Scots Pine 'watereri' - Cut Back Possible to Old Needles?

[Ozz80]

I have this dwarf Scots Pine (possibly grafted, but it looks OK at the base), for which I have a few alternative ideas for design. I am wondering if it is safe to compact the branches (only the ones supposed to be in the final design) by pruning them to old needles, leaving 2 inches of needle foliage at each branch tip?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

My watereri buds profusely on cutsites in this years foliage. Cutting back farther could be risky though. It should work, but I found they can be slow to respond sometimes.

 

[Ozz80]

My watereri buds profusely on cutsites in this years foliage. Cutting back farther could be risky though. It should work, but I found they can be slow to respond sometimes.

Thanks for your response. Actually, I think I may risk to lose a year , as long as ramification and balance is improved without losing any branches. So I'll limit myself to this year's growth . I found this video later, I guess same tehnique is applied as you suggested on a watereri.

 

[Shibui]

Any pine will bud from healthy needles so you can safely cut back to any older needles if required.
It appears the new shoots on this one are relatively short and all well out on longer shoots from last year. I would definitely be chopping back into last year's growth over most of that tree. Leaving 2" of new shoots is not going to get you much further toward compacting this tree.
Scots pine is known for also back budding on bare wood after (harder) pruning provided you leave some healthy needles to keep the sap flowing.

New buds tend to develop closest to the ends of pruned shoots so I would be leaving a bit less than 2". I usually prune to leave just 4-6 pairs of needles on each shoot - whether that's new shoots or when cutting into older areas.

Your tree is quite congested. If you can pick out some redundant branches for complete removal, the reduction in competition and extra light will also help promote more back buds.

 

[Ozz80]

Any pine will bud from healthy needles so you can safely cut back to any older needles if required.
It appears the new shoots on this one are relatively short and all well out on longer shoots from last year. I would definitely be chopping back into last year's growth over most of that tree. Leaving 2" of new shoots is not going to get you much further toward compacting this tree.
Scots pine is known for also back budding on bare wood after (harder) pruning provided you leave some healthy needles to keep the sap flowing.

New buds tend to develop closest to the ends of pruned shoots so I would be leaving a bit less than 2". I usually prune to leave just 4-6 pairs of needles on each shoot - whether that's new shoots or when cutting into older areas.

Your tree is quite congested. If you can pick out some redundant branches for complete removal, the reduction in competition and extra light will also help promote more back buds.

Thanks for the answer, I guess since it will be a heavy pruning, I will have to split it to multiple seasons. There are also nasty looking bumps due to whorls and I will have to reduce them to two branches as well.

Would you suggest cutting back to old needles and removing branches to be done in mid-summer as well, as it is on @leatherback 's video?

 

[Shibui]

early to mid Summer is a good time to prune pines. It does not matter if you are just decandling (remove new growth) or cutting back harder to oldest needles. If it is early enough the new buds will sometimes open into new shoots but the shoots will be small so ideal for making good bonsai branching. Many single flush pines will just form new buds which will not open until next Spring. That's still a good result because you are getting shoots back where they are needed.
Pruning both single flush and dual flush pines later in Summer usually results in the same - new buds that don't open until Spring.
Pruning later in Autumn and Winter can result in delayed buds but they will almost always form as the trees come out of dormancy in Spring then continue to grow and open as normal.

So Summer is a good time but most of the year is a good time to prune pines in many places.

Thanks for the answer, I guess since it will be a heavy pruning, I will have to split it to multiple seasons.

I generally do a whole tree in one go. The tree is young and healthy and can cope with losing quite a lot of foliage no problem.
If you just prune part of a tree the parts you have not pruned tend to take all the food and energy which can starve the pruned parts and reduce bud formation. If you plan to only prune part of the tree I would do the entire top part as that's usually the dominant, strongest part. Pruning the bottom branches while leaving top to grow can lead to low branches dying.

 

[Ozz80]

early to mid Summer is a good time to prune pines. It does not matter if you are just decandling (remove new growth) or cutting back harder to oldest needles. If it is early enough the new buds will sometimes open into new shoots but the shoots will be small so ideal for making good bonsai branching. Many single flush pines will just form new buds which will not open until next Spring. That's still a good result because you are getting shoots back where they are needed.
Pruning both single flush and dual flush pines later in Summer usually results in the same - new buds that don't open until Spring.
Pruning later in Autumn and Winter can result in delayed buds but they will almost always form as the trees come out of dormancy in Spring then continue to grow and open as normal.

So Summer is a good time but most of the year is a good time to prune pines in many places.


I generally do a whole tree in one go. The tree is young and healthy and can cope with losing quite a lot of foliage no problem.
If you just prune part of a tree the parts you have not pruned tend to take all the food and energy which can starve the pruned parts and reduce bud formation. If you plan to only prune part of the tree I would do the entire top part as that's usually the dominant, strongest part. Pruning the bottom branches while leaving top to grow can lead to low branches dying.

thanks again, much appreciated.