Need suggestions for this juniper

[Docbonsai]

I did some preliminary cleaning of this juniper today. I plan to make the branch with the red arrow a sacrificial branch and it’s there right now only to provide more foliage and thicken the base of the trunk.
My question is this: How would I approach the area in the yellow circle? I’d like to create a nice crown, or make the tree as interesting as possible. Suggestions?

 

[Japonicus]

Sure, post several angles including from the top, at least 4 sides of the juniper

 

[Docbonsai]

Sure, post several angles including from the top, at least 4 sides of the juniper

Ok. Will do as soon as I can. Thanks.

 

[Shibui]

The area in the yellow circle will almost certainly be removed completely. The current trunk is way too long for its thickness and very little visible taper. The best way to deal with that is to chop and regrow the apex from another side branch.
IMHO one of the lower branches will be the best option to continue the lower trunk.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Agreed...it needs to be shortened. That will make the trunk proportionally thicker.

 

[Tieball]

Just me. And my thinking. I get stuck when looking at the photo....That moon shaped stalk in an open area is to much with nothing breaking it up. I highlighted it with a blue moon line. The tree shape is a near perfect backwards s-shape. Perhaps it looks better or less distracting when the tree is rotated to a different viewing point. Building the crown you show in yellow may build a wide separation, a gap, between the ground area of the tree and that crown. I would grow the tree, like you’re thinking, to thicken it up, create stronger branches, and then I would likely chop much lower to eliminate the half moon circular shape....and develop a new tree image.

While growing, a new angle of best-view may develop....different than what you see today. The tree looks young yet and some thickening growth will help with maturity. I’d work to grow out the entire lower part below the moon shape....I think there is an excellent tree developing in that lower area. So, I would not be to quick to define a branch as a sacrifice branch yet....it might be very useful in building the tree lower. From that lower point I would, over time, begin building a suitable crown...if a defined crown is needed. It may just be the view shown in the photo, however, I try to eliminate such problems presented to my eyes so a tree has a better appearance all the way around so I don’t have to turn it just to avoid a particular place.
That’s just my thoughts. I think the real tree is below my blue marker line On your photo.

 

[Docbonsai]

Here are photos all around the tree to hopefully show the branch structure.

 

[Japonicus]

@Tieball is absolutely correct and where I was going when I suggested more photo angles.

I would grow the tree, like you’re thinking, to thicken it up, create stronger branches, and then I would likely chop much lower

Exactly, keep the plant as you see it now, but begin developing the lower part next year rather the year after you repot it.
It would be good to leave it alone now, and let it get as much growth as possible, pot it up in a grow box, Anderson flat
or pond basket next late March in your area just before it needs watering.

Keeping as much foliage as possible prior to potting up will help it recover from its first potting up to bonsai soil
or at any other time in its future. Resist pinching off or removing any growth tips as this is where the most energy comes from.
So it's not going to look like a bonsai for 3 years minimum, then you're going to repot it again, getting more nursery soil
out of the crown, not all in one potting.

Unfortunately, we can't pick a front to work with yet at this point. You may, but without having it in hand or work done on nebari yet
finding a front can be elusive, even with bonsai material.

Once grown out, and you're satisfied with the girth (procumbens typically remain slender once potted up, or more often than not
even in the ground) I would remove higher than what Tieball recommended just in case it worked for a jin feature
but if not, agreed the lower portion is where the bonsai will be.

One thing to keep in mind, if a lower branch to be, is thinner than a branch above, you'll need to let
the lower one run, and keep the growth in check on the higher thicker one while it's growing out.
Love your hometown man! We vacation in Navarre Bc and have been out to Ft Pickens there in Pensacola
Hwy 399 between Navarre and Pensacola is my favourite drive when it isn't closed due to hurricane damage

 

[Docbonsai]

Thank you so much for all this information! I was also wondering about a Jin up higher at some point.
Should I straighten the lower curve below the yellow circle and make it more vertical in preparation for that someday?
I wired the lowest branch to raise it up out of the nursery pot so it gets maximum sunlight for the time being. I’ll have to get a mesh pot to let it grow next year.

Oh, and I also love that drive! I wish I had a bridge to be able to get there....Maybe in May or June I hope...

 

[sorce]

All we really need is a good picture of the first 6 inches.

Without it, I assume you are not concerned with the look of that part and the base and are set on this tall slender ordeal.

So I propose layering it just below or around the bottom of the moon to still provide you with a tall slender ordeal, which can be styled exactly the same as what you wanted this whole tree to be, but you get to keep everything below it, all the "pro stuff", that you're hiding from us, to work later when your eye turns "pro".

Hope that doesn't sound mean, it's just "matter of fact", mostly because of this...

photos all around the tree to hopefully show the branch structure.

It could be just semantics, but I hear "branch structure" as ,"I'm going to make these my branches", not, "these are the branches on this shrub I found".

So I feel you're looking at this with a "newb" eye for potential.
Sometimes stuff like that gets ruined quick.

This seems full of potential, which means it has great potential to be ruined.

Plenty of options.

None currently need anything cut off, try to get it in a better soil situation first.

Sorce

 

[Shibui]

I also agree with @Tieball and @Japonicus
The tree (for now) is in that lower section for trunk taper and for perspective. The trunk will not actually BE thicker when the top is chopped but it will LOOK much thicker when the tree is shorter.

An alternative is to leave that top on as an additional sacrifice branch. In another 5-10 years the lower trunk will be thick enough to make a more impressive bonsai but I guess you will want something quicker so you will need to be satisfied with a less impressive trunk.
By all means leave some of the upper trunk to convert to Jin. Hard to say which direction to have it or what shape because I cannot see the real shape of the lower trunk. Any deadwood must complement the trunk and branches instead of drawing attention away from your design. I would set the basics of the tree before deciding where to set jins.

 

[Docbonsai]

I see now where everyone is going with this. Here are better pictures of the first 6 inches. My questions are not intended to be “quicker”-I’m only asking as a newbie trying to understand what might be in store for the tree in the future and to plan ahead.

 

[Japonicus]

I see now where everyone is going with this. Here are better pictures of the first 6 inches. My questions are not intended to be “quicker”-I’m only asking as a newbie trying to understand what might be in store for the tree in the future and to plan ahead.

Dialing in the important areas now...better. As I said this is a timeline sort of thing depending on vigorousness prior to working.

Plan A is following your current lead or presentation.
Cut around the top red line the year after potting up if vigorous, if not wait.
However I've had excellent gains from hard July cut backs in nursery soil on juniper, then potting up the following year too.

White line is an idea, or guestimate, of area for a jin for plan A.

Plan B however compacts this all the more with immediate movement out of the soil if possible, using what is between
the lower blue and red lines as the tree to be. Well foliage wise, of course keeping the trunk. Then the jin are changes
drastically. This plan B may not be an option. You won't know until you pot it up and expose the nebari.
If plenty deep the nebari, this may work. If shallow it may not. If not, plan A and removing this below the lower red line
a few years out, keeping for girth and strength in the meantime.

Not sure what the lowest wire we see in this picture is doing, whether on a branch or securing the plant to the pot.
Please watch this area, it will bite in and leave scarring when girth is put on. The wire size needs some help.
#8 annealed copper wire coiled at 60º (not so tight an angle) next time will be much more beneficial here.
Above the wire could be same size in copper or larger aluminum. Looks like 2 and 2.5 mm on the rest.
Again a little wider degree coiling next time. Under sized wire causes you to over work a branch to set it, if it will.

 

[Japonicus]

Using Tieballs arrow here may be the plan B above. I've lost my orientation,
but that wire appears to be securing the plant to the pot. This needs to change to wiring it out (the branch).
You can cut a wires end at 45º and thrust it through the root ball to secure it through the pot.
3mm aluminum, coat rack whatever. If it hangs up repeatedly, try another location or drill partially
through and retry. You can bring the ends of the wire around the pot in a D shape to secure to pot.
EDIT: ...or you may just be able to cut the wire atop that branch, pass the ends through below the branch
and twist together with pliers till secure. Pull the ends out as you twist to prevent premature breaking.
This would be more inconspicuous.

The wire will cut into the top of this branch at the crotch and disfigure it.
Is this the case @Docbonsai ??? If so changing it sooner than later will help you out some.

 

[Docbonsai]

That wire is actually down in the root ball and elevating the lowest branch above the level of the side of the nursery pot.

 

[Docbonsai]

I appreciate all the time and advice I’m getting from everyone. I was wondering if there’s a way to post a short video on the forum to give a better picture of the current structure of the tree? That might make things clearer. It’s much easier to see on a video than a bunch of static stills.

 

[Docbonsai]

Btw, for the time being since it’s late, I loosened the wire on the lower branch and I’ll fix it when it’s light out.

 

[Japonicus]

Btw, for the time being since it’s late, I loosened the wire on the lower branch and I’ll fix it when it’s light out.

It is probably fine. I would leave it as is this go around since it is not a securing wire.
Generally once a branch is wired, unwiring and re wiring can damage the cambium even kill the branch.
Videos can be posted via linking the address but for now you’re pretty much just going to feed and water.

 

[Tieball]

I did some preliminary cleaning of this juniper today. I plan to make the branch with the red arrow a sacrificial branch and it’s there right now only to provide more foliage and thicken the base of the trunk.
My question is this: How would I approach the area in the yellow circle? I’d like to create a nice crown, or make the tree as interesting as possible. Suggestions?

Something different could be possible. If you wanted to use that curved bend in the tree. Just more thinking as I saw the attached from several years back here on the Bonsainut site. The attachment here has a similar characteristic, maybe not exactly the same as yours, but enough similarity to fuel “what if” thinking. It uses a curve on the trunk that is by itself nothing special...but when combined with the foliage clump and the pot it works. It's just a thought you can consider as you look over your tree in person. This would utilize the crown location that started this conversation along with the curve your tree has grown. I cannot see what your actual tree base trunk looks like though. I saw this....made me think of your tree.

 

[Docbonsai]

Thanks for your suggestion. I think for now I’ll let it grow and do something more traditional when the time comes. But I’m starting to see the possibilities, so thank you again!