Sharpes pygmy maple

[HardBall]

It appears to me that this tree offers a lot of options to cutback to, to improve branch taper without having to go "full stump" all at once.

 

[Adair M]

It appears to me that this tree offers a lot of options to cutback to, to improve branch taper without having to go "full stump" all at once.

It does.

 

[Maloghurst]

I think the advice to keep this as a pet is bad advice and I’m surprised to be honest that anyone would say this. Don’t you have to train any dog not to shit on the carpet?
I think you need more clarification on what @MACH5 means by major cutbacks.
You don’t need to “go back to nubs” this is not that type of tree. But I would definitely cut back to finer growth. Find new leaders for each long straight branch. Add some wire and develop some taper and natural ramification. This tree has been hedged and the result is knobby coarse growth near the tips. If you treat it the same way it will only get worse over time. IMO you will not be satisfied with this for very long. It has potential and you don’t have to massacre the tree to obtain something better. Seek guidance in the process if needed. I would be leaning towards a direction like this.

 

[leatherback]

Nice one.

I think you can bring the canopy back in by 1/3, reducing the thick straing sections and increasing taper. And after that, go through the canopy removing triplets. Nice.

 

[MACH5]

I think you need more clarification on what @MACH5 means by major cutbacks.

I mean cut back to the very first bifurcating branch joints on every branch. As best as I am able to see, that would require quite a drastic cut back on most of the tree which I would advise against to do all at once.

Taking into account air layering above the graft, I do believe there is a smaller much higher quality tree hidden within.

 

[Gaijin]

I read this last night and it kept coming back to mind all day. This makes a lot of sense for many of us on this forum. There are many on this forum that produce high quality show trees (some of them have replied to the OP) that we all look at their trees and strive to someday have such a tree. At the same time we have no plans of ever attempting to enter a tree in anything beyond a local club showing, if that. It is very confusing to us when we finally spend what we feel is a lot of money, on what we feel is a pretty nice tree. When ask for advice we get the chop and cut it back to a short nub if you really want a nice tree. Please do not get me wrong, I am not saying that advice is not correct and if we ask for advice, we should be prepared to hear every suggestion . It is just hard to make that cut and start the tree over, when we thought it was pretty good as is. We struggle with the suggestion since it comes from the people that know what they are doing, from the trees we see they have done, but wonder will we be able to do it. When all we really wanted was that pet quality dog that would greet us at the door when we come home or the medium tree out on the deck that greets us, looks pretty good to us and excites us when we see the tiny new leaves coming out no matter where they are. The pet quality dog that may just do a trick when company comes by or the medium tree that impresses our company and gives us the chance to introduce them to Bonsai.
Not to say we would not like to have the high breed dog, but because of budget, time, location or resources, we just settle for "Harvey" Happy to see us.

Very well said.

 

[Adair M]

I mean cut back to the very first bifurcating branch joints on every branch. As best as I am able to see, that would require quite a drastic cut back on most of the tree which I would advise against to do all at once.

Taking into account air layering above the graft, I do believe there is a smaller much higher quality tree hidden within.

Sergio, you’re absolutely right, but convincing people to do it on this forum is next to impossible!

The fear of cutting back is one of the reasons there are few“really good” deciduous trees here in the US.

 

[Gaijin]

Sergio, you’re absolutely right, but convincing people to do it on this forum is next to impossible!

The fear of cutting back is one of the reasons there are few“really good” deciduous trees here in the US.

Lots of good advice here. One of the reasons I backed off my big ambitions pretty quick was the fact that this is a dwarf variety, and are purportedly much slower to develop. I hadn't really considered this when I made the original post.

 

[Adair M]

Lots of good advice here. One of the reasons I backed off my big ambitions pretty quick was the fact that this is a dwarf variety, and are purportedly much slower to develop. I hadn't really considered this when I made the original post.

True. But it also has nice short internodes, and a smaller leaf size. Which means that there is a higher potential to develop it into a superior tree.

The unfortunate truth is deciduous trees take a long time to develop. No matter whether they’re a dwarf variety or not. Everyone wants immediate satisfaction, which is a problem. Deciduous trees take time and long term, patient, dedication to develop. Which just doesn’t appeal to everyone.

 

[sorce]

very first bifurcating branch

Seems some could go out one further, for good record.

Question...

When it's half inch thick through, and 2 quarter inch sides, isn't it pretty safe to cut back to them 2 quarter inch sides?

Seems he has a rather safe cutting back bet.

All I know.....

You don't buy a AKC potential quality tree, and turn it into a matted rag.

Maybe if we always talked about the extensive amounts of quality Deciduous trees we see, how easy they are to make.....
But we don't.

Welcome to Crazy!

@Gaijin have a look at some of Mach5's trees development, and see if you'd rather have a Lambo in 20 years, or a pinto in 3.

Sorce

 

[elroy]

They dry out too fast. They’re deep, which encourages downward growing roots. You want radial roots going out wide, not down.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

cool maples in Japan being developed in colanders. See third picture.

Elroy

 

[Gaijin]

Seems some could go out one further, for good record.

Question...

When it's half inch thick through, and 2 quarter inch sides, isn't it pretty safe to cut back to them 2 quarter inch sides?

Seems he has a rather safe cutting back bet.

All I know.....

You don't buy a AKC potential quality tree, and turn it into a matted rag.

Maybe if we always talked about the extensive amounts of quality Deciduous trees we see, how easy they are to make.....
But we don't.

Welcome to Crazy!

@Gaijin have a look at some of Mach5's trees development, and see if you'd rather have a Lambo in 20 years, or a pinto in 3.

Sorce

Yes, I know Mach5 is a top level guy. I'm still on the fence here, I'm not dismissing any ideas. Thanks

 

[sorce]

Yes, I know Mach5 is a top level guy. I'm still on the fence here, I'm not dismissing any ideas. Thanks

I understand your "yes" as rather dismissive, since there wasn't a yes or no question posed.

It's not about Mach5 being a top level guy, you make it sounds like I'm here to boost someone's ego.

It's that the truth you need to make the right decision, whatever it is, is in the pictures, in the understanding of the time frame.

"Whatever it is". So I don't understand your insinuating I was saying you were dismissing any idea's.

I feel like real "thanks" deserve periods.

Forgive me, but a lot of people "misunderstand" themselves out of good information, especially with me.

Sorce

 

[River's Edge]

Yes, I know Mach5 is a top level guy. I'm still on the fence here, I'm not dismissing any ideas. Thanks

It is important to view the advice through the proper lens. Some Bonsai enthusiasts seek out the highest level of starter material they can afford and then try to improve it for show purposes. They want something that can show almost immediate results, five to ten years.
Others select suitable material that is young enough to develop correctly, even though this takes longer. As Mach5 pointed out this tree is in the second category. It has the added advantage of natural growth habits to develop into a fine tree. Fifteen years will create a fine Bonsai with this starter. That is a very short time in the Bonsai world.
Top quality trees generally take 25 to 50 years to reach high levels of refinement. As a dwarf species your tree may already be ten years old.
If one is beginning that journey it is better to focus on choosing the best direction, rather than having to retrace ones steps! The same process will be necessary for success with faster growing material that often has too long internodes and too large leaves necessitating steps back to create shorter internodes and smaller leaves.
A second thought is that some of the more experienced voices on this forum have very little experience growing and developing young bonsai. They have focussed on other aspects. Many growers worldwide use colanders very effectively because they understand the strengths and weaknesses of their application. Colandars by design are wider and shallower than most Bonsai pots and they have the advantage of air pruning roots to discourage length and encourage bifurcation. They do necessitate careful watering and more conscientious attention in order to work well.
I like the potential of your tree and would follow the direction Sergio suggested as well.

 

[Gaijin]

I understand your "yes" as rather dismissive, since there wasn't a yes or no question posed.

It's not about Mach5 being a top level guy, you make it sounds like I'm here to boost someone's ego.

It's that the truth you need to make the right decision, whatever it is, is in the pictures, in the understanding of the time frame.

"Whatever it is". So I don't understand your insinuating I was saying you were dismissing any idea's.

I feel like real "thanks" deserve periods.

Forgive me, but a lot of people "misunderstand" themselves out of good information, especially with me.

Sorce

I wasn't insinuating anything. I was merely acknowledging your post in what I thought was a respectful manner. Thanks.

 

[Gaijin]

It is important to view the advice through the proper lens. Some Bonsai enthusiasts seek out the highest level of starter material they can afford and then try to improve it for show purposes. They want something that can show almost immediate results, five to ten years.
Others select suitable material that is young enough to develop correctly, even though this takes longer. As Mach5 pointed out this tree is in the second category. It has the added advantage of natural growth habits to develop into a fine tree. Fifteen years will create a fine Bonsai with this starter. That is a very short time in the Bonsai world.
Top quality trees generally take 25 to 50 years to reach high levels of refinement. As a dwarf species your tree may already be ten years old.
If one is beginning that journey it is better to focus on choosing the best direction, rather than having to retrace ones steps! The same process will be necessary for success with faster growing material that often has too long internodes and too large leaves necessitating steps back to create shorter internodes and smaller leaves.
A second thought is that some of the more experienced voices on this forum have very little experience growing and developing young bonsai. They have focussed on other aspects. Many growers worldwide use colanders very effectively because they understand the strengths and weaknesses of their application. Colandars by design are wider and shallower than most Bonsai pots and they have the advantage of air pruning roots to discourage length and encourage bifurcation. They do necessitate careful watering and more conscientious attention in order to work well.
I like the potential of your tree and would follow the direction Sergio suggested as well.

This is helpful. I believe this is the first anyone has mentioned the actual time frame involved. The tree was advertised as being 12 years old, so you're pretty close.

 

[Gaijin]

It is important to view the advice through the proper lens. Some Bonsai enthusiasts seek out the highest level of starter material they can afford and then try to improve it for show purposes. They want something that can show almost immediate results, five to ten years.
Others select suitable material that is young enough to develop correctly, even though this takes longer. As Mach5 pointed out this tree is in the second category. It has the added advantage of natural growth habits to develop into a fine tree. Fifteen years will create a fine Bonsai with this starter. That is a very short time in the Bonsai world.
Top quality trees generally take 25 to 50 years to reach high levels of refinement. As a dwarf species your tree may already be ten years old.
If one is beginning that journey it is better to focus on choosing the best direction, rather than having to retrace ones steps! The same process will be necessary for success with faster growing material that often has too long internodes and too large leaves necessitating steps back to create shorter internodes and smaller leaves.
A second thought is that some of the more experienced voices on this forum have very little experience growing and developing young bonsai. They have focussed on other aspects. Many growers worldwide use colanders very effectively because they understand the strengths and weaknesses of their application. Colandars by design are wider and shallower than most Bonsai pots and they have the advantage of air pruning roots to discourage length and encourage bifurcation. They do necessitate careful watering and more conscientious attention in order to work well.
I like the potential of your tree and would follow the direction Sergio suggested as well.

This is helpful. I believe this is the first anyone has mentioned the actual time frame involved. The tree was advertised as being 12 years old.

 

[sorce]

I wasn't insinuating anything. I was merely acknowledging your post in what I thought was a respectful manner. Thanks.

Forgive me I'm tarnished.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Forgive me I'm tarnished.

Sorce

Well, this is the first we've ever heard that kind of admission. WHO ARE YOU, AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH SORCE?

 

[Maloghurst]

@Gaijin have a look at some of Mach5's trees development, and see if you'd rather have a Lambo in 20 years, or a pinto in 3.

This is true but it’s also not true in that with the cutbacks this tree will look better in 3 years then without the cutbacks.
If you look closely at this sharps Pygmy posted here recently by someone else you can see the type of cutbacks that are being proposed.
With wire these would be an immediate improvement in the eyes of most people.
But as stated earlier no one wants you to screw up your tree and dwarf varieties can die back so you have to be careful. I recommend to seek hands on guidance in making the cuts. Workshop or fellow club member. Anyway have fun!