Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Ah man Ed, if only you were willing to lose the tail. I see a nice little upright in there:
(Don't bite my head off)
(Don't bite my head off)
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Cascade juniper, need suggestions!
- Thread starter edprocoat
- Start date
edprocoat
Masterpiece
Ryan, why would I bite your head off at least you offered an honest viewpoint. The last post I responded to mentioned an non existent challenge ? What the hell was that even about. I like it as a cascade myself, the way its supposed to be viewed the tail as you call it sets off towards the back and left slightly. In person it looks pretty nice IMO.
ed
ed
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Hey, as long as you like it that's all that matters. That's one of the first things I learned. Style the tree to your liking and don't listen to what others say
HotAction
Chumono
The motto of mediocrity.
Brave men once sailed out into the great blue. We put men on the moon. If we don't strive for greatness, complacency shall be our demise.
Dave
edprocoat
Masterpiece
What a clown ! Man I am a contractor with a successful business, I have kept Bonsai since a kid. I do not do it for some sense of greatness, as for me I see greatness in the fact a seed can germinate. I have no delusions of grandeur that I will ever become a Bonsai master or show plants in a venue, I would not care to take the pay cut.
HotAction the way you deride every plant you comment on in every thread I have posted in makes me think you have some agenda against me. I wish you well with your Larch #5, will the large scars where you chopped off the branches heal? Hows your boxwood doing? Good luck man, and if you can be no more than insulting then you are a sad little man.ed
quietbridge
Seedling
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so ed...sure sounds like excuses to me...if you don't want your trees to get better why bother even posting them???
I was just wondering...is this you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPVaAXgRoKk
I was just wondering...is this you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPVaAXgRoKk
edprocoat
Masterpiece
No I do not go on youtube lol. I did not bother to connect to your link as I don't post there. I must say quietbridge you seem to have a problem with comprehension of what you read, I understand that people can be rushed through the school system and either not properly learn the english language or have no mastery of it, so here to help you is the definition of excuse,
ex·cuse/ikˈskyo͞oz/
Verb:
Attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify.
Noun:
A reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense.
I never posted anywhere that I did not want my trees to get any better, are you nuts? If you bothered to even follow this thread from the beginning you would see this tree has indeed became much "better" than when I first bought it, it was 1. mostly dead with just a few sprigs of green on it . 2. In a 3 gallon nursery pot. 3. Its roots being eaten by ants. 4. It had four branches cascading out like a cross then a dead section above that. I made it "better" by, 1. nursing it back to health. 2. Forming it into a style and size that I wanted. 3. Successfully removing 80 % of the root mass that filled the pot and worked it down over a 3 year period eventually removing a total of about 95 % of the original root mass and fitting it into a palm sized pot that it not only has lived in, it has thrived in it.
You would also see in this thread that I have been told it was going to die from my " defoliating " that I needed to " leave it alone for at least three years " so it would be able to grow and nonsense such as the pot that I made from a bowl would not allow the plant to " grip " the sides of the pot, weird thing about the last one was that pot was blown almost 10 feet in straight line winds this spring and not only did the plant not come out , the bowl everyone hated so did not bust like other Bonsai specific pots I own did.
Hell, all I asked about was whether I should have cut the upright part off, now that I decided I like it, its staying. I appreciate those who have constructive suggestions such as Redwood Ryan, and I agree it would make a nice little upright, and if this tree does not walk away or get smashed during moving it may be an upright in 1-10 years, who knows, but I enjoy it as it right now. Honestly though Quietbridge, those who post little childish digs and ill informed remarks like yours and the one I responded to earlier makes me wonder why you bother to post at all.
On that point, I post my trees as I am proud of them and want to share them, or as in this and other threads I have posted here, because I am looking for suggestions, I have posted quite a few posts here as I am very verbose, sorry you can look that one up yourself, but, you will not find one post by me that in it I just intended to belittle or insult any person unless I was first treated that way, and thats not an " excuse "
ed
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quietbridge
Seedling
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- 14
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I guess the paint fumes have done permanent damage...don't worry I will leave you alone from here on out...it appears the grey matter has calcified.
edprocoat
Masterpiece
I will assume the remarks you made are about yourself and I accept your apology. Your promise to leave me alone is pleasing too, as I said earlier I love to hear opinions or tips about Bonsai that is why I post here, but you can keep pointless retorts such as the one posted earlier.
ed
Ed,
Your posts drive me crazy! You post pictures of trees most of us would throw away, and you get some of the best practicioners of bonsai giving you advice, and it seems that all you want to do is argue with them and tell them that you like it the way it is. Why post? Errrr....
Ok, my "rant" is over. All of us involved with bonsai like to help beginners along. And, yes, you ARE a beginner. Yes, I read your history of how you learned bonsai at 10 years old, so you've been doing bonsai for 40 years. Ed, that little bit of instruction is the equivalent of a First Grade education. If you repeat First Grade for 40 years, you do not have a PhD. You just get very good at "See Spot. See Spot run." Sure, hands on experience can teach you something. You have shown the ability to keep them alive, that's good.
Now, as for tools: I admire your desire and ability to keep your costs low. But, as a contractor, you surely have heard the adage "A man is only as good as his tools". I'm not going to say you have to only use expensive bonsai tools to do good bonsai, but a basic set can be really helpful. Would you use a chainsaw to drill a hole in a door to install a lockset? Of course not. You know that a proper hole saw would do the job faster, cleaner, and yield a better result. The "rounded end wire cutters" do allow you to remove wire more efficiently.
Selection of plant material: I'm not going to say you can't find bonsai material at Home Depot, but generally speaking, the material there is less suitable for bonsai than other places. I, like you, like to find bargains. I scour the back benches at the local bonsai shop looking for material that others have overlooked. Mind you, it will be more than 50 cents. IIt also helps support the local bonsai vendor. Retailing bonsai is a tough business, so I try to support the shop whenever I can. But, regardless of where you get material, healthy material develops faster than poor. Training bonsai stresses the trees, so starting with healthy material, or letting marginal material get healthy before you start will get you better results in the long run. To put it in contractor terms: When you go to Home Depot to buy lumber for a project, do you sight down the boards to see if they're warped or split? If they are, you probably reject them to get clear straight ones, right? Doing so lets you do a better job on your project. Right? Same with bonsai material. Getting good material up front makes for better bonsai.
Use of alternate materials: Such as coke cans for screens. No, I don't make a special trip to get screening every time I pot a tree. I bought some hardware cloth, maybe 6 feet? several years ago. I'm still using it. As for glazed bowls... Apparantly they work for you. But unglazed interiors would probably be BETTER. At any rate, your trees should be tied in. Now, bonsai allows for some creativity here. Rock slabs, terra cotta lids, etc can make great bonsai pots. A Micky Mouse cereal bowl would not. It would distract from the tree.
But, Ed, seriously... I have been doing bonsai for 40 years, too. I started when I was in high school. I do not think I know everything. In fact, the longer I do bonsai, the more I realize there's more that I don't know. Which for me is exciting! You post a lot. I can tell you like to talk, and that's fine. Forums like this are great places to learn. If someone makes a suggestion, such as to avoid glazed interior pots (bowls), find out why unglazed is better rather than simply argue that it makes no difference. (If it makes no difference then WHY are all bonsai pots unglazed on the inside?)
Ed, I'm posting this because I can tell you are passionate about bonsai. That's fantastic! But, you're ignorant about a lot of aspects to the craft. Ignorant doesn't mean stupid. It just means you don't know. And I'm not trying to insult you by using the term "ignorant". I'm ignorant about a lot of things, too. For instance, I'm totally ignorant about any kind of indoor bonsai. I have no knowledge about ficus or anything related. I freely admit to being ignorant. So, you will never see me commenting on anything I'm ignorant about unless it's a complement. But, you can become knowledgeable if you want. Heeding the advice you get from this site is one step. Some workshops would be another. Continuing what you've been doing for the past 40 years will not increase your knowlege.
I do wish you well.
Your posts drive me crazy! You post pictures of trees most of us would throw away, and you get some of the best practicioners of bonsai giving you advice, and it seems that all you want to do is argue with them and tell them that you like it the way it is. Why post? Errrr....
Ok, my "rant" is over. All of us involved with bonsai like to help beginners along. And, yes, you ARE a beginner. Yes, I read your history of how you learned bonsai at 10 years old, so you've been doing bonsai for 40 years. Ed, that little bit of instruction is the equivalent of a First Grade education. If you repeat First Grade for 40 years, you do not have a PhD. You just get very good at "See Spot. See Spot run." Sure, hands on experience can teach you something. You have shown the ability to keep them alive, that's good.
Now, as for tools: I admire your desire and ability to keep your costs low. But, as a contractor, you surely have heard the adage "A man is only as good as his tools". I'm not going to say you have to only use expensive bonsai tools to do good bonsai, but a basic set can be really helpful. Would you use a chainsaw to drill a hole in a door to install a lockset? Of course not. You know that a proper hole saw would do the job faster, cleaner, and yield a better result. The "rounded end wire cutters" do allow you to remove wire more efficiently.
Selection of plant material: I'm not going to say you can't find bonsai material at Home Depot, but generally speaking, the material there is less suitable for bonsai than other places. I, like you, like to find bargains. I scour the back benches at the local bonsai shop looking for material that others have overlooked. Mind you, it will be more than 50 cents. IIt also helps support the local bonsai vendor. Retailing bonsai is a tough business, so I try to support the shop whenever I can. But, regardless of where you get material, healthy material develops faster than poor. Training bonsai stresses the trees, so starting with healthy material, or letting marginal material get healthy before you start will get you better results in the long run. To put it in contractor terms: When you go to Home Depot to buy lumber for a project, do you sight down the boards to see if they're warped or split? If they are, you probably reject them to get clear straight ones, right? Doing so lets you do a better job on your project. Right? Same with bonsai material. Getting good material up front makes for better bonsai.
Use of alternate materials: Such as coke cans for screens. No, I don't make a special trip to get screening every time I pot a tree. I bought some hardware cloth, maybe 6 feet? several years ago. I'm still using it. As for glazed bowls... Apparantly they work for you. But unglazed interiors would probably be BETTER. At any rate, your trees should be tied in. Now, bonsai allows for some creativity here. Rock slabs, terra cotta lids, etc can make great bonsai pots. A Micky Mouse cereal bowl would not. It would distract from the tree.
But, Ed, seriously... I have been doing bonsai for 40 years, too. I started when I was in high school. I do not think I know everything. In fact, the longer I do bonsai, the more I realize there's more that I don't know. Which for me is exciting! You post a lot. I can tell you like to talk, and that's fine. Forums like this are great places to learn. If someone makes a suggestion, such as to avoid glazed interior pots (bowls), find out why unglazed is better rather than simply argue that it makes no difference. (If it makes no difference then WHY are all bonsai pots unglazed on the inside?)
Ed, I'm posting this because I can tell you are passionate about bonsai. That's fantastic! But, you're ignorant about a lot of aspects to the craft. Ignorant doesn't mean stupid. It just means you don't know. And I'm not trying to insult you by using the term "ignorant". I'm ignorant about a lot of things, too. For instance, I'm totally ignorant about any kind of indoor bonsai. I have no knowledge about ficus or anything related. I freely admit to being ignorant. So, you will never see me commenting on anything I'm ignorant about unless it's a complement. But, you can become knowledgeable if you want. Heeding the advice you get from this site is one step. Some workshops would be another. Continuing what you've been doing for the past 40 years will not increase your knowlege.
I do wish you well.
I don't know why everyone is so negative.
I thought the whole part of bonsai was to see a self pleasing image and create it. Think outside the box. Many people like to stick to the strict preset styles that were designed so long ago while very few others choose the creative or natural looking way.
If someone is happy with the project they have why or who are we to insult the person they are or they form of their tree. Sure I might see something different in this juniper. But I wouldn't critique Ed or anyone for that matter on their decision and I surely wouldn't say it was a waste of time. People learn trial and sometimes error (not saying Ed is in error) and I'm sure we all learned this way.
So instead of being so negative try giving a positive and reinforcing comment.
I will lead in an excellent example.
Ed if you are going to keep this as a cascade or semi-cascade I personally would keep the branch on the right as an apex. This little guy has quite a few years before I can see this really developing into anything but let it grow and be happy. I think I'd let the cascade part grow wild and let those branches split off for a season or two then cut them back so you can develop branches and sob branching and then start on the ramification and developing nice wide pads. As for the branch on the right I'd let it lengthen a little and start bending it over to the left toward the cascade past center of the trunk and let it fill out into a nice triangular apex. I'm on my ey**** so I can't do a virt but if I remember later I will to show you what I could see in the future development of this tree.
Not the best virt but the best I could do in a few min.
I thought the whole part of bonsai was to see a self pleasing image and create it. Think outside the box. Many people like to stick to the strict preset styles that were designed so long ago while very few others choose the creative or natural looking way.
If someone is happy with the project they have why or who are we to insult the person they are or they form of their tree. Sure I might see something different in this juniper. But I wouldn't critique Ed or anyone for that matter on their decision and I surely wouldn't say it was a waste of time. People learn trial and sometimes error (not saying Ed is in error) and I'm sure we all learned this way.
So instead of being so negative try giving a positive and reinforcing comment.
I will lead in an excellent example.
Ed if you are going to keep this as a cascade or semi-cascade I personally would keep the branch on the right as an apex. This little guy has quite a few years before I can see this really developing into anything but let it grow and be happy. I think I'd let the cascade part grow wild and let those branches split off for a season or two then cut them back so you can develop branches and sob branching and then start on the ramification and developing nice wide pads. As for the branch on the right I'd let it lengthen a little and start bending it over to the left toward the cascade past center of the trunk and let it fill out into a nice triangular apex. I'm on my ey**** so I can't do a virt but if I remember later I will to show you what I could see in the future development of this tree.
Not the best virt but the best I could do in a few min.
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edprocoat
Masterpiece
AdairM, sorry for driving you crazy bud, but it must have been a short trip. I was not arguing with anyone who gave me constructive ideas or criticism. I did however argue with those who posted pointless insults. The last two ones I disputed in this thread had nothing constructive to add at all.
Look , I understand some of you here make your living off of Bonsai, while others seemingly hope to do that. I applaud your entrepreneurship, that is great that you are trying to develop an air of supremacy that you can turn into a profit in Bonsai. I have stated this numerous times, I am not into this for critical acclaim or monetary rewards. I do this for the love of growing things, trees I can take with me. For example I was just in Northern Ohio on a campground while working. I have received hundreds of compliments on my Bonsai and have had dozens of enjoyable conversations about them. Maybe you can say the same thing and you can understand what it is to appreciate what you can develop from cheap sources. I feel a sense of pride when my cheap plants become something else, especially when others enjoy them. But in the end I do this for myself. Again I have to say if you can find one post where i have insulted someone for giving me an opinion or a design idea prove it.
You started your post like this " Your posts drive me crazy! You post pictures of trees most of us would throw away " while that may be your opinion was this either constructive or helpful in any way, and as you seem to lump yourself in with this group " and you get some of the best practicioners of bonsai giving you advice, and it seems that all you want to do is argue with them and tell them that you like it the way it is. Why post? Errrr...." so tell me how your jab was in the spirit of " All of us involved with bonsai like to help beginners along. " edify me please.
Yes I have received sound advice without insults from many here, and I have thanked them each time and responded kindly, its only when I receive petty punitive remarks that I respond in a like manner. If my posts drive you mad, then feel free to ignore them.
BTW, I never use boards from Home Depot in my work, its fine for building a personal bench or a grow box but for my clients I have wood made at sawmills.
ed
Look , I understand some of you here make your living off of Bonsai, while others seemingly hope to do that. I applaud your entrepreneurship, that is great that you are trying to develop an air of supremacy that you can turn into a profit in Bonsai. I have stated this numerous times, I am not into this for critical acclaim or monetary rewards. I do this for the love of growing things, trees I can take with me. For example I was just in Northern Ohio on a campground while working. I have received hundreds of compliments on my Bonsai and have had dozens of enjoyable conversations about them. Maybe you can say the same thing and you can understand what it is to appreciate what you can develop from cheap sources. I feel a sense of pride when my cheap plants become something else, especially when others enjoy them. But in the end I do this for myself. Again I have to say if you can find one post where i have insulted someone for giving me an opinion or a design idea prove it.
You started your post like this " Your posts drive me crazy! You post pictures of trees most of us would throw away " while that may be your opinion was this either constructive or helpful in any way, and as you seem to lump yourself in with this group " and you get some of the best practicioners of bonsai giving you advice, and it seems that all you want to do is argue with them and tell them that you like it the way it is. Why post? Errrr...." so tell me how your jab was in the spirit of " All of us involved with bonsai like to help beginners along. " edify me please.
Yes I have received sound advice without insults from many here, and I have thanked them each time and responded kindly, its only when I receive petty punitive remarks that I respond in a like manner. If my posts drive you mad, then feel free to ignore them.
BTW, I never use boards from Home Depot in my work, its fine for building a personal bench or a grow box but for my clients I have wood made at sawmills.
ed
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edprocoat
Masterpiece
Kevster, I appreciate your words and your offer to do a virtual. This is what it looks like now.
Front
IMG_8556.JPG by edprocoat, on Flickr
Side view of the cascade part, which is now 3 inches below the bottom of the pot.
IMG_8555.JPG by edprocoat, on Flickr
The trunk, which is 1 and 1/4 inches across at the soil line with nebari radiating around the entire base of it. Keep in mind that the trunk is only 2 and 1/4 inches tall to where the cascade comes off and the top part rises. The total height is 5 inches now, which gives me a 1-1/4 inch base by 5 inch total height which is less than a 1 to 5 ratio of trunk width to total height. This looks really good in person and in fact gets tons of compliments but it does not show well in pictures.
IMG_8560.JPG by edprocoat, on Flickr
Again Kevster, thanks for being helpful and polite.
ed
Front
IMG_8556.JPG by edprocoat, on Flickr
Side view of the cascade part, which is now 3 inches below the bottom of the pot.
IMG_8555.JPG by edprocoat, on Flickr
The trunk, which is 1 and 1/4 inches across at the soil line with nebari radiating around the entire base of it. Keep in mind that the trunk is only 2 and 1/4 inches tall to where the cascade comes off and the top part rises. The total height is 5 inches now, which gives me a 1-1/4 inch base by 5 inch total height which is less than a 1 to 5 ratio of trunk width to total height. This looks really good in person and in fact gets tons of compliments but it does not show well in pictures.
IMG_8560.JPG by edprocoat, on Flickr
Again Kevster, thanks for being helpful and polite.
ed
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Ed, it looks like it's growing along nicely. Have you ever considered allowing the top to grow a branch that overhangs the lower cascading branch? I believe that would look nice, and meld the two parts together in a harmonizing way.
edprocoat
Masterpiece
Judy, thats what I was hoping to do. I am trying to keep the cascade part open on the front part to view the main branches, this thing constantly needs trimmed on the front part. You see the unibrow look it is developing where all the pads are merged, I can not seem to keep them seperate. I hope to do what you said, or maybe what kevster said and bring the top branch a little more to the left, or maybe both. The top part originally was growing to the right and its been wired to bring it to that point, I wanted to wait till next year to allow it to harden more them bend it again just above where it attaches to the trunk so hopefully it will not break and have a nice slight curve in it. I hope to keep the branch structure visible enough to be noticeable while not being so one sided but as small as this is it is hard to wire let alone make serious changes. I do not have the dexterity to wire the small branches on the pads, I would rather they pointed more upward then it would seperate the three pads more visibly. I may try some wedges made out of styrofoam next summer to induce the pads up.
ed
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HotAction
Chumono
Thanks ed, they are both doing fine and the branch scars are healing just fine. If you wanna make me an offer, they might be for sale.
Dave
edprocoat
Masterpiece
Thanks dave they are nice trees but I have more than I need right now. Even with all the ones I have lost this year.
...ed
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Sort of like this. Elm from root cutting.
Attachments
edprocoat
Masterpiece
Smoke that is beautiful ! I love the whole thing the size, the pot, the styling, great job.
BTW is that a seiju elm ?
ed
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Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Thanks, nope just a crappy ole plain street elm.
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