Should it be called "bonsai"? Article in the ABS journal

[JudyB]

I agree that semantics are nothing but linguistic trivia. Arguing about words is infantile mostly, none of it matters, yet it does, in visceral dissection, sometimes amazing parallels and ironies are revealed. The unattached vegetable soup that floats from our causally educated mouths matters not as individual words--but there is a sacredity in that they are the Add-men (women) of our own ideas, they stand for thing bigger than there definitions. I know this is a cumbersome comparison but look at the trajectory of feminism: Over the years our language has migrated from a ridiculously male-dominated, male dominating framework to one more realistic and less divisive and demeaning. Words drag meanings with, they shape and taint the mind--words are cultural purveyors. Studies show that legal sanctioning of the language really led the way to cultural change within the context of feminism, rather than naturally following as a result of the change, as one would think. Any endeavor of the mind with big complex spiritual ideas comes with a certain pervasive poetry. In a certain very famous ancient book of letters and stories, a quote ''In the beginning was the Word'', a fascinating and revealing ideology. Its kind of funny that Walter headed his forum post as he did, the actual ABS article was, "Bonsai in America or American bonsai" by Saimir Organaja. The article opens with ruminations essentially about the term and mentality of "American Bonsai", then moved on to the interviews. The article was interesting mostly because of who was posed this question (Joura, Pall,Bjorn, Ryan, Kempinski). Of course, all these articles are restrained from getting too raw, and some deeper things were touched on, but I believe the real substantive issue is about the consequences within ourselves of the long-term dogma of duplication, the precarious cost of outdated and culturally over-focused display and judging modes and maybe more importantly and progressively, about passion and pride in competition. Yes, American Bonsai is a thing, whether one acknowledges it or not, the real question is whether we American can or care to intentionally jettison the limiting and diluting cultural baggage that tends to favor dogma and duplication over creativity and authenticity.

I do agree with you that words have power, especially in political trajectories. There are directives to use certain words in that arena to demonize or sweeten issues and peoples. So in that way I concede the point.

Sometimes to me this seems like just a way to stir the pot again.

 

[Walter Pall]

Its kind of funny that Walter headed his forum post as he did, the actual ABS article was, "Bonsai in America or American bonsai" by Saimir Organaja.

I posted it as I did because Saimir had asked the questions as he did and as shown. He did not ask me abut American bonsai but about the usage of the word bonsai in general.

 

[crust]

I posted it as I did because Saimir had asked the questions as he did and as shown. He did not ask me abut American bonsai but about the usage of the word bonsai in general.

Ahhh, Sorry, I did not realize this Walter--I was just going off the article in which your response, as always, was perceptive and cuts through the usual bull. Well, in a somewhat playful spirit, I move to abandon the word bonsai, which is pretty easy for me because I rarely speak it anyway. I usually refer to them a " bonzo", which is admittedly irreverent, therefore perfect. Most bonsai-geeks won't be able to stomach "bonzo", besides its just a derivative, therefore I propose incorporating mostly- American music form term "Jazz": "Gotta go water the Jazz plants", or, " I am entering my Jazz-plant in a competition". But I guess Jazz-plant sounds a bit lame. I do often refer to my bonzo as, "Wonk-a-dukus": when curious visitors walk past my enclosed garden and ask, "What's in there?", I often say, "That is where I keep my Wonk-a-dukus", and they say," What the heck is that", and I say," Oh, just my bonzo bushes", which usually shuts them up and saves me the tour. Anyway, Wonk-a-dukus is pretty culturally free, then we could move on to naming styles and tree parts and other gargonizing---oh boy that'll be fun! But then I'm kind of a pot stirrer.

 

[MichaelS]

Perhaps the word radical is the thing though. I do believe that what styles are trending and evolving in bonsai would, not many years ago, be rejected as credible.

Can I see some examples?

significantly being influence by these changes

What changes? Show me some examples of these coveted materials which would normally have been rejected.

I think you may be confusing a natural evolution of awareness of possibilities with a radical shift in approach to bonsai? There is NOTHING new about trying to instil more apparent naturalness into the tree. (and that is the only real change from Japanese tradition there can be and still remain in the realm of a tree/bonsai). It is not a radical change but a very subtle one. We should remember that the first bonsai was digging up an interesting tree from the wild, potting it up so it would remain alive, and looking at it. That has always been sort historically but then forgotten about or honed out of existence in Japan. The difference lies in it's (re) acceptance, it's (re) appreciation, and it's successful implementation. If the Japanese get inspired to follow the ''new lead'' of ''doing the old'' of the west, they will be the most successful at it because it's all about patience and technique. I somehow doubt that will happen there? The west will no doubt come up with the usual ridiculous things (like planting a tree on a skull or something) just so they can stand out. It's the old ''look at me, aren't I a clever artist'' syndrome.

 

[crust]

Can I see some examples?



What changes? Show me some examples of these coveted materials which would normally have been rejected.

I think you may be confusing a natural evolution of awareness of possibilities with a radical shift in approach to bonsai? There is NOTHING new about trying to instil more apparent naturalness into the tree. (and that is the only real change from Japanese tradition there can be and still remain in the realm of a tree/bonsai). It is not a radical change but a very subtle one. We should remember that the first bonsai was digging up an interesting tree from the wild, potting it up so it would remain alive, and looking at it. That has always been sort historically but then forgotten about or honed out of existence in Japan. The difference lies in it's (re) acceptance, it's (re) appreciation, and it's successful implementation. If the Japanese get inspired to follow the ''new lead'' of ''doing the old'' of the west, they will be the most successful at it because it's all about patience and technique. I somehow doubt that will happen there? The west will no doubt come up with the usual ridiculous things (like planting a tree on a skull or something) just so they can stand out. It's the old ''look at me, aren't I a clever artist'' syndrome.

This is pedestrian knowledge--look at and compare in the past at what is at shows; talk to avid collectors and sellers, they say this is happening too--more and more trees with unique focal points or amazing line or intense detail but have, earlier, what was considered unusable because of old-school structural flaws or non-typical shapes (nontypical branching, multiple apexes, nontypical canopies, even nontypical species once deemed too coarse etc.)I am not saying the west will do any better but only that some of the better designers are fast ascending past duplication and, to me, are doing exciting and innovative work.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Ultimately it is a question that will carry a great deal of importance to those that approach Bonsai from a scholarly perspective and zero importance to those that approach bonsai from an artistic perspective. For those that are a little bit of both, they will have some strong opinions on the subject but not let it ultimately determine how they interact with the discipline.

When I read Walter's statements the other day, I immediately thought of it from the perspective of someone that has been heavily engaged in music criticism within the underground metal scene for over ten years. To those that approach the genre from a scholarly perspective such as myself in my criticism, it is important to determine and define nuanced changes in the stylistic landscape. Understanding the differences between Norwegian, Greek, Eastern, and US Black Metal might not matter to someone who just enjoys the music for the music, however these are important components for critics in understanding the music. On the other hand, those that grew up in the 70's and 80's and refuse to acknowledge the progression of the genre at all, are a lot like the the traditionalists which Walter speaks of in Japan.

 

[Djtommy]

This is pedestrian knowledge--look at and compare in the past at what is at shows; talk to avid collectors and sellers, they say this is happening too--more and more trees with unique focal points or amazing line or intense detail but have, earlier, what was considered unusable because of old-school structural flaws or non-typical shapes (nontypical branching, multiple apexes, nontypical canopies, even nontypical species once deemed too coarse etc.)I am not saying the west will do any better but only that some of the better designers are fast ascending past duplication and, to me, are doing exciting and innovative work.

I think trees with unique focus points have always been regarded as good bonsai material,
Atypical not following the rules make up the majority of good trees and is not a new thing.
If anything, I think in many cases the craft has taken over loosing the art in the tree, appreciatable in many cases yes but unfortunate in as many cases.
Here some old pictures examples

 

[MichaelS]

Thankyou Dj. To say something is new is nonsense and to say that bonsai is now becoming art where it was not before is even worse.
Here is more of the ''non typical branching'', ''multiple apices'' and ''non typical canopies'' crust talks about. All but one are Japanese.

 

[crust]

True, True! Nothing stylistically is really that new and I surely acknowledge within the great numbers of Japanese trees designed over the years nearly everything is represented, but not so in America--we probably are talking in terms of Just change in fashion or interpretation however I have stumbled through near 40yrs of bonzo in America and most of those years, up until recently, were an unexciting drag. Local teachers and clubs taught the old branch one, two, three thing, taught formulaic rule-focused design, gave handouts of Japanese terms and grew mostly lame trees. The whole scene was stale and dragged down in replication--unfortunately, Americans really suck at trying to be Japanese.
.

 

[Djtommy]

True, True! Nothing stylistically is really that new and I surely acknowledge within the great numbers of Japanese trees designed over the years nearly everything is represented, but not so in America--we probably are talking in terms of Just change in fashion or interpretation however I have stumbled through near 40yrs of bonzo in America and most of those years, up until recently, were an unexciting drag. Local teachers and clubs taught the old branch one, two, three thing, taught formulaic rule-focused design, gave handouts of Japanese terms and grew mostly lame trees. The whole scene was stale and dragged down in replication--unfortunately, Americans really suck at trying to be Japanese.
.

Yes, well, I guess you could say, a change in trend deserves a new name but doesn’t that exist already, classical bonsai, modern, naturalistic, to me, many good trees fit in several categories together

As far as American bonsai, is American bonsai a different trend? If it’s a different trend don’t you think it’s a bad name as that would be quite limiting, if it’s not a trend what is it then?
If you ask me it’s just good for business, promoting use of local species, trying to make it more appealing, nothing wrong with that but if anything “American bonsai” has more a commercial value then anything else, in my opinion