Shore Pine- Native species extraordinaire! Share your knowledge and progress with this species.

[Diggumsmack2]

Just an FYI, Sheffields has a small amount of Shore pine seeds in stock right now. Love the name; Pinus contorta contorta.

- Price per 1 packet

For over 30 years we've supplied the BEST seed available in the World for our customers. We guarantee that all the seed we sell has been collected from the named mother plant. In most cases this means it will produce seedlings that are true to name.

sheffields.com

 

[ghues]

Update on this one. In Shed for some seasonal work. Think I may have found a much better angle or very close to it.lol

 

[River's Edge]

Update on this Shore Pine. Was in the shop for thinning, wiring and preparation for the growing season. Spent considerable time with needle reduction to ensure plenty of sun gets to the interior to promote density. Next steps will be to focus on creating density in the pads and reducing the needle length. As that occurs I will compact the design overall and this will create denser pads with more separation for branch definition. I am happy with the way this one is coming along.

 

[River's Edge]

Thought I would provide a short explanation of why it is important to check out trees that do not initially stand out when collecting. Sometimes that low bit of foliage represents a tree that has been adversely affected. ( as in compacted to the ground by nature)

This tree was collected in 2014, had very little healthy foliage and was barely visible above ground. Heavy snow pack had kept it low to the ground, fighting for survival. I acquired the tree in the round plastic flower planter as seen in the first photo November 2020. Condition of foliage was healthy and strengthening after years of care post collection.

I am attaching three pictures that show the appearance after recovery from collection ( as acquired) , then after the initial repot to improve the planting angle to a more upright position, and then today the transition from structural wiring to move upper trunk segments to a further upright position for more design options.

During the first change the primary focus was to find the best front and angle for the portion of the trunk that is very difficult to change. My decision was to highlight the natural shari and jin in the front, using the apical jin to provide depth to the design by placing behind the foliage.
The second change was designed to make the less difficult bends that would improve the upright position and adjust the apical trunk portion to a suitable place to begin design. ( Three separate structural wires were used to reposition upper portions of the trunk. Brace and block assisted two of the structural wires to limit damage and contact with the trunk. Wires in contact with the trunk were cushioned with hose and placed in locations to limit damage to the old bark)
Once the tree has recovered over this summer I will be able to work on the structural wiring for branch positioning and initial design. In the meantime light wiring will take place to open the structure of the foliage, lower foliage tips and encourage some back budding. Regular fertilization is still the plan until the design is complete and suitable density has been obtained in the foliage. I am not concerned with controlling needle length at this point. In fact as you can see it is longer than normal at this point for Shore Pine. This is as a result of the focus on strong health during recovery and development.

My summary is that a valuable tree can easily go unnoticed if not checking out carefully what appears to be very little in terms of attracting attention. Shore Pine can often present with little foliage and close to the ground. Due to their flexible branches and contorted growing patterns, wind, snow pack and animals can often compact their appearance. This same flexibility is awesome for the potential it unlocks to change their design. Just not always overnight.

This tree is part way on the journey but within a year or two the final design should take shape. That will be the beginning of a new chapter leading to compaction, density and refinement. It is during this chapter that the needles will begin to shorten, the pads form and fill in. The process is slower for single flush pines but the wait is well worth it for this species.
For perspective on timing the first picture is November 2020, second picture December 2021, third picture after working on it today. February 2022. Hope some of the rambling makes sense and the tidbits are worthwhile.

 

[River's Edge]

Thought I would provide a short explanation of why it is important to check out trees that do not initially stand out when collecting. Sometimes that low bit of foliage represents a tree that has been adversely affected. ( as in compacted to the ground by nature)

This tree was collected in 2014, had very little healthy foliage and was barely visible above ground. Heavy snow pack had kept it low to the ground, fighting for survival. I acquired the tree in the round plastic flower planter as seen in the first photo November 2020. Condition of foliage was healthy and strengthening after years of care post collection.

I am attaching three pictures that show the appearance after recovery from collection ( as acquired) , then after the initial repot to improve the planting angle to a more upright position, and then today the transition from structural wiring to move upper trunk segments to a further upright position for more design options.

During the first change the primary focus was to find the best front and angle for the portion of the trunk that is very difficult to change. My decision was to highlight the natural shari and jin in the front, using the apical jin to provide depth to the design by placing behind the foliage.
The second change was designed to make the less difficult bends that would improve the upright position and adjust the apical trunk portion to a suitable place to begin design. ( Three separate structural wires were used to reposition upper portions of the trunk. Brace and block assisted two of the structural wires to limit damage and contact with the trunk. Wires in contact with the trunk were cushioned with hose and placed in locations to limit damage to the old bark)
Once the tree has recovered over this summer I will be able to work on the structural wiring for branch positioning and initial design. In the meantime light wiring will take place to open the structure of the foliage, lower foliage tips and encourage some back budding. Regular fertilization is still the plan until the design is complete and suitable density has been obtained in the foliage. I am not concerned with controlling needle length at this point. In fact as you can see it is longer than normal at this point for Shore Pine. This is as a result of the focus on strong health during recovery and development.

My summary is that a valuable tree can easily go unnoticed if not checking out carefully what appears to be very little in terms of attracting attention. Shore Pine can often present with little foliage and close to the ground. Due to their flexible branches and contorted growing patterns, wind, snow pack and animals can often compact their appearance. This same flexibility is awesome for the potential it unlocks to change their design. Just not always overnight.

This tree is part way on the journey but within a year or two the final design should take shape. That will be the beginning of a new chapter leading to compaction, density and refinement. It is during this chapter that the needles will begin to shorten, the pads form and fill in. The process is slower for single flush pines but the wait is well worth it for this species.
For perspective on timing the first picture is November 2020, second picture December 2021, third picture after working on it today. February 2022. Hope some of the rambling makes sense and the tidbits are worthwhile.
View attachment 418840View attachment 418841View attachment 418842

Last update for this year, the tree will now grow out/ cut back for a couple of years to compact and add density to the foliage closer in to the trunk. The branches have been wired to open up and bring most of the foliage tips down to aid in back budding. The top jin is now beginning to peak over the left of the canopy. Once it is debarked and cleaned up it will add further to a more unified design. I plan to have a long debate with myself on several occasions regarding the natural jin lower left. ( former root I believe) It has a very interesting twist at the end slightly back and up! I am fairly sure the opinions will be divided.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Excellent tree.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Nice Job @River's Edge !

If you are asking for thoughts, I’d say the tree can do without the Jin on the bottom right. Or at least shorten it somewhat. It seems to throw the tree off balance detracts from the great bark and foliage. I like the ones atop the tree though.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[River's Edge]

Nice Job @River's Edge !

If you are asking for thoughts, I’d say the tree can do without the Jin on the bottom right. Or at least shorten it somewhat. It seems to throw the tree off balance detracts from the great bark and foliage. I like the ones atop the tree though.

cheers
DSD sends

I agree with your comments half the time, from another angle it looks way better and has and interesting twist at the end of the jin! So the other half of the time I think it should stay! Call it the " Yamadori" rule. Where Mother Nature sometimes trumps traditional aesthetics.
truth be told, I have yet to make my mind up, therefore it has stayed in place.
When I first started working the tree my immediate thought was to remove it, the more I look closely, the further I move away from that thought.

Here is an older picture that shows the other angle of the jin for reference. It actually moves along the lines of part of the trunk.

 

[River's Edge]

I agree with your comments half the time, from another angle it looks way better and has and interesting twist at the end of the jin! So the other half of the time I think it should stay! Call it the " Yamadori" rule. Where Mother Nature sometimes trumps traditional aesthetics.
truth be told, I have yet to make my mind up, therefore it has stayed in place.
When I first started working the tree my immediate thought was to remove it, the more I look closely, the further I move away from that thought.

Here is an older picture that shows the other angle of the jin for reference. It actually moves along the lines of part of the trunk.View attachment 419364

One other major consideration is what if the front changes when the jin near the top could become the key feature with the foliage in the backdrop. Although it is barely evident from the current front it is quite significant on the other side. This is more evident in the picture below. keep in mind that the deadwood has not been dealt with as I just started working this tree for design this past week.
I believe this tree is a good example of why it is often difficult to gauge design on the basis of pictures, one of the major drawbacks to this form of communication, both for learning and providing others with assistance.
In all fairness with more interesting trees it is probably best to provide a series of photos or a video clip to show 360 degree for consideration. Even then the photos rarely do justice to the actual form and detail.
To sum up, early days and lots of variables to consider as the tree progresses. It is still talking to me and I am trying to understand what it is saying! Will change my hearing aid batteries frequently

 

[andrewiles]

I agree with your comments half the time, from another angle it looks way better and has and interesting twist at the end of the jin! So the other half of the time I think it should stay! Call it the " Yamadori" rule. Where Mother Nature sometimes trumps traditional aesthetics.
truth be told, I have yet to make my mind up, therefore it has stayed in place.
When I first started working the tree my immediate thought was to remove it, the more I look closely, the further I move away from that thought.

Here is an older picture that shows the other angle of the jin for reference. It actually moves along the lines of part of the trunk.View attachment 419364

I really like this angle, esp. if you could raise the main trunk a tiny bit more above the jin.

 

[River's Edge]

I really like this angle, esp. if you could raise the main trunk a tiny bit more above the jin.

Actually the previously posted pictures show the work that was done to raise the planting angle and the trunk above the jin.
And it is very possible that the tree will evolve to a different front as it progresses. This often happens with trees that have choices!

 

[River's Edge]

One other major consideration is what if the front changes when the jin near the top could become the key feature with the foliage in the backdrop. Although it is barely evident from the current front it is quite significant on the other side. This is more evident in the picture below. keep in mind that the deadwood has not been dealt with as I just started working this tree for design this past week.
I believe this tree is a good example of why it is often difficult to gauge design on the basis of pictures, one of the major drawbacks to this form of communication, both for learning and providing others with assistance.
In all fairness with more interesting trees it is probably best to provide a series of photos or a video clip to show 360 degree for consideration. Even then the photos rarely do justice to the actual form and detail.
To sum up, early days and lots of variables to consider as the tree progresses. It is still talking to me and I am trying to understand what it is saying! Will change my hearing aid batteries frequently


View attachment 419405

Every 4 1/2 days , sometimes five if I sleep more with them out.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

One other major consideration is what if the front changes when the jin near the top could become the key feature with the foliage in the backdrop. Although it is barely evident from the current front it is quite significant on the other side. This is more evident in the picture below. keep in mind that the deadwood has not been dealt with as I just started working this tree for design this past week.
I believe this tree is a good example of why it is often difficult to gauge design on the basis of pictures, one of the major drawbacks to this form of communication, both for learning and providing others with assistance.
In all fairness with more interesting trees it is probably best to provide a series of photos or a video clip to show 360 degree for consideration. Even then the photos rarely do justice to the actual form and detail.
To sum up, early days and lots of variables to consider as the tree progresses. It is still talking to me and I am trying to understand what it is saying! Will change my hearing aid batteries frequently


View attachment 419405

I like this front a lot. I think there are some really promising trunk lines and branch options in this view.

 

[River's Edge]

I like this front a lot. I think there are some really promising trunk lines and branch options in this view.

Because it is the backside to the other front, the branch positioning in the first styling will not be difficult to adjust should that be the new direction. The first step usually focus's on primary branch selection and 360 representation. because their is a long way to go with density and accomplishing asymmetry plus unity. Lots of choices and adjustments before a final path is clear. And then every once in while there is the option of redesign after a period of grow out.
While it grows and recovers the next stage of working the deadwood to increase the contrast will help to define a favourite side. Right now a good portion of the dead wood still has old bark, when it is removed the dead trunk will change in proportion with the live trunk and add visually to reveal advanced age. It will be interesting to see how it transforms. I have used the dead trunk as an anchor to help raise the live trunk so some parts of the reveal will have to wait a while until the positioning is set.
Next stage can be described as " Hurry up and Wait"

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Just picked up this shore pine. I think it's got potential. About a 2 inch base and lots of candles. I'll start by removing a few branches and some candle selection.

 

[River's Edge]

View attachment 420362
Just picked up this shore pine. I think it's got potential. About a 2 inch base and lots of candles. I'll start by removing a few branches and some candle selection.

Must have warmed up a lot in the Seattle area over the past few weeks, unless of course it was kept in a green house. lots of bud extension appears to be already already happening on this one. Certainly far ahead of the collected ones in my nursery! looks really healthy with lots of potential and still very young with just the beginnings of bark formation near the base!

 

[0soyoung]

View attachment 420362
Just picked up this shore pine. I think it's got potential. About a 2 inch base and lots of candles. I'll start by removing a few branches and some candle selection.

Nice.
Spaan's dwarf ??

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Nice.
Spaan's dwarf ??

Yep, they had a few at the nursery, but this one had the best movement. Haven't seen many of these around. I'm hoping I can keep the needles short.

 

[River's Edge]

Update on this shore Pine! One year later and obvious additional growth, back budding and health! Time for decision making and action this fall. I took the tree to a friends place the other day so we could debate the options. He is a talented self taught experienced bonsai practitioner and collector here on Vancouver Island. He brought up an interesting option that I had not considered with the lower jin.

1.There is an upper branch that could easily be wired to follow the line of the lower jin and reduce the distraction aspect while retaining the original jin. The creation of a pad flowing in synch seems quite possible! Still might be better to remove it entirely. Shortened does not appear to be a good option. No taper or movement in the beginning of the jin.

2. We also discussed the removal of a large branch to the front that obscures the trunk line. The branch could also be used to create two smaller pads to the left front that allows a view of the trunk without removal. If removed, would it look best shortened or removed entirely? How likely would it heal properly over time?

3. It is evident that sufficient branching will remain for design either way. Also that the branching can be arranged to provide design and depth from all directions. The tree is back budding well on existing branches.

4. The upper jin seems of high value. It will appear much thinner when the bark is removed. This species has very thick bark. It will remain full length as part of the composition to provide interest, depth and evidence of the trees struggle.

5. The current front provides the best view of the trunk, base and the upper jin for depth and position. This view hi-lights the natural shari. A key element of this tree.

All supports and wire have been removed the root ball is formed for the planting angle and the tree is ready for initial styling.

 

[MaciekA]

That's a nice big one. I have a few large contorta, but right now my attention is on the other end of the size spectrum with some very small ones. In a couple weeks I'm gonna do some initial twisty bending on a batch of wild-collected shore pine seedlings. I collected them last September, bare rooted them all, wired the trunks (note: no bending of any kind at that time) and then put them on bottom heat all winter (while sitting outside, including during the big freeze). They've recovered very well since then with a big leap in growth over their wild growth rate. I've had good success in wiring (but not bending) wild collected lodge-shore seedlings at collection time, mild wire bite-in is another useful signal that they're putting on mass and likely have some decent rootage.

I was re-scrolling through this thread and saw your distribution map @River's Edge . Apologies for not having a reference handy, but I saw an academic paper last year that suggested the lodgepole and shore split between the interior and coast is quite recent -- around 14,000 - 15,000 years. If I find that reference again I'll try to remember to post it here.