jk_lewis
Masterpiece
And oh, so humble, too, especially when he's writing with his thumbs and ignoring capitalization..
nontraditional and postmodern bonsai
- Thread starter tantric
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And oh, so humble, too, especially when he's writing with his thumbs and ignoring capitalization..
tantric
Yamadori
as a matter of fact, i do not text or type with my thumbs - samuel l jackson says it better than me, though it's NSFW, in Boondocks on texting.
as for being humble - let's start with wikipedia:
"True humility" is distinctly different from "false humility" which consists of deprecating one's own sanctity, gifts, talents, and accomplishments for the sake of receiving praise or adulation from others, as personified by the fictional character Uriah Heep created by Charles Dickens. In this context legitimate humility comprises the following behaviors and attitudes:
- Submitting to God and legitimate authority
- Recognizing virtues and talents that others possess, particularly those that surpass one's own, and giving due honor and, when required, obedience
- Recognizing the limits of one's talents, ability, or authority; and, not reaching for what is beyond one's grasp
i don't submit to god, being an atheist, but only to those people who have earned my respect by being a better person than me, or by surviving trials that i could not, or in a better way than i could. when i get to look at your trees, i will offer my compliments and respect as is due to your accomplishments - here that means 'like', i suppose. as for my limits, as i've said, my plans are pretty modest - i want to create a few blueberry bonsai for sale, which will be very traditional and in ebay pots, because that's what people buy, and a few more for me. some of those will be keepsakes from trees i will regrettably be forced to remove and a few more i hope to grow of trees that have special spiritual significance for me, none of which will be for sale. and a roots-over-ruins for a terrarium i have in mind, which i won't even start for years to come. none of that is beyond my grasp. now i admit i have a problem with authority and that i'm rebellious by nature or, as my people say, just plain cussed (kuhs-ED, not KUHS'd, it's a southern thang). i'm working on that, but i doubt you'd enjoy hearing my therapy plans (which involve BDSM). OTOH i have no interest in or need for the adulation or praise of a bunch of random goobers from the internet. or from anywhere, for that matter. many people take this as arrogance - and that's fine. i know my gifts and talents. i can tell you my GRE score - 1540 out of 1600, with 750/800 in verbal, 99+%, so i ain't sweatin' your grammar nazi crap. i know i have a green thumb - last week i transplanted poppy seedlings, which is said to be impossible, with a good 75% survival rate (let the soil dry as much as you can without wilting, unearth the 1cm seedlings with their 3cm taproots intact, one by one with forceps and lower them into holes by the roots. water each one with drops of water, then mist the whole. cover with plastic wrap for the first three days. it takes care, patience, attention to detail, research and a deep love for the plants themselves). i know i can write - i have a book on Bantu mythology coming out next year. i know my social IQ is about on par with that of a brain damaged baboon. i know i'm absentminded to the point of disability - more than once i've driven to work due to rain and then walked home, forgetting my car. what exactly do y'all want? when i make mistakes on internet forums, i *apologize*. how many of you have done that? or do you just not make mistakes? if you care to, quote me and point out my failings - i *need* that, but it must be rational and not a series of mindless personal attacks. if i've done wrong, i'll fix it and if i can't fix it, i'll learn from it. did the bonsaiasaurus apologize for threadcrapping? no, he justified it with another personal attack, which, btw, i expected, knowing full and well as soon as i identified what he did as threadcrapping that he would respond by calling my thread crap. i found no legitimate points in his attacks - nothing. nor in any of the other ad hominem nonsense y'all have come up with. if you want a rational debate over my points about tradition, we can do that, but i'm not going to play socrates for the peanut gallery. start a new thread, and i'll be there. until then, じゃまた.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
You are certainly very good at digging holes.
I wonder if anyone will actually read that entire run on paragraph. I certainly won't. But I can say with a fair amount of certainty that you're the first person to post their GRE scores on the forum. Bravo! Knowing those scores changes everything.
I wonder if anyone will actually read that entire run on paragraph. I certainly won't. But I can say with a fair amount of certainty that you're the first person to post their GRE scores on the forum. Bravo! Knowing those scores changes everything.
tantric
Yamadori
well, apparently i'm supposed to be impressed by post counts - which is better? that came up earlier, and i was judged by that standard. it's all penis measurement - but my standard matters. post counts, especially when useless threadcrapping is part of it, show nothing. you may not have read all it, but somehow you felt compelled to comment anyway - on something that you admittedly have no knowledge of. pure insult, pure ad hominem. i'm not denying i'm an asshole, i know that and own it. but what did your reply demonstrate? my points stand.
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coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Which standard are you referring to? GRE scores? They're about as relevant as post counts when it comes to doing bonsai.
Keep trying, one of these days you may actually make a point.
tantric
Yamadori
GRE scores show my ability to use the english language, which has been attacked several times based on my nonstandard style of writing and punctuation. my relevant experience for bonsai would be the BA in japanese and asian lit, with a focus on classical japanese poetry, and three years of phd work in ecology. also, the green thumb i mentioned - the example being how i managed to transplant poppy seedlings by attention to detail and care, along with 20 years of aquarium design in the style of amano takahashi. it has been explained to me, repeatedly, that none of that matters. my BA and being a zen buddhist most of my life, living and breathing zen, using classical japanese aesthetics as the basis of my own understanding of beauty do not in any way qualify me to judge bonsai or things related to it. my appreciation of wabi-sabi is useless and even laughable. the only way to understand bonsai, as i've been told, is to look at what has been done by those on this forum with a high post count and then spend years imitating that. when i have done that, then and only then can my opinion be heard, though it will still be ignored if i deviate from the norm.
i readily admit to knowing nothing of the skills involved in training trees other than what i've read in books and i'm prepared to spend the necessary years learning those skills. i have a detailed but modest plan in place, during which i will systematically attempt the major historical styles, though admitted with a limited subject matter (blueberries) and i've started on that, with a mild success. on the other hand, to me the aesthetics and philosophies that created the classic traditions in bonsai are not dead and fossilized.
it seems obvious to me that any art form based on a zen aesthetic cannot simply imitate the past. in doing so the principles of wabi-sabi are lost. what was simple, base and without pretense in Heian japan isn't so in the modern world. beyond which, 脱俗 - datsu=remove, escape, be rid of + zoku=vulgar, customary, worldly and mundane, cannot be accomplished by following custom. that doesn't mean abandoning custom, just not being bound by it. thus after i've learned the basic techniques, i intend to work from my heart. i will find wabi-sabi in the world around me, living, breathing zen, not Zen(TM). i know i won't win any awards, nor will my advanced projects make money, which is fine as my art isn't for sale. i might give it away, but the point isn't profit, it's personal expression. i want to explore the art of Hitomaro, Dōgen Zenji, Noguchi Isamu and Marcel Duchamp.
the thing is, i never expected this to be controversial, especially on a forum devoted to bonsai. go figure.
ColinFraser
Masterpiece
I think this thread is prime for some deepity . . .
"Experiential truth self interacts with unparalleled marvel"
http://www.wisdomofchopra.com
"Experiential truth self interacts with unparalleled marvel"
http://www.wisdomofchopra.com
jk_lewis
Masterpiece
Wow! Nonstandard writing today and nonstandard bonsai tomorrow. You're just a non-standard guy. But at 42 you'd think you'd have acquired a modicum of standardization by now. One wonders how you managed in this very standardized world.
But, this discussion is too much like spitting into the wind. I think my contribution to the breeze is done.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
OK, who farted? Hey Tantric, ever wonder why there aren't any Japanese posting here? Perhaps because (aside from the language thing) we're really NOT all that concerned with Japanese esthetics. They certainly inform our work, but Western bonsaiists come at the art from many different angles, the Japanese angle being only one. Some of use come to bonsai from a Western perspective and are drawn to it because we are basically rednecks who grew up loving the outdoors. Some of us aren't all that impressed with BAs, multi-lingual prodigies who have a lot of aquaria.
We aren't imitating the past. If you understood bonsai in Japan, you'd understand it is dying there and growing here in the West. Western native species from the U.S. are becoming extremely common. Along with those species' increasing use as bonsai, comes a more western and modern sensibility, driven not only by some of us bonsai rednecks, but because the trees we're using sometimes don't take to strict Japanese horticultural or esthetic practices.
Here's a quiz, why is this tree NOT traditional? Why aren't more oaks used as material in Japanese bonsai? What horticultural differences with this species make implementing strict Japanese esthetics on it impractical?
We aren't imitating the past. If you understood bonsai in Japan, you'd understand it is dying there and growing here in the West. Western native species from the U.S. are becoming extremely common. Along with those species' increasing use as bonsai, comes a more western and modern sensibility, driven not only by some of us bonsai rednecks, but because the trees we're using sometimes don't take to strict Japanese horticultural or esthetic practices.
Here's a quiz, why is this tree NOT traditional? Why aren't more oaks used as material in Japanese bonsai? What horticultural differences with this species make implementing strict Japanese esthetics on it impractical?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I can't comment without making someone mad because there are two things involved: Truth is subjective and Opinion is---- opinion. Put both together and try to make opinion a universal truth you get into trouble. So here is my opinion: Unless practice and production of quality work is accompanied by conversation, then all of this art talk is nothing more than the ramblings of those who cannot produce a decent bonsai. In the past the niche these people would occupy was filled with those who used the Ubiquitous American Bonsai title to hid really awful bonsai behind. Finding a way to justify Crapola Puro as avant garde bonsai we are asked to accept this on artistic grounds only. In the end and history will prove true a turd is still a turd.
thumblessprimate1
Masterpiece
I'm sensitive.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Actually, GRE (supposedly) measures "your ability to understand and analyze written material through the use of sentence completion and reading comprehension questions" (taken directly from the website). That's not quite the same as putting your own thoughts together in a logical, coherent and readable manner. I know many people who have outstanding abilities to read/understand complex material, but who have great difficulty writing clear, understandable text of their own.
You seem to have taken it a step further, believing that because of your outstanding scores, fancy education, etc, you can get away with being a lazy writer...skipping capitalization and writing in a stream of consciousness form without punctuation, paragraphs, etc. You call it "nonstandard", I call it lazy and inconsiderate. Of course, you can continue on as you like, but I suspect few are going to bother to fight through your "nonstandard" style to find out if you actually have anything of value to say.
By the way, I could list my GRE scores (which are similar to yours), all my academic accomplishments and advanced degrees, published scientific papers...but it is of absolutely no relevance to bonsai.
As for the rest of the stuff you have been posting about...I have little interest. I'm not Japanese, I don't understand the intricacies of their culture, and at this time have no interest in the details. My suggestion, though, for what it's worth...if you want to be taken seriously here, change the way you present yourself. I think you've turned a lot of people off in a hurry.
Anyway...I've also spent far too much time with this. Good luck going forward.
Giga
Masterpiece
I think a better approach, wouldn't be to throwing your opinions and beliefs(whether they're right or wrong) down peoples throats, but keep an open mind about how vast and wonderful nature and the world is. The older I get I realize, the less I know. I "feel" that bonsai is something you learn and enjoy till the day your unable to do it, whether you conform to one style or another-they are all great and take from each what works for you and your style.
It's kinda like this-Say Christians or the like come to your door and try and smush what they believe on you! not so fun or inviting in any way, at least to me. BUT what if your natural curiosity and drive pushes into that direction? Then that's a whole different ball game-Bonsai is much the same way-there's one thing from learning from a master, the technics and proper way to keep a bonsai alive and thriving,but pushing what drove that person to bonsai is a different ball game all together.
And that's my contribution to this thread other then a bowl of popcorn lol
It's kinda like this-Say Christians or the like come to your door and try and smush what they believe on you! not so fun or inviting in any way, at least to me. BUT what if your natural curiosity and drive pushes into that direction? Then that's a whole different ball game-Bonsai is much the same way-there's one thing from learning from a master, the technics and proper way to keep a bonsai alive and thriving,but pushing what drove that person to bonsai is a different ball game all together.
And that's my contribution to this thread other then a bowl of popcorn lol
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
"GRE scores show my ability to use the english language, which has been attacked several times based on my nonstandard style of writing and punctuation. my relevant experience for bonsai would be the BA in japanese and asian lit, with a focus on classical japanese poetry, and three years of phd work in ecology"
So, you're basically unemployed...? No crime, been there many times myself as a professional writer.
So, you're basically unemployed...? No crime, been there many times myself as a professional writer.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Ugh! That brings back some unpleasant, though admittedly very foggy, memories. Busch beer, almost as good as Budweiser (or is it the other way around). It's quite possible that at some point I consumed the equivalent of 30 cans in 24 hours but fortunately the side effect of doing that is that you don't really remember it.
My GRE's would have been taken about 31 years ago. Man, does time fly! Wish I'd started doing bonsai at the same time.
Chris
tantric
Yamadori
this very standardized world locked my ass up for two years. in the process there were a few episodes of actual torture and brutal dehumanization. the odd bit is that my crime was frightening a police officer during my attempt at suicide. i had just had to put down my ferret, my weird weasel soul mate, Ahimsa Dharma (i'll meet you in the bardo babe, try not to annoy the bodhisattvas too much). and i mean that i had to do it, personally, with a shot of ativan and morphine. it broke me - something in me just turned off, and i went and got my insulin and injected two vials, along with the rest of the bottle of ativan. after half an hour, i remembered something about pills being for women, and how men use guns. so i went and got a .22 rifle, but my bloodsugar by then was below 40. i went out side and tried, only to discover that you can't shoot yourself with a .22 - the barrel is too long, you have to pull the trigger with your toe - who knew? so i tried and shot the rifle up into the air. when i looked up, there was a man there, so i handed him the gun and asked him to reload it for me. instead he retreated and two of his buddies tazed me. i spent some time in the ICU, then the police took me and stripped me and hosed me down, then put me in a padded nylon one-piece. they move me to a 5x5 cell with rubber walls and a hole in the floor to piss in, no other furnishings. the lights never went out and i had to beg them to left me out to defecate, and then they laughed at me. i slept on the floor and had to stand up every hour to be 'counted'. after three days they put another person in the cell, so the counting bit made a bit more sense. i was in there for five days, no phone call, my family thought i was dead somewhere.
when i made it to genpop in the county jail, i learned i'd been charged with assaulting the four cops who, well, assaulted me. because the charge involve a 'peace officer' the DA convinced the judge to permanently deny me bail. i sat there for 1.25 yrs. i couldn't talk to my lawyer - his phone wouldn't take collect calls and he never answered my letters. i saw him once, when he explained the charges, then again at the 1.25yr mark when the DA offered me a plea bargain: spend another .75yrs in real prison and go home a felon, or wait in the county jail with no chance of bail for 3 more years to get a jury trial, which i would only win if the cops defied the DA. i took the deal.
so the euroamerican gay buddhist intellectual went to a maximum security prison. note - the tv show Oz is fairly accurate, minus the hot christopher meloni bf bit. i managed to get into the work dorm, where i made the green and white street signs you see on every corner, working in a slave factory in south georgia. then i got out, and here i am.
irony? in the mid 90's i was one of those awful rave monkeys with the cat-in-the-hat hats and i ran a nonprofit MDMA lab, just giving the stuff to my friends so they wouldn't get poisoned with street drugs. i considered it doing my part in the war on some drugs (which is a war of terror and oppression conducted by the government against its own citizens). eventually i got busted....but i got off on an invalid search warrant (yeah, they gave me bail then, too).
funny thing - i flat got away with standing up and spitting in the eye of evil (which you might call conformity). it was when i gave up and stopped fighting that the men in blue took me and tortured me, throwing me in an environment that should have killed me. still, my first year out of prison, i hid - i didn't want anyone to ever notice me again. i sat in my father's basement and molded like a potato. then i realized a few things. for one, prison made me a better man. i know things about respect, loyalty and friendship that most people can't imagine and i know them deeply, intuitively - the kind of learning you get when you know if you mess up, the result will be immediate gross physical violence. i learned that if i live by my beliefs, and live righteously, that i can survive and even prosper in places that would destroy most of you - i saw it happen to other people. i learned that my religion *works*. i learned that as a self-confident gay man, i may like receptive anal sex occasionally, but despite that, i'm nobody's bitch. and i *know* that i don't break.
so yes, i'm having some difficulty reintegrating into mainstream society. see, prison restored my faith in the essential goodness of humanity - it was this crap here that wore it down. i'm having issues making friends because most people outside are skeeving, lying, hateful, manipulative *punks* - and i just don't have time for it. i went through some *hard* shit, and i overcame it, learned from it and used it to better myself. i'm not interested in giving that up to fit in with or gain the approval of people that to me are non-starters, people that i know from how they act, speak and present themselves will collapse and punk out the instant shit gets real. so there it is, you no longer have to wonder how i managed in this very standardized world - simple, really, i kick ass and take names while walking the path of the lord Buddha. and i love my life - i know where joy comes from and how to cultivate it. everyday i have moments of bliss where i'm overcome with gratitude just to be alive. peace, y'all.
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
uh, Ok.....
ColinFraser
Masterpiece
Have you found your myth? If you have never experienced this osmosis devoid of self, it can be difficult to grow. How should you navigate this advanced cosmos?
The grid is calling to you via morphogenetic fields. Can you hear it? It can be difficult to know where to begin. Lifeform, look within and bless yourself.
Without health, one cannot believe. We can no longer afford to live with discontinuity. Stagnation is the antithesis of interconnectedness.
You will soon be guided by a power deep within yourself — a power that is Vedic, self-aware.
Reality has always been full of travellers whose bodies are enveloped in truth. Our conversations with other dreamers have led to an evolving of hyper-authentic consciousness. Humankind has nothing to lose.
Soon there will be an evolving of flow the likes of which the infinite has never seen. We are being called to explore the cosmos itself as an interface between truth and wellbeing. Eons from now, we messengers will vibrate like never before as we are recreated by the grid
-courtesy of the New Age BS Generator: http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/
tantric
Yamadori
yes, you can read it here: history of the ohsaycanyousea people, extinct aboriginal pygmies of north america.
it's called a k-hole, dude, been there, done that - you swim with the jellyfish angels - but DON'T GO INTO THE LIGHT, CAROL-ANN
yes, the carrier wave - i hear it all the time.
right, tell that to my diabetic neuropathy. but yes, i've been an agent of Coincidence Control Central for twenty years.
the noosphere of Teilhard de Chardin, the jesuit palaeontologist who predict that humanity would evolve into god, a Gaian world mind. i've united his theory with dual inheritance theory, but you're not cleared to know that. Fnord. humanity has *everything to lose* as exemplified by god's final message to his creation, with apologies to douglas adams, who got it wrong. it should read: GROW UP OR DIE. FIX YOUR OWN MESS OR DROWN IN YOUR OWN SHIT.
it ain't gone take eons, buddy, i've already seen the trailers. and how sad - you need a computer program to generate that for you? thinking it would mess with me or some such? pshaw. i live this stuff, science fiction in the streets. and i can do hard science - epidemiology and ecology are math based. cognitive dissonance is like a fine wine for the advanced consciousness.
well, that was a waste of time, but i find weird to be pretty effortless. comforting, even. it's just too bad he didn't originate that babble, i love that crap. had a nuwabian cell mate for a while, even
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