rnlabarnes 6yr JBP Contest Thread Entry

[River's Edge]

Here are some shots of seedling cuttings. These have grown a lot this year also. Most are loaded with lower buds or branches. Most, if not all will be repotted in spring, possibly bare rooted (still trying to figure out bare rooting is going to set me back, might just do half) and potted up in different types of pots (pond baskets, clay, plastic, etc).

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Coming along nicely. From your comments i sense some hesitation as to what the next steps will entail and what the implications are? basically whatever extra work is done in the early stages will initially slow things down. Work avoided in the early stages creat issues later and slow things down. Classic conundrum! As a grower you have to decide what your priorities are in line with your time, space and resources.
My advice would be to err on the side of more careful development rather than more rapid development. In short more time on root work, wiring basic movement in the trunk initially rather than trying to speed up the growth with less intervention. Younger specimens withstand more root work than older specimens and recover quicker. it has been my experience that extra steps early on pay off in faster more even development later. And the changes are easier to make with younger material.
Focus on containers and soil mix that provide excellent drainage, work the roots carefully and at least once per year in the first three years. Make sure the basic desired wiring for trunk movement is done in the first two to three years depending on growth rate!

 

[Paul F.]

Those look awesome! A few of my good ones got some sort of black fungus as well and killed them in a few days. I was so bummed. I still got a bunch left but they were my good ones. All of my pines are about 6 months old and smaller than the ones you have. I can only wish mine look close to yours @RobertB. Nice job!

 

[RobertB]

Coming along nicely. From your comments i sense some hesitation as to what the next steps will entail and what the implications are? basically whatever extra work is done in the early stages will initially slow things down. Work avoided in the early stages creat issues later and slow things down. Classic conundrum! As a grower you have to decide what your priorities are in line with your time, space and resources.
My advice would be to err on the side of more careful development rather than more rapid development. In short more time on root work, wiring basic movement in the trunk initially rather than trying to speed up the growth with less intervention. Younger specimens withstand more root work than older specimens and recover quicker. it has been my experience that extra steps early on pay off in faster more even development later. And the changes are easier to make with younger material.
Focus on containers and soil mix that provide excellent drainage, work the roots carefully and at least once per year in the first three years. Make sure the basic desired wiring for trunk movement is done in the first two to three years depending on growth rate!

Frank, the only thing I really plan to do next year is to up pot them a size and stop dumping ferts directly on my soil. Was thinking of wiring some of the taller ones in spring but could end up waiting till winter 2019. With the repots, I would like to really not even disturb the roots but I want to get them in fresh fast draining mix.

What do you suggest? I'm really open? They seem to grow well in my environment.

 

[RobertB]

Those look awesome! A few of my good ones got some sort of black fungus as well and killed them in a few days. I was so bummed. I still got a bunch left but they were my good ones. All of my pines are about 6 months old and smaller than the ones you have. I can only wish mine look close to yours @RobertB. Nice job!

Paul, thank you for the kind words. I've been spraying mine with daconil at least once a month. Tried to stay on top of feeding also. They really seemed to reaspond to fertilizing. Every time I would add fertilizer they would start growing then slow down after a month or two. Could have been some coincidence too, or a little of both. I had a catipiller problem early in yr then some weird hard white stuff on the buds later. Lots of heavy summer and fall rain too.

 

[River's Edge]

Frank, the only thing I really plan to do next year is to up pot them a size and stop dumping ferts directly on my soil. Was thinking of wiring some of the taller ones in spring but could end up waiting till winter 2019. With the repots, I would like to really not even disturb the roots but I want to get them in fresh fast draining mix.

What do you suggest? I'm really open? They seem to grow well in my environment.

Each time i repot, i do some work to improve the roots. Gently place them radially, remove the strong downward roots, prevent crossing, try to ensure the strong ones left are on the same plane. Now, this will vary with each one. You will do different amounts depending on the situation. At this stage if the work is done carefully there is little chance the tree will be damaged. I use a wooden chopstick gently always working from the base out and only disturb what is needed. It is most important with the strongest, most vigorous plants. If needed create u shaped staples from wire to hold roots in new positions.
When any of your plants are reaching 3/8 to 1/2 inch in trunk diameter then consider wiring for movement in the trunk. Typically these will be taller in the range of 12 inches plus. You can expect this situation to occur by the end of the next growing season, a year from now.

 

[Paul F.]

Paul, thank you for the kind words. I've been spraying mine with daconil at least once a month. Tried to stay on top of feeding also. They really seemed to reaspond to fertilizing. Every time I would add fertilizer they would start growing then slow down after a month or two. Could have been some coincidence too, or a little of both. I had a catipiller problem early in yr then some weird hard white stuff on the buds later. Lots of heavy summer and fall rain too.

I feed mine every two weeks. I just use fish fertilizer, what do you use? They still dont grow very much.. I have them in full tropical sun too. I still dont understand why they wont grow. Ill take some better pics tomorrow. The root pruned ones seem to grow the slowest for me even though I only have a few. Im also afraid to separate them. This (best) batch is all in one big cermamic pot. I repotted another batch and I lost a few so Im gun shy now..

Also, how old are yours?


Sorry, not a very good picture but like I said, Il'll take a few better ones tomorrow.


These are a few of the root pruned ones. They've been this size for months.

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

Here are some shots of seedling cuttings. These have grown a lot this year also. Most are loaded with lower buds or branches. Most, if not all will be repotted in spring, possibly bare rooted (still trying to figure out bare rooting is going to set me back, might just do half) and potted up in different types of pots (pond baskets, clay, plastic, etc).

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I'm growing black pine seeds and huangshan pine from seed. Most my black pines are about half the size of yours if that but all my huangshan look close to the size of your larger ones. I didn't do seed cutting and I read huangshan are closely related to black pine so I'm going to treat them the same.

 

[Paul F.]

I'm growing black pine seeds and huangshan pine from seed. Most my black pines are about half the size of yours if that but all my huangshan look close to the size of your larger ones. I didn't do seed cutting and I read huangshan are closely related to black pine so I'm going to treat them the same.

I absolutely love my huangshan pines. They seem to grow faster than JBPs and I have to say, I like them better. I'm going to start growing more of them since I only have 5 now. I just ordered 100 more seeds from treeseeds.com. I'm going to stratify half of them and plant the other half straight out of the package and see how many I can get to sprout. I dig those little suckers.

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

I absolutely love my huangshan pines. They seem to grow faster than JBPs and I have to say, I like them better. I'm going to start growing more of them since I only have 5 now. I just ordered 100 more seeds from treeseeds.com. I'm going to stratify half of them and plant the other half straight out of the package and see how many I can get to sprout. I dig those little suckers.

I wanna try seedlings cutting with those

 

[Paul F.]

I wanna try seedlings cutting with those

I'm going to try it on this new batch for sure. Did you stratify your seeds?

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

I'm going to try it on this new batch for sure. Did you stratify your seeds?

Yeah about 20 to 30 days. I think the site called for 60. I had majority of mine sprout but all but 7 got eaten by birds and squirrels. The ones that survived were inside until the first true set of needles grew

 

[Paul F.]

I just read that pines like acidic soil. I actually never knew this or never bothered to look. What ph is bonsai mix like turface and such? Is it neutral? This article I read said the easiest way to reduce ph is to add some peat moss to make soil ph 4.5 to 5.5ish? Anyone do that or is everybody like nah..

 

[Paul F.]

@BonsaiNaga13 dude, I put my huangshan's in the fridge tonight. I put 50 in there and I'm going to sow 25 - 30 tomorrow straight out of the packet to see what germination rate I get without stratification. Ill still have about 50 seeds left so Ill just throw those in the fridge if the second batch doesn't work well.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I just read that pines like acidic soil. I actually never knew this or never bothered to look. What ph is bonsai mix like turface and such? Is it neutral? This article I read said the easiest way to reduce ph is to add some peat moss to make soil ph 4.5 to 5.5ish? Anyone do that or is everybody like nah..

They prefer acidic soil, but they do 'just fine' in a relatively broad range. My soil measures around 6-7 at the start, and I water with tap water of a pH around 8 and rainwater with a pH around 5.5. My organic nutrients release acids as well. Dead peat moss will lose it's acidity relatively fast when it's incorporated in the soil and watered daily. It's better on the long term, to adjust your water. Two or three tablespoons of regular vinegar (not the cleaning stuff) per bucket of water, every 3 waterings, should do the trick.
Using organic peat as a soil component isn't very weird either, but it's organic with all its drawbacks.

 

[Paul F.]

They prefer acidic soil, but they do 'just fine' in a relatively broad range. My soil measures around 6-7 at the start, and I water with tap water of a pH around 8 and rainwater with a pH around 5.5. My organic nutrients release acids as well. Dead peat moss will lose it's acidity relatively fast when it's incorporated in the soil and watered daily. It's better on the long term, to adjust your water. Two or three tablespoons of regular vinegar (not the cleaning stuff) per bucket of water, every 3 waterings, should do the trick.
Using organic peat as a soil component isn't very weird either, but it's organic with all its drawbacks.

Excellent information, thank you.. I was thought maybe that why my pines were looking ragged. I mean, they aren't that bad but I think they are just mostly surviving and not thriving. I mostly water them with rain water, mostly (South Park reference). One rainfall here in the Keys and my 50 gallon rain barrel is full and overflowing. I will definitely try the vinegar and see if that improves anything.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

From the pictures dating november 6th, I think they look just fine.
The first set of adult needles is always a bit off and wonky looking (at least, that's what all of my seedlings did, except for the ones planted in the ground). I don't see any reason to change what you're doing.
They will pick up the pace in spring, when given enough room and enough nutrients.

Mine are looking waaay worse. My JBP don't even have any adult needles yet.

 

[Paul F.]

They will pick up the pace in spring

It's always spring or summer here! LOL but I'm definitely going to re-pot all these guys this week. I re-planted 5 last week to test and they did fine. I'm sure being all mushed in there together isn't helping things.. As far as nutrients go, I've only give them fish fertilizer and about every few weeks. Do you think that's enough for pines or do they need something more? I think the fertilizer is 5-1-1.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I have had a layer of 1cm/0.4 inch of cow dung stacking up at the start of fall. That's what I dosed over the course of 5 months or so.
It contains around 10-7-7 of npk. The total estimated weight is around 50 grams of cow dung.

 

[moke]

@BonsaiNaga13 dude, I put my huangshan's in the fridge tonight. I put 50 in there and I'm going to sow 25 - 30 tomorrow straight out of the packet to see what germination rate I get without stratification. Ill still have about 50 seeds left so Ill just throw those in the fridge if the second batch doesn't work well.

You should start a thread on the Huangshans I would love to see how yours are coming along, I to am going to be receiving seeds soon and plan on growing them 2019. I’ll through mine up as well once I have something to share. In the mean time I would love to see some.

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

You should start a thread on the Huangshans I would love to see how yours are coming along, I to am going to be receiving seeds soon and plan on growing them 2019. I’ll through mine up as well once I have something to share. In the mean time I would love to see some.

I'm on it