Should I defoliate? BRT

[LittleDingus]

Yes, I see.
Makes sense.
In fact, as you may know, they are definitely not deciduous. So if the leaves fall when brought to inside, most probably it's due to stress.
BRTs are tough, so usually they can handle it, but I really don't know in the long run if they get weak or if they slow down their growth. Probably yes.
Here in Brazil no one defoliates them, because their leaves are naturally small and already good for bonsai, and they never stop growing, be it summer or winter.
Our winter, bien entendu.
My guess: they will grow less if being cared as a deciduous tree, they should grow less if kept indoors during the winter, far from ideal growing patterns such as high humidity and warm weather, both conditions they love.

Yep, I know they aren't deciduous and the leaf drop is stress. Unavoidable here where 6 months of the year are too cold for them outdoors They either drop their leaves when the night temperatures cool or they drop their leaves when the lighting conditions change significantly...pick your poison!

I've started doing the shuffle with mine already. 80F days...60F nights. And they're dropping leaves anyway.



They drop their leaves faster than they grow them!

Here are my two trees. They haven't opened up for the day yet. When I got these guys in May 2019 they were a single 12" stem with no branching.



I have some nice large south east facing windows they'll winter in. Last winter they sat not doing much for a couple of months until the days started lengthening again...then they started growing decently...except those branches all reached for the windows!

 

[LittleDingus]

I am very curious to see how well they take the colder climates, and if you care to see @LittleDingus , @leatherback started a thread comparing seedlings having approximately the same age on northern Germany to a brother in Brazil, you can find it clicking below.
Nice discussion, and some surprising results so far!

Comparing size with Clicio

@Clicio has been bugging me that he wants to compare sizes and see whether you can get the same size in the cold north as in the tropics. To not spoil any threads with this big boys game.. A separate one. Clicio, here are mine. I am not sure when I planted the seeds. Was it 2018?

www.bonsainut.com

Yes, I've been watching that thread too But thanks for pointing it out!

 

[LittleDingus]

View attachment 328809 View attachment 328811

I de-foliate from time to time....

_That_ is a nice tree Roughly how old is it?

 

[canoeguide]

I've started doing the shuffle with mine already. 80F days...60F nights.

I don't bring mine in (to a south-facing window) until it's below 45 at night. Since I'm growing these tropicals this far north, I want to give them every last possible day of outdoor sun that I can without doing the two-step. Why do you shuffle yours at 60F?

 

[LittleDingus]

I don't bring mine in (to a south-facing window) until it's below 45 at night. Since I'm growing these tropicals this far north, I want to give them every last possible day of outdoor sun that I can without doing the two-step. Why do you shuffle yours at 60F?

Because they're already dropping leaves

I move them outside during the day. We're still in the upper 70Fs, low 80Fs most days. But the cooler nights seem to trigger leaf drop for me.

 

[canoeguide]

But the cooler nights seem to trigger leaf drop for me.

I'll have to see what happens to mine this year. I've only had some BRT for a little over a year, but they did drop a lot of yellow leaves last year when brought inside. I thought it was just the transition, but it could have been in response to experiencing cooler temps outside.

 

[Carol 83]

Because they're already dropping leaves

I move them outside during the day. We're still in the upper 70Fs, low 80Fs most days. But the cooler nights seem to trigger leaf drop for me.

It seems odd that they are dropping leaves already. My climate is pretty much the same as yours and mine are growing like crazy still. Maybe they got too dry at some time? Mine saw a few nights in the 40's last fall without any ill effects.

 

[LittleDingus]

It seems odd that they are dropping leaves already. My climate is pretty much the same as yours and mine are growing like crazy still. Maybe they got too dry at some time? Mine saw a few nights in the 40's last fall without any ill effects.

If anything, I over water. Which that may be too, I guess. We had a sudden temp change at the beginning of this week that brought several days of rain and cooler temps. We went from sunny and 90F to rainy and 55F within 24 hours. Probably that was too much of a shock? The leaves started yellowing and falling 2 days later.

It's only 2 trees, so I started to bring them in at night after they've closed up. They go back outside shortly after dawn. It's a good reminder to get their winter area set up!

I was considering defoliating the older leaves when they came in anyway since last fall they caused quite a mess when they first came inside. I have a few branches that need pruned ear marked to try some cuttings also.

I'm not too worried about their general health. They both seem quite healthy otherwise and last winter they did well indoors once they finished leafing all over my carpet!

 

[LittleDingus]

It seems odd that they are dropping leaves already. My climate is pretty much the same as yours and mine are growing like crazy still. Maybe they got too dry at some time? Mine saw a few nights in the 40's last fall without any ill effects.

@Carol 83 Did you get spared the big temp swing from the mountain storms? I didn't know how far east that extended.

 

[Carol 83]

@Carol 83 Did you get spared the big temp swing from the mountain storms? I didn't know how far east that extended.

We were actually on vacation in the Ozarks, got back Friday afternoon. My son didn't say anything about the weather, just that it didn't rain while we were gone. Luckily, he did water my trees. ☺

 

[Carol 83]

If anything, I over water. Which that may be too, I guess. We had a sudden temp change at the beginning of this week that brought several days of rain and cooler temps. We went from sunny and 90F to rainy and 55F within 24 hours. Probably that was too much of a shock? The leaves started yellowing and falling 2 days later.

It's only 2 trees, so I started to bring them in at night after they've closed up. They go back outside shortly after dawn. It's a good reminder to get their winter area set up!

I was considering defoliating the older leaves when they came in anyway since last fall they caused quite a mess when they first came inside. I have a few branches that need pruned ear marked to try some cuttings also.

I'm not too worried about their general health. They both seem quite healthy otherwise and last winter they did well indoors once they finished leafing all over my carpet!

They would be fine at 55, mine saw some unexpected 40's last year, they were OK. If it's only 2 you have to bring in, that's no big deal. I have too many to do the "two step" with. Once they come in, they stay in.

 

[LittleDingus]

They would be fine at 55, mine saw some unexpected 40's last year, they were OK. If it's only 2 you have to bring in, that's no big deal. I have too many to do the "two step" with. Once they come in, they stay in.

I've got too many trees to move all of them too.

I'm actually wondering if it's worth it for these two. I'm not so much worried about them dying as much as I was hoping to see some bud break on the branches I want to try as cuttings to test out a theory. Maybe this will have set them back enough that's not worth worrying about this year. I don't trim my thorns so I do need the trim a few branches regardless to avoid getting hooked by them all winter.

 

[Carol 83]

I've got too many trees to move all of them too.

I'm actually wondering if it's worth it for these two. I'm not so much worried about them dying as much as I was hoping to see some bud break on the branches I want to try as cuttings to test out a theory. Maybe this will have set them back enough that's not worth worrying about this year. I don't trim my thorns so I do need the trim a few branches regardless to avoid getting hooked by them all winter.

It doesn't hurt them to cut off the thorns, but the thorns can hurt you.

 

[leatherback]

this far north

Aren't you in Pensylvania? Isn't that the same latitude as Spain and Italy?

until it's below 45 at night

Similar here.

 

[LittleDingus]

It doesn't hurt them to cut off the thorns, but the thorns can hurt you.

But I like the thorns . My saguaros are way worse! But I do blunt those from time to time.

 

[BrazilianMoistWood]

Would it be wise to continue fertilizing?

 

[LanceMac10]

_That_ is a nice tree Roughly how old is it?

Wow, I've had it for 9 years I believe. 2010 or 2011? pic from '13


20 years maybe? Probably a Weigerts tree from Florida so I wouldn't say it was more than 10 when I bought it. If that helps. I mean, they grow pretty good, even up here.

 

[Paradox]

They can go down to 50 degrees without a problem.

I bought my large one that is now 20+ years old from a grower in Florida. I purchased it in March and he held it until May for my temperatures up here to warm up.
He told me he was bringing it in at night if temps were going to drop below 50. Mine stay outside until mid October most years and then I bring them in.

They do lose/replace leaves on their own here and there without being stress.
Mine continually shed a few leaves here and there. Complete defoliation is usually a sign of stress and I have only seen it when mine got dried out too much.

 

[LanceMac10]

What for?

Sometimes leaves can be persistent and not fall. In my climate they have a "shelf life". Notably if there transitioned gradually into the sun.
If I see buds at the base of an "old" leaf/leaves, I feel it's safe to remove the "expired" leaf.
In the noted situation, it was beyond the time when I would see "spring" growth...(indoors in March )

 

[LanceMac10]

40's tonite.....



as long as the next day gets to the mid to upper 60's, should be good.....It's gone lower temps before.