perlite with deciduous trees

[Gary McCarthy]

Anybody have issues with using perlite with deciduous trees, in particular maple trees? It's my understanding that perlite contains a small level of fluoride which can effect some deciduous trees.

I'm looking to use perlite as a replacement for pumice, unless I can finally find a source for pumice in my area and not have to pay for shipping.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

No issues reported here whatsoever. But I don't own maples, my only deciduous are beech, oak, ginkgo, cherry and wintersweet. They don't seem to mind perlite.

I don't know if official resellers would risk killing their customers plants by selling polluted/unwashed perlite.

Scientific articles suggest that flushing the soil 3-5 times would drop fluoride levels enough to prevent toxicity. In bonsai, that would take a week or so. Every watering after that, lowers the levels even more.

If you don't want to take risks, don't use it. I love perlite, but there are other materials with the same characteristics that do just as well.

 

[Wilson]

The main producer of jap maples prebonsai here, uses perlite in his mix.

 

[A. Gorilla]

If perlite is what's cheap and convenient, I can't tell a difference between that and pumice for collected deciduous. All are happy and vigorous.

But you lose a lot to sifting with the big box crap, and the dust is horribly toxic to lungs. Get yourself a respirator auto guys use for sanding if you deal with it in large volumes. Not a dust mask, one with rubber around the cheeks.

 

[BrianBay9]

I stopped using perlite just because it's so light. It blows around and gets everywhere. Pumice stays put.

 

[coh]

Anybody have issues with using perlite with deciduous trees, in particular maple trees? It's my understanding that perlite contains a small level of fluoride which can effect some deciduous trees.

I'm looking to use perlite as a replacement for pumice, unless I can finally find a source for pumice in my area and not have to pay for shipping.

What about the DE product you had (you gave me a couple of samples)? I think you got it from that place in Rochester but I can't remember the name.

Personally have used perlite as a component of "grow out" mixes (with regular potting soil or nursery mix) but have never tried it in place of pumice in a bonsai type mix.

 

[discusmike]

No issues with perlite whatsoever

 

[William N. Valavanis]

I've been using perlite for growing maples for bonsai for over 50 years. NO problem. However, once trees go into bonsai containers I use pumice/lava/akadama. The only problem is the light color and it floats to the surface. If there were something wrong with perlite, it would have shown up during my use for over a half century....

Perlite is different than pumice. It breaks down, but more important it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to get huge sizes of perlite. like the sizes of pumice.Even the coarse and super coarse size is not large enough. If you end up sifting the perlite, you will get a lot of dust.

I suggest you keep looking, pumice is great. Even if you must pay for shipping. I may be stocking it coming up in spring.

Good luck!

 

[Mike Hennigan]

I use a lot of perlite. My standard mix for the last couple years has been a mix of perlite and DE and this has worked great for all my deciduous. Most of my trees are still in developmental stages though. I would love to use pumice, but I can’t source it around here at very reasonable prices. I’ll start using pumice in my mixes for my more finished trees soon though. I never have much a problem with perlite floating or anything like that. I top dress the soil of all my trees with sphagnum moss, this helps stabilize the soil surface and keeps the perlite in place. Also if you’re using a free draining mix, which you should be, you won’t have water building up to make the perlite float.

Would be interested to know what your prices for pumice might look like Bill!

 

[Gary McCarthy]

I suggest you keep looking, pumice is great. Even if you must pay for shipping. I may be stocking it coming up in spring.

Good luck!

Thanks @William N. Valavanis

Let me know if you end up getting the pumice in bulk. I'm out by your place all the time.

 

[cmeg1]

I love large grade perlite....just bought a bag of grade 3...... averages 1/2” looks good for plastic nursery containers.
I mix 50/50 with Orchiata bark.
https://www.amazon.com/Mother-Earth..._encoding=UTF8&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_pd_title&th=1

 

[Mike Hennigan]

I love large grade perlite....just bought a bag of grade 3...... averages 1/2” looks good for plastic nursery containers.
I mix 50/50 with Orchiata bark.
https://www.amazon.com/Mother-Earth..._encoding=UTF8&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_pd_title&th=1

Yea I use a coarse grade as well, works great for me.

 

[Cable]

I used perlite in my mix last year for deciduous and evergreen. No real problems but I'm not going to use it next year just because it is too light and makes it hard to water.

 

[cmeg1]

I am even experimenting and have two grades of perlite and bark for bottom and top layers on my trees which see annual repotting.
Orchiata bark is expensive,but comes in select grades and has more substance.

 

[August44]

This outfit sells all kinds of screened and un-screened soil mixes and components and freight free. I used perilite last year but will not this year because of how light it is....washes out and blows around.

https://www.bonsaijack.com/category/bonsai-soil-components-substrate/horticulture-pumice/

 

[Mike Hennigan]

This outfit sells all kinds of screened and un-screened soil mixes and components and freight free. I used perilite last year but will not this year because of how light it is....washes out and blows around.

https://www.bonsaijack.com/category/bonsai-soil-components-substrate/horticulture-pumice/

I looked into buying from them last year, but was unsure about the particle size. I want particle size between 1/8 and 1/4. I think I emailed them and they said it is 1/4 and slightly above? I can’t really remember what they said.

Have you bought some from them already? How does the particle size break down? I admit the freight free is a big kicker. I looked into buying pumice from General Pumice Products and the shipping costs MORE than the pumice to ship to me lol.

 

[Gary McCarthy]

I looked into buying from them last year, but was unsure about the particle size. I want particle size between 1/8 and 1/4. I think I emailed them and they said it is 1/4 and slightly above? I can’t really remember what they said.

Have you bought some from them already? How does the particle size break down? I admit the freight free is a big kicker. I looked into buying pumice from General Pumice Products and the shipping costs MORE than the pumice to ship to me lol.

I've contacted bonsaijack in the past and they're pretty accommodating about shipping you the size you want. I think their web site has a 1/4" size on the pumice but they told me they could ship me 1/8" if that's what I wanted.

Are you sure about the shipping charge from General Pumice Products? I've ordered from them a couple of times and shipping was FREE.

 

[August44]

I agree with Gary...Bonsai Jack is very accommodating. He sells other soil products like pine and fir bark etc, etc also. And no, I don't work for him. Any questions, just call him at 786-262-3135. Peter

 

[TN_Jim]

I use a lot of perlite. My standard mix for the last couple years has been a mix of perlite and DE and this has worked great for all my deciduous. Most of my trees are still in developmental stages though. I would love to use pumice, but I can’t source it around here at very reasonable prices. I’ll start using pumice in my mixes for my more finished trees soon though. I never have much a problem with perlite floating or anything like that. I top dress the soil of all my trees with sphagnum moss, this helps stabilize the soil surface and keeps the perlite in place. Also if you’re using a free draining mix, which you should be, you won’t have water building up to make the perlite float.

Would be interested to know what your prices for pumice might look like Bill!

@Mike Hennigan, @A. Gorilla @William N. Valavanis, could you please you provide your current basic perlite mix ratio with regard to collected deciduous?

Also, as @Cable stated -do you apply any techniques that keep it from being buoyant/displaced, floating away, or otherwise not compacted over time -ala other component size, top moss, etc.?

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Are you sure about the shipping charge from General Pumice Products? I've ordered from them a couple of times and shipping was FREE.

Oh my bad, I meant Hess Pumice!!! General pumice products is actually what I’m leaning towards ordering. Seems like more volume for less cost than bonsai Jack too.