Peter Warren on Soil Health.

How do you make a tea from this? Is it just water that drains out of the bucket?
By letting it rest for two days, you give sporulating bacteria and the spores of fungi enough time to germinate. They can float/suspend in water.
Letting it rest any longer could potentially starve them, or it could cause one type of organism to overgrow or outcompete the rest. It's not a compost tea whatsoever, it's an inoculant mixture.
The idea is that you produce such an organism-rich juice that there has to be something that sticks, maybe a couple thousand, maybe a couple million, maybe a couple trillion.
Once they hit your plant, they either start living there, or they don't like the conditions and die. It's a game of big numbers and should be viewed as such. A small change in environmental conditions can eradicate half of the organisms present, if not more. Nature has always been like that, but it's easier to repopulate from a rich forest floor than from a tiled back yard. That's why I've been building a rich forest floor in my back yard; after straining the bucket, it's emptied in the back yard.

General comment:
I do want people to understand that ALL of these organisms produce their own chemicals, their own antibiotics, pesticides, their own capturing molecules, peptides and enzymes. What we buy in concentrated bottles is usually derived from one of those naturally produced molecules. The border between chemical warfare and biochemical warfare is thin, very thin. Some biologists are convinced there is no difference; microbes can produce the same stuff as we can, except that we humans suck at producing chemicals compared to microbes. I quite literally have an open bag of fungus (Ganoderma Lucidum) growing in my apartment. It's a monoculture, meaning there's one single fungus growing in there. Conditions are perfect for almost any fungus to thrive in there, bacteria too! Enough food to go around. But the organism is producing so many killer-molecules that it kills everything that touches it. It's producing multiple broad spectrum antibiotics. Kind of makes me wonder what the difference is.. Where does biological end, and where does chemical begin?
I use a wide array of chemicals, but also a huge array of biologically produced materials. I've used enzymes produced by a Yellowstone bacterium, and enzymes from one that lives in the mouths of guinnea pigs, to detect cancers in dogs. I use a sugar complex found in blueberries to make it visible on a polymer gel, said polymer is produced by algae. The wolbachia family of bacteria can do some Dr. Mengele kind of stuff to insects. I got rid of a skin condition antibiotics had no effect on, by using viral particles. The more I run into this stuff, the more I'm convinced that there is little difference between chemical and biological.

@Forsoothe! I think that the fermentation process can kill off / starve most pathogens. I wouldn't want human waste to be used, but they have done it in the past with almost no ill effects. I agree it's best to separate human waste from everything else, but they didn't. That's the magic part of good fermentation, and the Japanese and Koreans are the best in the world when it comes to that field. Space yoghurt, kimchi, yakult, soy sauce, you name it.
I know a guy who is into that kind of stuff. He can take a shit, then make some kimchi without washing his hands or his vegetables, and it's perfectly safe to eat. The pathogens I've tested, are not present, or way below the acceptable threshold and probably introduced when opening. For shits and giggles we did a side-by-side test with a washed hands batch and an unwashed hands batch, and there was no difference. Bacillus is one hell of species.
 
Microbes digest oxides etc, it is the over concentration that can harm them.

Compost tea, is more of an insecticide / fungicide - NOT a fertiliser.

Compost is our only norganic and feeds the microbes.

Have never had to use an insecticide or fungicide - 40 years.

Some basic rules -

[ 1 ] Don't let the plants touch

[ 2 ] As much sun and ventilation as is sensible

[ 3 ] Mix up the types - don't let two of the same types sit next to each other

Rodale [ on-line ] reading since 84'
Good Day
Anthony

* if you intend to grow non-natives ---- study their origins and mimic
 
Bought this yesterday...seems more condusive to hydro and aeroponics culture......no added clay powders and such.My hydro shop owner wholly recommended it!!!

979A7AE5-064B-483D-B429-9BF7E49AFA78.jpeg
 
They may have used human wastes in the past, as the Koreans did up into the 1950's or so with their Honey Pots, but I don't think anyone does today. Human wastes carry human pathogens that need to be kept carefully away from humans.

I hate to break it to you, but almost every western country recycles its solid human waste into compost. Its processed by municipalities down to a very non-toxic solid waste state (basically just half rotten vegetables, poop, some dead animals probably, and whatever grows in the sewers. It is then sold by the municipality or a group of municipalities to a private company (though some municipalities just give it away to avoid disposal costs). That company composts the solid waste product into, for lack of a better term, black gold.

Once it is composted, the larger company sells it to local garden centers, landscaping companies, farmers, and other bulk buyers. From what I can find, "sewer compost" is not sold to the general public. No surprise there.
 
I hate to break it to you, but almost every western country recycles its solid human waste into compost. Its processed by municipalities down to a very non-toxic solid waste state (basically just half rotten vegetables, poop, some dead animals probably, and whatever grows in the sewers. It is then sold by the municipality or a group of municipalities to a private company (though some municipalities just give it away to avoid disposal costs). That company composts the solid waste product into, for lack of a better term, black gold.

Once it is composted, the larger company sells it to local garden centers, landscaping companies, farmers, and other bulk buyers. From what I can find, "sewer compost" is not sold to the general public. No surprise there.
Its when u get the same ‘ long lived mammals’
Fertilizing and consuming same fields over long time that it can go extremely wrong......like parasitic wrong........watch out....would not try this at home😳
 
I hate to break it to you, but almost every western country recycles its solid human waste into compost. Its processed by municipalities down to a very non-toxic solid waste state (basically just half rotten vegetables, poop, some dead animals probably, and whatever grows in the sewers. It is then sold by the municipality or a group of municipalities to a private company (though some municipalities just give it away to avoid disposal costs). That company composts the solid waste product into, for lack of a better term, black gold.

Once it is composted, the larger company sells it to local garden centers, landscaping companies, farmers, and other bulk buyers. From what I can find, "sewer compost" is not sold to the general public. No surprise there.
You are right and Milorganite is one of them produced from Milwaukee's sewage, and I should modify what I intended to say. It's one thing for a big commercial operation to preform the processes and all the testing necessary at each step to insure safety and analysis, and entirely another thing for an individual to do it like @Wise-guy-wires and his friend and @cmeg1, et al.

Those of use who are not bio-chemists are limited to understanding labels on bottles & bags, most of which are skinny on directions anyway. Even extrapolating use rates down from pounds per acre is difficult. We individually, have to use the science we individually understand. And, there's always a risk-verses-reward calculation that guides the individual. I like Warren Buffett's advice, "I don't invest in anything I don't understand". I don't use growing tricks and science that I don't have a basic understanding of.
 
Greg's friend who was a moderator here warned me off-
Miracle Gro soil mix - poop in it.

Did I mention we organically grow the vegetables here.
No pesticides etc.
Good Day
Anthony
 
Pests over-winter in the soil. Simple crop rotation puts the crop in a new place every year. Pests come out of the ground in the following year and have to find the crop before someone eats them. It works.
 
@fredman it's good to hear of your family. Sad about them vegetables.

This feller reminds me of you, he has a lot of good videos.

Sorce
 
@fredman it's good to hear of your family. Sad about them vegetables.

This feller reminds me of you, he has a lot of good videos.

Sorce
Ha Ha I learnt a lot from him. He don't sound like me at all though. He's a pure bred Aussie. I'm a imported South African in NZ...bumbling through the English language 🤪
 
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Go to the woods, take a bucket and a shovel, dig a hand full of soil from every environment, water the bucket, let it rest for 2 days.
Make a tea you sprinkle all over your plants. Free inoculum with more biodiversity than your average field.

Been doing so for a decade. I have 40+ different species of fruiting fungi in the garden soil, at least 4 edible ones like Morells. No more mildew since 2017. No need to treat against needlecast. Fungal outbreaks still happen, they spike and die down within a week.

But I have to keep the system alive, so it takes some management.

@Forsoothe! The Japanese do bokashi and they do use human waste for the rice fields, with success!

The very first internet forum from which I was banned was gardenweb.com in the bonsai section for daring to ask if anyone ever pinched off a loaf onto their trees. Circa 2001.

If "the Japanese do it", I guess I'm not so crazy after all.

Touche gardenweb.
 
In case anybody is wondering.

The class I attended explained myco will not grow when phospherous is available and provided in salt form.Roots will actually expell it for fear of pathogen.When organic phospherous is used it is important to have myco so it can do a very remarkable job of converting it for the plant.
I also learned microbes are beneficial in either salt fertilizer or organic.I think its important to suppliment the bio stimulants like aminos ,humic and fulvic acid which increase fertilizer absorption by at least 20-30% so to decrease salt to water ratio........
Even though I learned that I still started to doubt,so found this article👍😌😌😌😌😌
I do not rely on myco,but still add it with my microbes.......microbes are awesome...even nitrogen fixing and lots of other benefits.......in a completely hydro soil......straight perlite!

 
Interesting article. He says "fertilizers" don't kill microbes and I would agree with that....but to me, when is the ratio to high? At some stage the fertilizer will be to strong and turn the rhizosphere into an alien environment....Mad Max earth :oops:
Most important is the fact that when chemical fertilizer is used the plant cuts off the assimilation. In an organic situation, the roots bond with microbial life and the tree's nutrient needs are provided. Also in return the microbes/fungi is fed by the roots.
When there is ample nutrients (in the form of chemical fertilizer), the roots don't need the microbes/fungi so it breaks the bond.
That again leaves the tree defenceless against pathogens, pests and deseases.
 
As the rapper said... "Never be afraid, to elaborade".
🤙
You've made assumptions about how plants adjust to and utilize their environments and characterized those actions negatively based upon your ideal world where only "good" microorganisms win when nature is allowed to go about her business. In real life, the bad pathogen guys win as often as the good microbe guys, that's why just a teenie-tiny fraction of the species that have lived on Earth are alive today. When the good guys win, they live to fight another day. When the bad guys win, another good guy disappears, forever.
Shit happens. Applying a moral judgement to life processes is unproductive in that mankind needs to adjust the environment to our needs because the unaided growth won't feed us all, or satisfy our need for speed. We are the top of the food chain. If it wasn't us, it would be some other critter. Those who assume the moral high ground would be better served by ants and squirrels forget that mankind hasn't always been at the top of the food chain. The world is a better place than it was a hundred years ago because we try to do it better, and we are still trying, and that will never end until we end.

As to the rest of the moralizing about how mankind is a negative force ( not by you or your words, but by others), every species fights to the death to live and propagate. Every thing eats and is eaten. Every thing is territorial and kills more than they eat. There are no morally superior creatures on Earth or elsewhere. There are only temporary custodians.
 
You've made assumptions about how plants adjust to and utilize their environments and characterized those actions negatively based upon your ideal world where only "good" microorganisms win when nature is allowed to go about her business. In real life, the bad pathogen guys win as often as the good microbe guys, that's why just a teenie-tiny fraction of the species that have lived on Earth are alive today. When the good guys win, they live to fight another day. When the bad guys win, another good guy disappears, forever.
Shit happens. Applying a moral judgement to life processes is unproductive in that mankind needs to adjust the environment to our needs because the unaided growth won't feed us all, or satisfy our need for speed. We are the top of the food chain. If it wasn't us, it would be some other critter. Those who assume the moral high ground would be better served by ants and squirrels forget that mankind hasn't always been at the top of the food chain. The world is a better place than it was a hundred years ago because we try to do it better, and we are still trying, and that will never end until we end.

As to the rest of the moralizing about how mankind is a negative force ( not by you or your words, but by others), every species fights to the death to live and propagate. Every thing eats and is eaten. Every thing is territorial and kills more than they eat. There are no morally superior creatures on Earth or elsewhere. There are only temporary custodians.
What I said is not assumed. The evidence is out there. Anyone interested won't have a hard time finding it.
True, rule No 1 has always been survival of the fittest, and that will never change. I definitely did not imply that the good guys has to always win. That would be silly and uninformed to expect that. I would love mankind to try a bit harder to assist them good guys though.
Also true that we have to feed this hopelessly over populated and mostly haphazard earth....chemicals is what caused that explosion, and chemicals is also sustaining it....unfortunately. Chemicals is also the reason soooo much of the world's top soil is either washed away or/and blown into the stratosphere every year...
Doing better....UH UH I definitely don't think so....
BUT
This topic is about chemical fertilizer and soil health, and us debating a subject of 'is the world a better place', will be sending (I sense) this thread only one way...South ;)
 
Something I recently learnt about Micorrhizal fungi...even if they are in the soil around roots, it won't neccesary assimilate with that particular tree. Certain species only 'bonds' with certain trees and have to inoculated.
Found this interesting to...
IMG_20200715_131352.jpg
 
Something I recently learnt about Micorrhizal fungi...even if they are in the soil around roots, it won't neccesary assimilate with that particular tree. Certain species only 'bonds' with certain trees and have to inoculated.
Found this interesting to...
View attachment 316079
The underlined part is wha I have been finding in literature several times, and might the most important reason why "chemical" fertilizer reduces rootzone health: Myccorhizea do not germinate, and roots will simultanuously reject the relation, both under influence of P availability.
 
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