sorce
Nonsense Rascal
The most recent readings, here, from a book I think @HorseloverFat posted, says the day after the full moon for repotting/transplanting.
I did a couple things this year then and a bit after with great success.
Sorce
Questions from a well-researched newbie
- Thread starter CliffracerX
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- identification maple seedling
The most recent readings, here, from a book I think @HorseloverFat posted, says the day after the full moon for repotting/transplanting.
I did a couple things this year then and a bit after with great success.
Sorce
Firstflush
Chumono
Do you see those spikey seed balls anywhere?
Another guess would be liquidambar? They reseed easy and make good bonsai.
i have been collecting seedlings that look just like those.
Another guess would be liquidambar? They reseed easy and make good bonsai.
i have been collecting seedlings that look just like those.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Well, you do the math. The leaves on the seedlings are pretty much the same as the 'parent' tree, which produced load of samaras (spinners). Yeah, they're Norway maple most likely. Not sweet gum, not red maple.
CliffracerX
Yamadori
I don't recall seeing any spikey seed balls, and most of the pictures I can find of liquidambar show a 5-lobed leaf, or three pretty wide lobes with fairly smooth edges - the seedlings I've been focusing on have three fairly compact lobes, and fairly jaggedy edges that sometimes resemble a 5-lobed structure.
I will note that I'm not 100% convinced the seedlings are the same species - the side lobes on Totoro's Tree are pretty long and at about a 45 degree angle, while many of the saplings have short side lobes that are more perpendicular to the main one, but that may be a side-effect of their being pretty young for all I know. I'm also having a lot of trouble finding any pictures of Norway Maples w/ that three-lobed structure, let alone seedlings - most things that show up in my Google Image search are explicitly named as other species! (this about sums up my Google Fu experience when things get down to the nitty-gritty, bah)
With that in mind, should I try and keep 'em going & give them more time to mature, hopefully get a better idea of what species they are?
CliffracerX
Yamadori
Got some much nicer pictures of the various saplings today to hopefully help narrow down identification somewhat.
First off is the big, bushy sapling that's been something of a recurring centerpiece in my pictures - which, on closer inspection, may actually be *two* saplings, I'm not sure. Either that, or the trunk has branched very close to where it comes out of the river rock, and in either case, is definitely a more complicated-looking little tree (or tree(s)) than I had initially thought. Bonus pic of the taller sapling often seen to the right of the bushy one as well - it's about the same height as the bushy one and looks great as always, though I'm concerned about the brown spots on the lowest leaves. These pictures were taken shortly after sunrise, when things were still pretty damp from morning fog.
The following pictures are from about two hours ago, after an hour or two of rain.
Next for comparison is a few saplings from underneath of Totoro's Tree, which look awfully similar, though much smaller as they're likely deprived of critical light & nutrients being underneath their massive parent.
Finally, some saplings from the front of the house that I had initially written off as a separate species due to their more pronounced 5-lobe-esque structure, but starting to wonder if they're all the same species now.
Bonus picture - two maples and a pine of some kind growing in a nook between two major branches on Totoro's Tree. This really serves no purpose for identification, it's more just...nature doing its thing and blowing me away a little.
I'm starting to wonder if *none* of these are actually descendants of Totoro's Tree, or if they *all* are and it's just that their leaf shapes change with maturity & so there's a wide variety of different shapes due to a wide variety of different levels of progression.
==NEXT STEPS==
My current gameplan, pending suggestions to the contrary, is to pick up some sizeable (13-inch wide by 10.1-inch tall) pots w/ drainage holes at Lowes & some regular Miracle-Gro potting soil + Perlite for extra drainage, and to try and transplant a couple into said pots on August 4th (first day after the full moon, as suggested by Sorce & HorseloverFat), in the hopes of keeping them alive & watching how they mature. Nothing's likely to be even close to usable for a year or two anyway, I figure there's no harm in it - if they turn out to be Acer Rubrum Trilobums or other species that do well for bonsai, it'll be a great way of learning by doing in every step of the trees' growth over the coming years, and if they turn out to all be Norway Maples with leaves the size of your head, it's no great loss - we can certainly find some lasting homes for them around the property, or make them into bigger bonsai down the line.
With that in mind - I am open to suggestions for alternate plans (e.g, bigger pots, change in transplant date, other potting material suggestions, etc); whatever I can do to help keep 'em alive & thriving until we have a clearer image of what they are, the better.
Longer-term, presuming they survive the transplant, I know the most important thing (aside from keeping them alive) is trunk growth, likely focusing somewhat on raw height to thicken it overall, with a bit extra on trying to coax the lower branches into growing longer to get some nice taper in. I'm also guessing that keeping them safe from well-below-freezing temperatures in the winter will be important - according to the USDA zone map, we can go as low as 0 degrees Fahrenheit here, which I have a feeling would *not* be good for the little guys without some degree of protection.
First off is the big, bushy sapling that's been something of a recurring centerpiece in my pictures - which, on closer inspection, may actually be *two* saplings, I'm not sure. Either that, or the trunk has branched very close to where it comes out of the river rock, and in either case, is definitely a more complicated-looking little tree (or tree(s)) than I had initially thought. Bonus pic of the taller sapling often seen to the right of the bushy one as well - it's about the same height as the bushy one and looks great as always, though I'm concerned about the brown spots on the lowest leaves. These pictures were taken shortly after sunrise, when things were still pretty damp from morning fog.
The following pictures are from about two hours ago, after an hour or two of rain.
Next for comparison is a few saplings from underneath of Totoro's Tree, which look awfully similar, though much smaller as they're likely deprived of critical light & nutrients being underneath their massive parent.
Finally, some saplings from the front of the house that I had initially written off as a separate species due to their more pronounced 5-lobe-esque structure, but starting to wonder if they're all the same species now.
Bonus picture - two maples and a pine of some kind growing in a nook between two major branches on Totoro's Tree. This really serves no purpose for identification, it's more just...nature doing its thing and blowing me away a little.
I'm starting to wonder if *none* of these are actually descendants of Totoro's Tree, or if they *all* are and it's just that their leaf shapes change with maturity & so there's a wide variety of different shapes due to a wide variety of different levels of progression.
==NEXT STEPS==
My current gameplan, pending suggestions to the contrary, is to pick up some sizeable (13-inch wide by 10.1-inch tall) pots w/ drainage holes at Lowes & some regular Miracle-Gro potting soil + Perlite for extra drainage, and to try and transplant a couple into said pots on August 4th (first day after the full moon, as suggested by Sorce & HorseloverFat), in the hopes of keeping them alive & watching how they mature. Nothing's likely to be even close to usable for a year or two anyway, I figure there's no harm in it - if they turn out to be Acer Rubrum Trilobums or other species that do well for bonsai, it'll be a great way of learning by doing in every step of the trees' growth over the coming years, and if they turn out to all be Norway Maples with leaves the size of your head, it's no great loss - we can certainly find some lasting homes for them around the property, or make them into bigger bonsai down the line.
With that in mind - I am open to suggestions for alternate plans (e.g, bigger pots, change in transplant date, other potting material suggestions, etc); whatever I can do to help keep 'em alive & thriving until we have a clearer image of what they are, the better.
Longer-term, presuming they survive the transplant, I know the most important thing (aside from keeping them alive) is trunk growth, likely focusing somewhat on raw height to thicken it overall, with a bit extra on trying to coax the lower branches into growing longer to get some nice taper in. I'm also guessing that keeping them safe from well-below-freezing temperatures in the winter will be important - according to the USDA zone map, we can go as low as 0 degrees Fahrenheit here, which I have a feeling would *not* be good for the little guys without some degree of protection.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Opposite bud pattern so definitely not sweet gum.
Many species have different juvenile leaves. There will usually also be some genetic variation in seedlings so it can be difficult to be sure for the first couple of years.
Many species have different juvenile leaves. There will usually also be some genetic variation in seedlings so it can be difficult to be sure for the first couple of years.
CliffracerX
Yamadori
So, status update on how things are going, since I planned to make that a thing - can move ongoing progress to a separate thread if need-be at mod request, not sure if making this a progress thread would be alright since it's in New To Bonsai.
==TRANSPLANT STATUS==
Putting off transplant at least a day as things were extremely busy early in the day, then one of the other peeps in the household who was gonna be helping out took a minor case of mountain to the knee earlier. No lasting harm but probably best to let that recover for a day before kneeling down to play in the dirt & rocks
That aside, have more or less got a gameplan, and priorities for which trees to grab & what to put them in - we have a couple of different sizes & shapes of planters, and plan to do something along the lines of the following:
According to an off-the-shelf testing tool (one of those vaguely roundy off-the-shelf 3-in-1 tools for moisture, light, and pH, with an analogue dial, two prongs, a BPW34 photodiode for power/light detection, and a 3-way switch for selecting mode) the regular potting soil we have (just generic Miracle-Gro type) when watered from an RO source & mostly filling up an empty 3d-printed succulent pot, has a pretty high pH, likely somewhere from 7.5-8, meaning it's *way* too alkaline for any sort of maple I'm aware of. Dribbling a small amount of lemon juice in (I think about a teaspoon) dropped it to 6.5-7, though I understand that's a non-optimal short term solution and you *have* to dilute the lemon juice otherwise you will burn up the plants.
Note that I am admittedly uncertain as to if the readings can be trusted - these tools are not the best reviewed & some people say you need to scrub down the tips with something pretty abrasive first to get an accurate reading.
Soil-wise, I was planning on mixing it somewhere around 25-50% Miracle-Gro Perlite (as that's what we have on hand) w/ the remainder being regular potting soil, but open to alternative suggestions as supposedly the Perlite at least (and maybe the regular soil?) do contain a fertiliser of some sort, and common knowledge is that you do *not* want fertiliser in your soil at first if I understand correctly.
As for what to actually do come transplant time, my guesstimated order of operations would be:
==TREE STATUS==
It's a little astounding looking at pictures taken over the last 9 days to compare - all the seedlings are decidedly bigger & fuller-grown as compared to how they were in the initial post.
The big, bushy one w/ two trunks (or two trees) is looking relatively good. The odd yellowing on the one leftmost leaf is, well, odd - haven't seen that on any of the other seedlings so far. Based on some reading about soil acidity (or lack thereof), I'm wondering if this is a sign it's either getting too alkaline a water intake, and/or the soil is becoming mineral-deficient - the yellowy outsides with greener veins is supposedly a symptom of such things on other kinds of plant, if I understand correctly?
The tall one to the right of the big bushy one has been growing at an impressive rate - and my angle for taking pictures has been so consistent I was able to make a halfway-decent gif of its growth over the past 9 days.
It's looking extremely promising as possible material for a Formal Upright, and would be one of the ones I'd classify as mid-range for potting purposes.
The other ones on their side of the house are more or less following the same pattern of growing, though none seem to be going quite as fast as that main tall one - which admittedly may be a failure of observation since I've not documented their growth nearly so well as these two. I neglected to take enough pictures before it got dark, so alas no pictures to be had here.
Finally, one of the ones I'd pointed out from the opposite side of the house drew my attention today when I realised it has developed actual branches with multiple leaves, so here's some more pictures of it specifically, feat. a photobomb from a chitinous leg ninja:
I am, however, concerned about the white spots & brown patches on some of the lower leaves - I assume it's just shenanigans from insects and not a sign of imminent destruction, as it otherwise looks very healthy.
Presuming it'd be fine to transplant as well, it's the one I'd have in mind for the largest pot - it's probably the seedling farthest along that I've seen, as it's the only one to have multiple actual *branches* as opposed to single leaves coming directly off the trunk.
From continuing to research - and peruse other people's beautiful Acer Rubrum bonsai here on the forums - I'm still pretty convinced most of the seedlings are Acer Rubrums of some kind, and that they're likely *not* descendants of Totoro's Tree, which is admittedly a bit confounding to me; I'd have expected to find a lot more descendants of it, but most every one of the seedlings share the Rubrum-style leaves. Only one on a *different* side of the house breaks from that standard, and it does indeed already have leaves nearly as big as my fists with long, pointy side-lobes much more like Totoro's Tree. I'm not even sure where they came from if they *are* Rubrums, so may need to make a point of ambling up the mountains on a cooler day to try and figure out where their parents are.
==TRANSPLANT STATUS==
Putting off transplant at least a day as things were extremely busy early in the day, then one of the other peeps in the household who was gonna be helping out took a minor case of mountain to the knee earlier. No lasting harm but probably best to let that recover for a day before kneeling down to play in the dirt & rocks
That aside, have more or less got a gameplan, and priorities for which trees to grab & what to put them in - we have a couple of different sizes & shapes of planters, and plan to do something along the lines of the following:
- Smaller seedlings that look like they have potential, but are still pretty small & inscrutable will probably go in batches of 2 or 3 to some long-but-thin-ish planters.
- The mid-range seedlings (like the big bushy one that may be two trees or just one very impressive split trunk, or the tall one near it) will go in the big-ish round pots.
- Then the precious few large ones - of which I only know of one right now - will go in a sizable deep square pot to really hopefully encourage it to grow out.
According to an off-the-shelf testing tool (one of those vaguely roundy off-the-shelf 3-in-1 tools for moisture, light, and pH, with an analogue dial, two prongs, a BPW34 photodiode for power/light detection, and a 3-way switch for selecting mode) the regular potting soil we have (just generic Miracle-Gro type) when watered from an RO source & mostly filling up an empty 3d-printed succulent pot, has a pretty high pH, likely somewhere from 7.5-8, meaning it's *way* too alkaline for any sort of maple I'm aware of. Dribbling a small amount of lemon juice in (I think about a teaspoon) dropped it to 6.5-7, though I understand that's a non-optimal short term solution and you *have* to dilute the lemon juice otherwise you will burn up the plants.
Note that I am admittedly uncertain as to if the readings can be trusted - these tools are not the best reviewed & some people say you need to scrub down the tips with something pretty abrasive first to get an accurate reading.
Soil-wise, I was planning on mixing it somewhere around 25-50% Miracle-Gro Perlite (as that's what we have on hand) w/ the remainder being regular potting soil, but open to alternative suggestions as supposedly the Perlite at least (and maybe the regular soil?) do contain a fertiliser of some sort, and common knowledge is that you do *not* want fertiliser in your soil at first if I understand correctly.
As for what to actually do come transplant time, my guesstimated order of operations would be:
- Likely get the pots set up first (e.g, 25-50% filled at least since we're operating on the assumption they are literally just living in raw river rocks w/out soil, maybe watered until moist - not sure if that's recommended or not)
- Haul them down to the side of the house to transplant from
- Carefully remove the river rocks around the seedlings to get at their base & maybe root system, depending on if they're literally growing freely in river rock with no soil at all vs. the river rocks are just on top of the soil they actually sprouted in
- If the former, likely just carefully and gently pick it up since it's not attached to anything, placing it in the pot and shifting some of the soil back on top of the roots
- If the latter, retrieve a proper gardening trowel & carefully dig up around them while avoiding the roots, then transplant the combined mass of soil and rootball into the pot
- Move pot(s) to a central location, water if necessary
- Repeat this for each side where transplants are happening
- Monitor and water as needed
- P A T I E N C E
- In the longer term, winterising will probably be a necessity since 6b chills can be *bad* & I have a feeling they would wreck the root system
==TREE STATUS==
It's a little astounding looking at pictures taken over the last 9 days to compare - all the seedlings are decidedly bigger & fuller-grown as compared to how they were in the initial post.
The big, bushy one w/ two trunks (or two trees) is looking relatively good. The odd yellowing on the one leftmost leaf is, well, odd - haven't seen that on any of the other seedlings so far. Based on some reading about soil acidity (or lack thereof), I'm wondering if this is a sign it's either getting too alkaline a water intake, and/or the soil is becoming mineral-deficient - the yellowy outsides with greener veins is supposedly a symptom of such things on other kinds of plant, if I understand correctly?
The tall one to the right of the big bushy one has been growing at an impressive rate - and my angle for taking pictures has been so consistent I was able to make a halfway-decent gif of its growth over the past 9 days.
It's looking extremely promising as possible material for a Formal Upright, and would be one of the ones I'd classify as mid-range for potting purposes.
The other ones on their side of the house are more or less following the same pattern of growing, though none seem to be going quite as fast as that main tall one - which admittedly may be a failure of observation since I've not documented their growth nearly so well as these two. I neglected to take enough pictures before it got dark, so alas no pictures to be had here.
Finally, one of the ones I'd pointed out from the opposite side of the house drew my attention today when I realised it has developed actual branches with multiple leaves, so here's some more pictures of it specifically, feat. a photobomb from a chitinous leg ninja:
I am, however, concerned about the white spots & brown patches on some of the lower leaves - I assume it's just shenanigans from insects and not a sign of imminent destruction, as it otherwise looks very healthy.
Presuming it'd be fine to transplant as well, it's the one I'd have in mind for the largest pot - it's probably the seedling farthest along that I've seen, as it's the only one to have multiple actual *branches* as opposed to single leaves coming directly off the trunk.
From continuing to research - and peruse other people's beautiful Acer Rubrum bonsai here on the forums - I'm still pretty convinced most of the seedlings are Acer Rubrums of some kind, and that they're likely *not* descendants of Totoro's Tree, which is admittedly a bit confounding to me; I'd have expected to find a lot more descendants of it, but most every one of the seedlings share the Rubrum-style leaves. Only one on a *different* side of the house breaks from that standard, and it does indeed already have leaves nearly as big as my fists with long, pointy side-lobes much more like Totoro's Tree. I'm not even sure where they came from if they *are* Rubrums, so may need to make a point of ambling up the mountains on a cooler day to try and figure out where their parents are.
Kanorin
Omono
Welcome! I am another well-researched newbie, like yourself. Keep up the questions and the research.
This spring I started growing a few dozen red maples from seed (mainly because we have a few on our street) and now have a few juvenile red maple forests sitting on my bench. Are they going to look good as bonsai in 10 years? I have no idea, but I can tell you that your seedlings look spot on with my seedlings. The parent tree also looks like acer rubrum to my eye, but even if it's a norway maple - it could be possible that the other parent is a red maple. I know that red maples can hybridize with silver maples, but I don't know all the different permutations of other species within the genus.
These are super hardy and fast-growing trees that can tolerate a lot of sun if they get enough water. If they are red maples, another name for them is swamp maples. They tolerate humidity and having wet feet more so than other maples, but they still need decent drainage if put into a pot. I'll throw out a few options for ways you can grow them and I'd wager any of them will keep them alive. You could even try digging up and potting a few, putting a few into the ground (soil), and leaving a few in the rocks - see which do best!
This spring I started growing a few dozen red maples from seed (mainly because we have a few on our street) and now have a few juvenile red maple forests sitting on my bench. Are they going to look good as bonsai in 10 years? I have no idea, but I can tell you that your seedlings look spot on with my seedlings. The parent tree also looks like acer rubrum to my eye, but even if it's a norway maple - it could be possible that the other parent is a red maple. I know that red maples can hybridize with silver maples, but I don't know all the different permutations of other species within the genus.
These are super hardy and fast-growing trees that can tolerate a lot of sun if they get enough water. If they are red maples, another name for them is swamp maples. They tolerate humidity and having wet feet more so than other maples, but they still need decent drainage if put into a pot. I'll throw out a few options for ways you can grow them and I'd wager any of them will keep them alive. You could even try digging up and potting a few, putting a few into the ground (soil), and leaving a few in the rocks - see which do best!
- Leave them in the rocks until spring, or even for a few years. Put some mulch over the rocks around them to help with moisture retention. Water them if they start to droop a bit. Fertilize every 2 weeks or so (mainly because I don't know how deep that rock bed is).
- Carefully dig them up and pot them. Miracle grow or similar potting soil will be ok for a year or so - especially if you sift out the fines. If home depot is your only real option for soils, I'd go and ask them which of their soils have the largest particle size or have the best drainage. Water them if they start to droop a bit. Fertilize every 2 weeks or so.
- Carefully dig them up and plant them in the soil in your yard in a good spot with 4-8 hours of sun. Water them if they start to droop a bit. Fertilizing isn't really necessary if they are in soil.
Kanorin
Omono
I'll add: this seemed to be a good guide to parsing apart different types of maples
Winterizing can just be burying the pots up to their brim in the ground next to a wind break (probably on the eastern side of a building) and putting some mulch over the soil.
I wouldn't mess too much with the pH - at least for this year. I think these are fairly tolerant of a range - my water is 7.6 out of the tap. Adding some organics or a mulch over the top will lower the pH slightly.
Winterizing can just be burying the pots up to their brim in the ground next to a wind break (probably on the eastern side of a building) and putting some mulch over the soil.
I wouldn't mess too much with the pH - at least for this year. I think these are fairly tolerant of a range - my water is 7.6 out of the tap. Adding some organics or a mulch over the top will lower the pH slightly.
CliffracerX
Yamadori
@Kanorin
Thanks for the warm welcome, and glad to hear I'm not alone in well-researched Acer Rubrum newbitude!
'Tis interesting to hear they could be hybrids of some sort - I definitely need to make a point of trawling around the property to try and track down other maples, no matter if Totoro's Tree is indeed also an Acer Rubrum as I'd originally expected.
Good to know they're durable little guys - that definitely makes my life easier.
W/rt to your advice about soil: we have a Lowes, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, *and* Target near here, so generic off-the-shelf supplies are relatively accessible, issues with stuff not being available from curbside pickup aside. We can also just get some higher-quality soil online down the line, so long as they'll be fine in Miracle-Gro for a while I don't think it's a huge deal. Any suggestions on fertiliser mix/brands, though?
I'm not too sure about leaving them in the river-rock, at least not without actually having had a chance to gawp at their root system & the likes, which hopefully should happen later today assuming we don't end up with another case of acute Mountain To The Knee syndrome or the likes - presuming all goes well, I'll be sharing pictures from the process after the fact for future reference.
As for winterizing, that's...definitely less complicated than I was expecting, haha - a bit of a nuisance, maybe, but certainly doable.
Also good to hear they're more pH-tolerant & can survive happily enough even with pH of 7.5-8ish!
Finally, got any pictures of your forests to share? I'm curious to see & hear more about other peeps' experiences growing Acer Rubrums for bonsai purposes from this young an age.
Thanks for the warm welcome, and glad to hear I'm not alone in well-researched Acer Rubrum newbitude!
'Tis interesting to hear they could be hybrids of some sort - I definitely need to make a point of trawling around the property to try and track down other maples, no matter if Totoro's Tree is indeed also an Acer Rubrum as I'd originally expected.
Good to know they're durable little guys - that definitely makes my life easier.
W/rt to your advice about soil: we have a Lowes, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, *and* Target near here, so generic off-the-shelf supplies are relatively accessible, issues with stuff not being available from curbside pickup aside. We can also just get some higher-quality soil online down the line, so long as they'll be fine in Miracle-Gro for a while I don't think it's a huge deal. Any suggestions on fertiliser mix/brands, though?
I'm not too sure about leaving them in the river-rock, at least not without actually having had a chance to gawp at their root system & the likes, which hopefully should happen later today assuming we don't end up with another case of acute Mountain To The Knee syndrome or the likes - presuming all goes well, I'll be sharing pictures from the process after the fact for future reference.
As for winterizing, that's...definitely less complicated than I was expecting, haha - a bit of a nuisance, maybe, but certainly doable.
Also good to hear they're more pH-tolerant & can survive happily enough even with pH of 7.5-8ish!
Finally, got any pictures of your forests to share? I'm curious to see & hear more about other peeps' experiences growing Acer Rubrums for bonsai purposes from this young an age.
Kanorin
Omono
Here are two of my forests. Definitely need to work on the spacing at next repot, but it was a fun learning experience.
Before I invested in some organic pellets, I was using miracle gro liquid fertilizer that I got from Lowe's. This one I'm pretty sure. It's made to go with some kind of hose attachment, but I just diluted at 1 tsp per gallon in a watering can. Fed about once every ten days.
Before I invested in some organic pellets, I was using miracle gro liquid fertilizer that I got from Lowe's. This one I'm pretty sure. It's made to go with some kind of hose attachment, but I just diluted at 1 tsp per gallon in a watering can. Fed about once every ten days.
CliffracerX
Yamadori
Transplanting was a success, though further work is gonna have to wait until at least tomorrow as we need more perlite - and light - to keep working. Gonna break down how things went, pot-by-pot.
==STARTING POINT==
First step was to punch out drain holes in all the pots - they were all technically "self-watering" ones but had points left in explicitly for punching drain holes into. After that, we filled the three tall & round pots mentioned in an earlier post up about 10-15% with Perlite, and about 60-65% on top with Miracle Gro soil, leaving the rest of the space empty. Later did more or less the same for a long pot.
==THE TALL UPRIGHT SEEDLING==
This was our first one, and we started by moving the rocks away from its trunk to get a better look at things.
The roots had both merged with & in some places poked down past the ground cloth that the river rock was on top of, so careful application of a multi-tool knife was required to disconnect the cloth where possible & minimize root tearing. That wasn't enough, so we also moistened the soil using the hose to try and loosen things up.
With more careful work we were able to successfully extract it from the soil!
A few minutes later, it was potted comfortably and well-watered.
-SMALL NOTE-
The pH reading across this, and all watered pots was at least 7.5, probably closer to 8 or more. It was watered from a hose this time, rather than RO water from the indoors. While it does sound like these guys are more tolerant of alkaline soil than other species, definitely want to get that pH down towards 6.5-7 over time - any recommendations from other explorers of the tiny forest?
Next up on the docket:
==THE MYSTERY BUSH==
At long last, the question was to be answered: one tree with two trunks or two trees with one trunk each? It wasn't immediately evident on clearing away the rocks.
So we applied the same soil moistening & multitool application to clear away some of the ground cloth, revealing that it was likely two trees entwined around one another. This became more apparent once they were extracted from the ground.
However, at a very slight force, they unhooked from one another to reveal that it was definitively two trees.
With some most impressive root symmetry, to boot.
Not long afterwards, they were also comfortably potted & watered, and the forest grew to three.
Now we decided to grab some smaller seedlings as well, in the name of SCIENCE and having a few more in case disaster strikes.
==MIXED SMALL SEEDLINGS==
When grabbing the tall upright one, we'd also grabbed a tiny little guy nearby that was easier to pull due to a smaller root system. Pretty nondescript & out of attachments, so no pictures here.
After the main seedlings were done, we went around looking for other small ones of interest. Down in the front we discovered a detailed one with a branching trunk that was still quite small! A few minutes later, it was liberated from the river rock.
Finally, we looked for one in the front, and found what was by far the longest of the lot; it was in a section of deep river rocks and was basically *all trunk* - though admittedly a very thin one - with a tiny grouping of leaves at the top. They were soon all together & well-watered in the long pot.
The light was fading fast, we were weary, and the local wren families were more than a little ticked off we were keeping them awake by milling around near their nest, so we were pretty eager to get inside afterwards. No pictures of the final potting setup or the super-long one here, I'm out of attachments - whoops!
==NEXT STEPS==
Tomorrow, hopefully, we'll get one of the bigger pots set up & transplant the truly massive multi-branched one that caught my eye in the most recent post w/ pics. Will also be grabbing the fertiliser Kanorin recommended (TYVM for helping point me in the right direction here!) and probably some basic tools, if we can find 'em. After that, it's just a matter of patience & hoping they survive.
Status updates to continue in the coming weeks, hopefully stretching into the coming months & years.
==POSTAL NOTE==
@Kanorin Your forests are looking beautiful so far! The little guys on our property are definitely the spitting image of yours, albiet with slightly more angular & pointy leaves - which could very well be a minor genome difference or quirk of their age for all I know. In any case, brings me joy & comfort to see other little Acer Rubrums on the road to becoming part of the tiny forest
==STARTING POINT==
First step was to punch out drain holes in all the pots - they were all technically "self-watering" ones but had points left in explicitly for punching drain holes into. After that, we filled the three tall & round pots mentioned in an earlier post up about 10-15% with Perlite, and about 60-65% on top with Miracle Gro soil, leaving the rest of the space empty. Later did more or less the same for a long pot.
==THE TALL UPRIGHT SEEDLING==
This was our first one, and we started by moving the rocks away from its trunk to get a better look at things.
The roots had both merged with & in some places poked down past the ground cloth that the river rock was on top of, so careful application of a multi-tool knife was required to disconnect the cloth where possible & minimize root tearing. That wasn't enough, so we also moistened the soil using the hose to try and loosen things up.
With more careful work we were able to successfully extract it from the soil!
A few minutes later, it was potted comfortably and well-watered.
-SMALL NOTE-
The pH reading across this, and all watered pots was at least 7.5, probably closer to 8 or more. It was watered from a hose this time, rather than RO water from the indoors. While it does sound like these guys are more tolerant of alkaline soil than other species, definitely want to get that pH down towards 6.5-7 over time - any recommendations from other explorers of the tiny forest?
Next up on the docket:
==THE MYSTERY BUSH==
At long last, the question was to be answered: one tree with two trunks or two trees with one trunk each? It wasn't immediately evident on clearing away the rocks.
So we applied the same soil moistening & multitool application to clear away some of the ground cloth, revealing that it was likely two trees entwined around one another. This became more apparent once they were extracted from the ground.
However, at a very slight force, they unhooked from one another to reveal that it was definitively two trees.
With some most impressive root symmetry, to boot.
Not long afterwards, they were also comfortably potted & watered, and the forest grew to three.
Now we decided to grab some smaller seedlings as well, in the name of SCIENCE and having a few more in case disaster strikes.
==MIXED SMALL SEEDLINGS==
When grabbing the tall upright one, we'd also grabbed a tiny little guy nearby that was easier to pull due to a smaller root system. Pretty nondescript & out of attachments, so no pictures here.
After the main seedlings were done, we went around looking for other small ones of interest. Down in the front we discovered a detailed one with a branching trunk that was still quite small! A few minutes later, it was liberated from the river rock.
Finally, we looked for one in the front, and found what was by far the longest of the lot; it was in a section of deep river rocks and was basically *all trunk* - though admittedly a very thin one - with a tiny grouping of leaves at the top. They were soon all together & well-watered in the long pot.
The light was fading fast, we were weary, and the local wren families were more than a little ticked off we were keeping them awake by milling around near their nest, so we were pretty eager to get inside afterwards. No pictures of the final potting setup or the super-long one here, I'm out of attachments - whoops!
==NEXT STEPS==
Tomorrow, hopefully, we'll get one of the bigger pots set up & transplant the truly massive multi-branched one that caught my eye in the most recent post w/ pics. Will also be grabbing the fertiliser Kanorin recommended (TYVM for helping point me in the right direction here!) and probably some basic tools, if we can find 'em. After that, it's just a matter of patience & hoping they survive.
Status updates to continue in the coming weeks, hopefully stretching into the coming months & years.
==POSTAL NOTE==
@Kanorin Your forests are looking beautiful so far! The little guys on our property are definitely the spitting image of yours, albiet with slightly more angular & pointy leaves - which could very well be a minor genome difference or quirk of their age for all I know. In any case, brings me joy & comfort to see other little Acer Rubrums on the road to becoming part of the tiny forest
CliffracerX
Yamadori
Status update, dawn afternoon of the first day: none of the trees look happy. They're almost definitely in shock, though I'm nervous they could be asphyxiating and/or being too sodden due to the soil mix. It's an overcast day, and they're in an area that doesn't get as much direct sunlight regularly, with current readings from the 3-in-1 meter saying ~1000 foot-candles (10,763.9 lux) of light where they are. Soil is still pretty damp (7-8 on the meter) which suggests to me it might not be draining enough. pH readings are also still topped out at 7.5-8 on the meter, which is unsurprising but nevertheless concerning.
Pictures of the large seedlings:
The small ones:
Pictures of the large seedlings:
The small ones:
High pH can lead to chlorosis, see if you can lower it somehow, Im sure the Internet will know.
Low turgor/ water pressure is extremely dangerous when left untreated, it doesnt lead to dieback, it kills the whole plant. Lost several that way this year. Remove at least some of the leaves, maybe half. If then after 2 or 3 days the leaves stand firm again, theyre good. If not, itll probably be too late to help them.
Low turgor/ water pressure is extremely dangerous when left untreated, it doesnt lead to dieback, it kills the whole plant. Lost several that way this year. Remove at least some of the leaves, maybe half. If then after 2 or 3 days the leaves stand firm again, theyre good. If not, itll probably be too late to help them.
Kanorin
Omono
Their root systems were disturbed - expect them to droop a bit for a few days, that's normal.
It's good that you have them in less sunlight - I'd probably keep them in mostly shade for a week (dappled shade all day with no more than an hour of direct morning sun). Then as they bounce back (fingers crossed), transition them to more and more direct sun. You could also mist the foliage periodically to help moisture loss through transpiration as they grow some new roots.
It's good that you have them in less sunlight - I'd probably keep them in mostly shade for a week (dappled shade all day with no more than an hour of direct morning sun). Then as they bounce back (fingers crossed), transition them to more and more direct sun. You could also mist the foliage periodically to help moisture loss through transpiration as they grow some new roots.
Kanorin
Omono
Agree that removing a few of the lower leaves is probably a good idea. You can leave just the top two-three leaves on each.
CliffracerX
Yamadori
Thanks for the hasty advice, both of you!
W/rt to trimming to hopefully help combat the low water pressure, which leaves should I prioritise leaving on, and which should I trim? And should I be using a specific tool for it (e.g, flush cutters or something) or would regular kitchen scissors or the likes do fine?
As for shade: we have a screen porch (which I think I mentioned in a previous post?) that's got a proper roof, and its brightest areas on a sunny day get about 400 ft-candles (~4,305.56 lux), and might see a brief period of direct sunlight at sunrise. Would that be a better place to leave 'em for the time being?
W/rt to trimming to hopefully help combat the low water pressure, which leaves should I prioritise leaving on, and which should I trim? And should I be using a specific tool for it (e.g, flush cutters or something) or would regular kitchen scissors or the likes do fine?
As for shade: we have a screen porch (which I think I mentioned in a previous post?) that's got a proper roof, and its brightest areas on a sunny day get about 400 ft-candles (~4,305.56 lux), and might see a brief period of direct sunlight at sunrise. Would that be a better place to leave 'em for the time being?
Its really just about reducing leaf surface. But I would preferentially remove any leaves that are already damaged. Tool doesnt matter.
Kanorin
Omono
The screened porch seems like a perfect place for a 1-2 week recovery, then slowly introduce them to more and more sunlight over the course of ~3 weeks.
The kitchen scissors will be fine for leaf removal.
Some people remove several of the basal leaves completely. If you do this, cut in the middle of the petiole (leaf stem) between the branch and the leaf to avoid damaging any buds at the base of the petiole. The reason that the apical leaves are left remaining is because they produce the highest levels of auxin, which will help drive new root formation (after roots have been damaged or removed).
Some people cut all the leaves in half.
The kitchen scissors will be fine for leaf removal.
Some people remove several of the basal leaves completely. If you do this, cut in the middle of the petiole (leaf stem) between the branch and the leaf to avoid damaging any buds at the base of the petiole. The reason that the apical leaves are left remaining is because they produce the highest levels of auxin, which will help drive new root formation (after roots have been damaged or removed).
Some people cut all the leaves in half.
