Bio gold brick during the month ?
I mean the biogold is into a tea bag, I put several tea bags on the soil but here in switzerland I need to give water once every three days in this season, even with no rain, and basically the biogold or other dry fertilizer never get dissolved. So after the month when I put the new ones they are basically the same, that's meaning that the plant doesn't receive all the fertilizer or not ? That why normally I use liquid mineral fertilizer, oo I am thinking to use the Green King that is foliar.

It's organic so it will never completely dissolve. With organic fertilizer, there is a lot of undissolvable material in it like plant material or other things.

We rely on the nutrients leaching out of it and going into the soil when we water. It works well to deliver nutrients over time instead of all at once with chemical fertilizers. Putting it in a tea bag as you do is a good way to keep the top of your soil cleaner.

 

[bonsai-max]

We rely on the nutrients leaching out of it and going into the soil when we water. It works well to deliver nutrients over time instead of all at once with chemical fertilizers. Putting it in a tea bag as you do is a good way to keep the top of your soil cleaner.

Ok, thank you so much for your patience

 

[Paradox]

Ok, thank you so much for your patience

No problem we all had to learn at one point.
The whole reason this forum exists is to promote bonsai and share information and ideas

 

[bonsai-max]

The whole reason this forum exists is to promote bonsai and share information and ideas

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