Pre-bonsai Trees - this may be a dumb question, but...

[Charlo]

This a great call out and I suspect is at least some of the reason I've had some issues. I first tried using adding some ferrous sulfate to filtered water but that didn't seem to work well. Am now trying just filtered water, but any suggestions would be great, as "collecting rainwater" isn't possible here in the desert.

I am not sure where in So-Cal you are, but I live in a high dry dry desert in ABQ where city water is about 80% water 20% other deep ground stuff, JK, but it is very hard water. I collect rainwater into 3 troughs, and then transfer to multiple 3 gallon jugs. I have quite a few trees so yeah, watering is a lot of work. I used to buy filtered water and it worked well, but I really like rainwater. I also have an above the sink RO system when I run out of water. I have yet to use it, but when I do I will mix it with partial city water.

 

[Attmos]

Not quite everyone and not quite no-one. There are still a few of us that persist with organic potting mixes. Especially those with hotter, drier Summers. maybe we just don't keep banging on about it all the time.
I think if you read through some of the potting soil threads you'll find that I am not the only dinosaur but it has been a while since we had a really good potting soil thread. They used to get quite heated at times.

It's actually really nice to hear that, kind of loosens up what seem like strict guidelines to success as a horticulturist and bonsai artist if you understand my meaning.

I was misunderstanding what you said at first because it sounded so horribly 'against the rules'.... lol
"Heresy" as Bonsella calls it.

 

[stubmle]

Yeah I could imagine, because it's just used to clean up oil, that the bags have a lot of crushed material in them. I'm sure being transported here and there, the bags being thrown around, stacked highly.... none of that helps.

I recommend reading some of the old threads that talk about 8822 in detail. You are correct that it sometimes gets pulverized in shipping/handling, so particle size can vary wildly depending on if the bag came from the top or bottom of the pallet. Needs to be sifted and washed (outdoors! with a mask!) before use in any case.
Also worth mentioning that there seems to be more than one source for the DE they use in 8822 and they are not quite the same material. One source is good; it's off-white when dry, kind of pinkish/brownish when wet.It can be easily crushed with your fingers when wet, but holds up well to extended wetness otherwise. That's what we have in my area.
If memory serves, the bad stuff is more gray in color when wet, and has a tendency to break down when wet for long periods. I haven't run into that kind myself, but others on here have & have posted about it before.
This was discussed years ago, so maybe NAPA changed suppliers at some point or maybe it's related to geographical area. It would probably be a good idea to give the material an extended soak test before using it. If it doesn't dissolve when left in water overnight, it's probably fine.
So far 8822 has worked all right for me but your mileage may vary. I don't use it one anything nice, just cheap stuff I am developing.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

It’s sometimes good to be the dinosaur in the lot! It’s always the results that matter most.

We need all kinds of BN critters to help folks here.

Best
DSD sends

 

[Attmos]

It would probably be a good idea to give the material an extended soak test before using it. If it doesn't dissolve when left in water overnight, it's probably fine.

This is good to know, thanks.

 

[Michael P]

There are still a few of us that persist with organic potting mixes. Especially those with hotter, drier Summers. maybe we just don't keep banging on about it all the time.

Thank you! I use about 25 to 33% organic components and my trees survive and grow in the Texas summer.

 

[Attmos]

Ohio summers are hot, but not Texas hot. There's a significant amount of humidity and temps only sometimes reach the high 90s, almost never above 100 degrees.

I think I might be using too much organic matter for the amount of humidity in the air. I haven't spent a lot of money, but I have mixed akadama, pumice, top soil with a lot of bark, and pea gravel. No idea if there's enough aggregate in the mix.

From everything that's been said, I think less organic matter would do my trees some good. Although, I do have a stock pile now of pasta strainers that allow for more transpiration.

There really are no hard-and-fast rules to growing trees, are there... it's just finding the right balance of the materials you use.

Just thinking out loud with my fingers, sorry.

 

[Coppersdad]

First, there are no dumb questions, only stupid answers.

Respectfully, there is never a dumb question if you don't know the answer.
(There might be insensitive, even arrogant, people who respond. Please ignore them.)

 

[Shibui]

There really are no hard-and-fast rules to growing trees, are there... it's just finding the right balance of the materials you use.

In biology there's rarely hard and fast rules.
As well as the correct balance of materials we also need the correct balance of care- watering, etc. I suspect you can grow good trees in almost any soil mix provided you match watering and other care to match the soil mix. We seem to get into trouble when watering on a schedule rather than what the plants need.

 

[shinmai]

While I was going through my “sorting out” period in my first years in bonsai, I tried using 8822. After sifting, I ended up with less than 40% of the bag. The fines were a boon to my father in law, whose ancient Corolla of 200,000-plus miles leaked oil with abandon.
I know that Harry Harrington has for years advocated the use of unscented cat litter, which has similar characteristics. Whether or not one agrees, the guy produces some spectacular trees.
I have simplified my life, if only in the context of bonsai, by establishing one constant: my azaleas are in kanuma, and everything else is in aoki mix. By doing so, I can rely on the consistency of the potting media and focus on water, fertilizer and sunlight exposure as the levers I can move. So far, it seems to be working. I stipulate however that this is in 5b, and my job is such that I can water as often and at what times as I see fit. I have not needed thus far to add pumice, peat, or other organic for water retention. As they used to say in the car commercials, “your mileage may vary. Title, taxes and dealer prep are extra.”

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Way to go!

Cutting down the variables is best practice.

Best
DSD serves

 

[Paradox]

I have my preference for my soil mix that works for me in my climate and my trees. Might not work for other people in other climates. So people should just read what others use in a similar situation and decide for themselves what works for them. Im tired of arguing about soil.

 

[Jrmcmich]

Doesn’t seem like too much argument at least. I do Agree that seeing what works in similar climates can help others see what might work for them