Custom local soil blend: slate, trap, perlite, and DE. Thoughts?

[leatherback]

Is'nt it the same in Japan ? you think Japan is a dry country?

Not sure what point you are trying to make.
I do not live in Japan. I live in Germany, at the latittude of Ottowa

If you really wanted to compare you would have to take growing season length and frost-thaw cycles into account.
My climate is quite a bit different and our growing season is A LOT shorter than most of Japan (or most of the USA for that matter). 52N is the same latitude as James Bay in Canada. Our growing season is around 6 months, compared to the 8-10 months Japan has. Our number of sunny hours is well below that of e.g. tokyo, with at times weeks without direct sun.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

lol, I WAS trying to stay out of the debate!

….I DO however know it makes a difference in the refinement stage. In fact, I have done a comparison growing a bunch of Elm seedlings in a range of substrates for a year. Results will be in a video, but in short: Akadama based blends had the shortest internodes under the same care than the other blends I compared. SO once my trees enter higher level of refinement I might jump across and start blending it in.

…..In the end, I think most people are not able to provide the care needed to get optimal results. Akadama is part of the puzzel, but not the one-stop solution to better bonsai development. There are loads of other components to tweak. I prefer to not worry too much about substrate, PH and fertilizer types. I feel those are the last 10% of the equation. ANd untill you have the other 90% pretty optimal, the difference is not going to be noticable in the trees.

Thought I might entice you with this one Jelle!

You are correct, Both Akadama and Kanuma hold water well, but also can drain easily. The water holding is so good that in our area we chock up our benches or pots during the spring and fall when the biggest Puget Sound rain events occur.

In addition quite a few of us drill the inside “corners “ of the bottoms of our pots unless the makers have already done so… to increase drainage during these times.

It’s always a mystery to me why folks beginning bonsai always gravitate towards experimenting towards media mixes. Low hanging fruit I guess… I too was drawn to the Siren call of media at first and it cost valuable thinking time away from appropriate seasonal techniques and styling…. The key areas where trees really are systematically transformed into decent bonsai.

My better half and I witness the actual scaling effect of the roots in Akadama (and resultant mirroring in the branchlets) while working for the past six years at the museum… comparing these examples to trees that haven’t used this media. (Which is why I advise choosing a common media and riding it until proven inadequate) So it will be great to see the video results of your tests!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[isid]

Not sure what point you are trying to make.
I d

it was just a question. I don't know much about the climate in japan but the few times i've been there it rained every day. So i'm surprised when i read (often) that akadama retains water for too long. For me, who's in corsica, in summer i have to put sphagnum moss on top to prevent it drying out too quickly.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

An aside, but I’m curious how exactly you carry your scissors in your pocket. I’ve learned to do so, and several bad (painful!) ways to do so.

It was a metaphor for not hacking away just because one can

… depends on the trousers , but usually just stick these in the front right pocket upside down! Rarely get bit after doing this for years.

I would also like to learn more about your process for this, especially as repotting season approaches.

… have posted recycling media (wash, heat/dry, sift, remix/refresh) a number of times, but can tell you in detail at the next meeting we are together or the next azalea class

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Joe Dupre']

Deep Sea Diver......."It’s always a mystery to me why folks beginning bonsai always gravitate towards experimenting towards media mixes." Cost is a big factor. Even so-so ready-made bonsai soil will cost you $10-$15 per gallon. Add $50 for a decent ( not top of the line ) pot plus a pre-bonsai of $75 plus tax and shipping. Your talking north of $100 out of the gate. Almost nobody wants one tree. It gets expensive very quickly.

 

[pandacular]

Japan’s rainy season is in summer. I understand Jelle’s region to be rainy in fall and winter. These seasonal differences function completely differently, as you’re no doubt aware.

 

[Paradox]

I was one of those people that tried to make my own mix using local materials because I didnt want to "pay for dirt"
I very quickly found that what I was trying to use was not ideal.
It was too water retentive, compacted and made the pots HEAVY.
My trees didnt grow roots or not many anyway.
So I caved and started buying akadama, pumice and lava and started using the common mixes of those for my trees.

My trees were much happier, grew roots and in general just seemed to look better overall
Ive never looked back since.

Every hobby takes money, unless all you want to do is collect lint.
Every hobby can get expensive if you go overboard if you choose to buy the most expensive tools, equipment, what have you
There are some tools you can substitute cheaper regular tools form but IMO soil is not something to cheap out on as it can make a huge difference.
Can it get expensive, yup it can but you can control the cost by not going nuts and buying more trees than you can sustain.

You repot a tree every 3 to 5 years and some components can be cleaned and reused (pumice and lava) to help save money in not having to buy as much in the future.
You still have to buy some as it is impossible to clean and reuse all of it.
Limiting to 5 to 10 trees and using the proper mix isn't that bad overall and honestly your trees will probably be better of in the long run over people that try to hoard 50+ trees and cant take care of them all.

 

[Paradox]

I also want to repeat what someone said about the regular common mix most of us use doesnt really work in the arid, dry, hot parts of the country.

The common A:L mix works for me and probably most of the country/world where we dont have super dry and hot conditions.
It probably wont work in Nevada or Arizona. You do need to adjust for your climate but adjusting the ratios and / or adding a more water retentive substrate to the mix

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Deep Sea Diver......."It’s always a mystery to me why folks beginning bonsai always gravitate towards experimenting towards media mixes." Cost is a big factor. Even so-so ready-made bonsai soil will cost you $10-$15 per gallon. Add $50 for a decent ( not top of the line ) pot plus a pre-bonsai of $75 plus tax and shipping. Your talking north of $100 out of the gate. Almost nobody wants one tree. It gets expensive very quickly.

This hobby can cost alot if you let it do so. But here’s the facts in our backyard.

We have over 150 trees in pots. 250 more in boxes/nursery squares and cans here. Perhaps half a dozen in “decent pots.”

We buy bonsai media by the big bag and mix it ourself. No buying by the gallon.

Most of our trees are hand grown or inexpensive nursery trees. A dozen are hand me downs. We had a discussion and can only think of a 8 trees we purchased, but agreed 10 was a good number in case we missed a couple.

After the initial outlay we haven’t spent a dollar on pumice or lava for general trees and usually use one bag of akadama a year due to recycling. The biggest outlay came when we added Biochar to the media. But this recycles pretty well to.

About the same for azalea types. The kanuma, pumice and Biochar recycle well. Most new media burn is for uppotting and adding new trees. (Note kanuma can also be reused if heated/sterilized…. Something folks don’t often do.)

We don’t pot trees “decent” pots unless a tree is in the final stages of development. (In our experience shallow pots will just slow tree development down which not helpful at all to us) So it’s boxes, nursery cans, cheap frost proof glazed and unglazed training pots and many many Tokaname training pots.

(Not saying we haven’t got a lot of nice pots the kids sent for presents )

So you are right bonsai isn’t necessarily cheap, but can be done well without a huge outlay, unless one wants to “buy” into the hobby with awesome trees from the get go.

But then again, we have both used the same giving regulators for over 50 years. (It’s just starting to get broken in after over 2300 divers!)

Best wishes to you and yours
DSD sends

 

[pandacular]

So you are right bonsai isn’t necessarily cheap, but can be done well without a huge outlay, unless one wants to “buy” into the hobby with awesome trees from the get go.

I very distinctly remember chatting with a gentleman from Connecticut at the last Portland Shohin Seminar who said to me “there is a cheap and expensive way to do bonsai; I have chose the latter but fully support the former.”

 

[Gabler]

I'll see if I can summarize the consensus here:

Akadama has magical properties that haven't been replicated by soils from anywhere else in the world. If you can afford it, there's no reason to use anything else, except to mix in pumice and/or lava for improved drainage.

If you're poor, you can still do bonsai the cheap by substituting expanded slate or perlite for pumice and substituting pine bark, coconut coir, and/or 8822 for akadama.

Does that sound about right?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Pretty funny. Your tongue must be firmly in your cheek at this moment.

Magical properties?

Akadama is merely a certain type of metamorphosed volcanic lava formed over a layer of kanuma. Likely to be found in other places around the world, but solely mined and processed in Japan at this time. The one place a geologist study identified as a likely source for akadama (possibly kanuma too) is in Oregon. Apparently economics and maybe property rights is stopping further development there.

Here’s an alternate reality, including those non obvious undercurrents.

Akadama is best used when trees are in the final stage of secondary development and into ramification. Akadama is known to develop short internodes and scales the rootlets. Avoid repeated freezing of both Akadama and Kanuma media.

Avoid experimenting with media when one is new to bonsai

Plenty good draining media materials can be used prior to switching to a ‘ramification media’. Be advised each component has its strengths and weaknesses. When it doubt use commonly recommended mixes and avoid changing the mix unless near ramification or the media proves to be deficient.

Be sure one understands the strengths and weaknesses of each component in the media.

One does not have to be wealthy to pursue bonsai.

Hobbyist should strongly consider recycling inorganic media materials, including akadama and kanuma whenever possible. It is doable, as well as, cost and environmentally efficient.

Concentrate one’s efforts on learning appropriate seasonal techniques and styling for trees in one’s collection vs on media.

Prime Directive: Hobbyists should be warned media wars never, ever, turn out well. Everyone has their own steadfast opinion of what works best for their trees. Many are prepared to battle to the death defending same. Instead study up on seasonal techniques and styling, or bake (type left unspecified) lots of cookies for your friends.

Donate to BonsaiNut to keep our platform going. It’s not free.

Cheers
DSD sends