Pine training (Ryan Neil Lecture)

[YahtzeeFish]

how much does this apply to lodgepole pines?

 

[Jason_mazzy]

...............................

 

[Beng]

Pretty sure it's per candle.

 

[Jason_mazzy]

Thats how I felt about it, but when reading it something hit the HUH? button in my brain. I didn't see how that could possibly be right and I have never seen him do it on his demo's. Just getting a quick double check.

 

[cascade]

per candle

-Dorothy

 

[FrankP999]

Dario thanks for the notes. I learned a lot from Ryan on black pine.

He mentions several times the use of organic fertilizer. Does anyone know what he uses?

Thanks

 

[fh05]

he's also done red and white pine as well on you-tube. I'd much rather see one of scott's and mugho. the 26th of the month is my 1st study class with him for the year and i'll have to ask him. There are 5 in the class and he usually starts off the first half hr or so with instruction like your videos about specific trees.

I do appreciate the nice outline you created.

Any update on scots pine care? Appreciate help.

 

[Vance Wood]

Any update on scots pine care? Appreciate help.

I repot them in the Summer same as the Mugo, let's see what he says about them.

 

[Franky Bets]

When I was in Italy, I traveled to over 200 cities. Each one of them said they make the best Risotto and that, their way was the ONLY way to make it. They all tasted great!

Was a great thread. Lots of diff angles of knowledge to pull from. In the end, the camps that differ...both have great looking Bonsai

 

[Harunobu]

When I was in Italy, I traveled to over 200 cities. Each one of them said they make the best Risotto and that, their way was the ONLY way to make it. They all tasted great!

Was a great thread. Lots of diff angles of knowledge to pull from. In the end, the camps that differ...both have great looking Bonsai

Sadly, plants do not take this argument in consideration.

 

[Vance Wood]

I didn't read the article, but you didn't pay attention so I am still correct.

The pictures are all mugo. And he removes the whole 'candle' in June. Then it's not a candle anymore. Ryan said that when you prune 1 flush growth pines you have to make sure first they get more energy out of the new candle that that they put in. So that means letting them develop and extend and do their photosynthesis. Then cut them in late June.

Article says "Tip: On Mugo pines that are in their early stages off development it is a good idea to let the new candles grow a bid longer, this way there will be much energy going through this branches."

Same thing.

For candle pinching it says this:
"With candle pinching we take the first step in balancing the new growth! By pinching the candles in the strong zones in springtime by 2/3 up to 3/4 of their length"

So both say to not remove candles completely. Both say you can cut new growth in June to get backbudding. Both say to candle pinch by keeping quite a few needle pairs around.

What's the difference? I see no one saying where they say the opposite, just that they do.

The trouble I see with your quote, or with the quote itself, is the mixing of ideas and subjects.

You quoted: With candle pinching we take the first step in balancing the new growth! By pinching the candles in the strong zones in springtime by 2/3 up to 3/4 of their length"

The question is; are we, you or Ryan talking about JBP or Scots Pine or Mugo Pine. This is not a technique that should be used with either Scots or Mugo Pine, mostly because the reasons for doing so with JBP are not present in either Scots or Mugo; the balancing of vigor. This also demonstrated why I believe there are so few people that are successful with the Scots or the Mugo in America.

We tend to try and play the tree both ways and it just does not work. You have to have it in your mind that there is a difference between these trees and just because it has two needles does not mean it can be treated according to the JBP doctrine of care and training.

You can treat a Scots or a Mugo like a JBP and if you are very careful and skilled about how you repot the tree you might keep it going. Even if after years you may say that the tree really has not responded and done what you believe it should have done. Many will say the tree is too fussy and does not respond well or may say they always die or may say they never ramify well etc., everything you think a Pine should do it has not done.. What is seldom done is this: "I'm doing something wrong, I wonder what it is?"

Thank God people that grow bonsai are beginning to understand the concept of a single flush of growth and a second flush of growth and the trees that do either within the Two-Needle Pine genera. Years ago it was JBP only and if it didn't work you didn't grow it and resisted anything contrary to that principle.

 

[fh05]

I repot them in the Summer same as the Mugo, let's see what he says about them.

Yes, and not just repotting, pinching, needle thinning, bud cutting etc. Thank again

 

[pmalelis]

The trouble I see with your quote, or with the quote itself, is the mixing of ideas and subjects.

You quoted: With candle pinching we take the first step in balancing the new growth! By pinching the candles in the strong zones in springtime by 2/3 up to 3/4 of their length"

The question is; are we, you or Ryan talking about JBP or Scots Pine or Mugo Pine. This is not a technique that should be used with either Scots or Mugo Pine, mostly because the reasons for doing so with JBP are not present in either Scots or Mugo; the balancing of vigor. This also demonstrated why I believe there are so few people that are successful with the Scots or the Mugo in America.

We tend to try and play the tree both ways and it just does not work. You have to have it in your mind that there is a difference between these trees and just because it has two needles does not mean it can be treated according to the JBP doctrine of care and training.

You can treat a Scots or a Mugo like a JBP and if you are very careful and skilled about how you repot the tree you might keep it going. Even if after years you may say that the tree really has not responded and done what you believe it should have done. Many will say the tree is too fussy and does not respond well or may say they always die or may say they never ramify well etc., everything you think a Pine should do it has not done.. What is seldom done is this: "I'm doing something wrong, I wonder what it is?"

Thank God people that grow bonsai are beginning to understand the concept of a single flush of growth and a second flush of growth and the trees that do either within the Two-Needle Pine genera. Years ago it was JBP only and if it didn't work you didn't grow it and resisted anything contrary to that principle.

Vance ,Perhaps Austrian Pines fit into this category and treated as a scotts or mugo? As it is single flush? Do you have any experience with these?