Need repotting advice on Japanese maples

[sorce]

Don't lie, you just hate lichens!

Sorce

 

[Davidlpf]

So that discredits the article for me. Our ancestors were smarter than us.

Sorce

Complete agree, YOUR ancestors probably were smarter than you .

They hadn't the information that we have now, and were smart enough to have offspring, despite the moon.

@BalconyBonsai : apologies for hijack your post with a nonsense discussion.

 

[ghues]

It’s been mentioned before but when I had this issue, I took a chopstick and stuck it through the soil all over the surface which increased water penetration. Your trees are still growing and will continue to do so for the next few months so I would also lightly fertilize them, preparing them for repotting in the spring, this will give you time to order and get soil ingredients.

 

[Paradox]

@BalconyBonsai

The two in the rectangle pots should be fine until spring. Just poke some holes in the soil with a root pick or something like that to get more permeabliity.
The one in the round pot is a concern because the roots are exposed at the surface. If it were mine I think I would either very very carefully slip pot it into a bigger pot with absolutely no disturbance to the roots if possible or just bury it into a bigger container as is and repot in spring. Repotting maples when leafed out is very very risky because repotting will disturb the roots and will impact water absorbtion. Those leaves create a bigger demand for water because of the greater transpiration they have (big surface area) and from the warmer weather.

 

[Squirrel7t7]

Hi, I'm new to bonsai and got my first tree this spring. Just last week I received 3 new trees from an online vendor, a japanese maple(no specific variety), a deshojo japanese maple and a trident maple. All of them seem healthy with nice foliage and new leaves forming but the soil they are planted in seems horrible. When pressing it it is really hard and it is not possible to press a finger in to it. When watering, it pools on the surface, eventually draining out at the bottom. On the deshojo it seems there is also a lot of roots on the surface of the soil, to me indicating that it's pot bound? On the trident maple there was also quite a lot of liverworts on the soil.

My question now is whether I need to do an emergency repot of these before fall or if I should wait until spring? I know you are not supposed to repot until the sprung but I am worried the condition of the soil is too bad. I was planning to repot the deshojo(and maybe also the common japanese maple) in the spring anyway into a larger training pot since I would like the trunk to grow a bit larger. I dont know if that will change things since that might mean I won't need to do as much root pruning and maybe that is more forgiving for the trees?

For context, I live in Stockholm Sweden where we will have cold weather in a couple of months. My plan is to build an overwintering shelter on my balcony and isolating the pots with styrofoam and bubble plastic wrap and some sort of greenhouse plastic where these trees will be kept.

Any tips and suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

Nice collection. They all look healthy and vigorous so no emergency re pot needed but they look like they could do with re potting in spring.

 

[sorce]

Complete agree, YOUR ancestors probably were smarter than you .

They hadn't the information that we have now, and were smart enough to have offspring, despite the moon.

@BalconyBonsai : apologies for hijack your post with a nonsense discussion.

Having offspring and providing for them are two completely different things!

"Any fool with a ____ can make a baby." -Furious Stlyes

It takes a real man to learn the moon and plant accordingly to provide for his children.

Sorce

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yes, I think slip potting is what I mean. So when slip potting a lot of the old soil/media is transfered over to the new pot? I thought I still needed to "clean" the roots to some extent but maybe that is enough to upset the tree?

Can I ask what source you used to know when the trees go in to dormancy here? What should I use to cover up the surface roots? Something like pumice?

I will try to remember to keep this thread updated as I go.

Thanks!

@BobbyLane said your trees look good and I’ve looked at the photos multiple times and concur. The third tree photo might be showing some water or sun stress though.

Could be that your media just dried out during transport and is having a hard time rewetting. That’s normal.

So try the soaking routine and chopstick gently a bit as @AJL mentioned to see if you can revitalize the media. If that works none of the rest really matters.

Waiting a week for some extra media should be ok as it looks like the setting they are in now is pretty sheltered. Also looks like the seller scraped the surface media off and maybe dried out the tree a bit to lower their shipping costs. Who was the seller btw?

I checked out your monthly climatic data on multiple sites for when Stockholm averages below 50F and above 40F in Stockholm, see below data. Check out this article about the dormancy process.

Cheers
DSD sends

SwedenWeather averages
Overview



Month High / Low(°F) Rain
August 72° / 57° 8 days
September 63° / 51° 8 days
October 50° / 42° 8 days
November 42° / 36° 10 days

 

[Kadebe]

It wouldn't be the time till frost that makes it a no but the time after the full moon. A week after is kinda late. And the next Full moon would be too late.

So you're better off waiting. Take the whole winter to source good, easy, cheap substrate.

Definitely cover the roots, but not before jamming a toothpick in the soil a bunch to aerate it, and so water can penetrate.

Sorce

Newbie question...
"poke some holes"... the water will drain well through the holes but I guess the rest of the soil will not getting wet enough?
He has Styrofoam.... for emergency cases, would chopped styrofoam, mixed with old soil not be a better solution? Any inorganic substrate can be used, so not why styrofoam, as I've heard Herr WP mention once on a YouTube video about "watering and substrates" that one can even use that.
I guess it was a little joke, but why not? Because the styrofoam is very light the tree should been secured.

Just some thinking

 

[sorce]

Newbie question...
"poke some holes"... the water will drain well through the holes but I guess the rest of the soil will not getting wet enough?
He has Styrofoam.... for emergency cases, would chopped styrofoam, mixed with old soil not be a better solution? Any inorganic substrate can be used, so not why styrofoam, as I've heard Herr WP mention once on a YouTube video about "watering and substrates" that one can even use that.
I guess it was a little joke, but why not? Because the styrofoam is very light the tree should been secured.

Just some thinking

Usually a hard surface is a hard surface due to fertilizer, bird dung, moss, weeds, erosion, etc etc...

Soji is the Japanese term for cleaning that shit off!

Penetrating that layer with some holes is usually enough to allow water penetration rather than it just running down the side and out of the pot.

Mirai Live free videos should be taken in to understand best the environment of the pot and the habits of water, and watering it.

As well as when to Repot.

It's near always better to just wait. Prepared supplies or not.

I personally hate styrofoam. I hate everything that looks unnatural. Green feet balls, styrofoam, strand of AstroTurf, etc.

Most important @BalconyBonsai , this isn't exactly material to guess with, or misstep on.

We always have time to research.

ALWAYS!

Sorce

 

[HorseloverFat]

This story can be used to argue EITHER side of this debate (Lunar.. seasonal.. ect.)... so take from it what YOU need..

There one was a mother, this mother was cooking a roast for her two daughters. The older daughter observed the mother chopping the lateral ends of this roast off (perfectly good ends) when she was being instructed on the process.

Several years later, the eldest daughter was cooking a roast for the youngest and their extended family. Upon chopping the ends of the roast, the youngest daughter said, “Yeah, I always do it that way, too, because I’ve seen YOU do it. But WHY do we do this?” The older sister said, matter-of-factly.. it’s the way our mother always did it.. the way it’s ALWAYS been done”

Being a “seeker”, this answer was unacceptable to the youngest daughter. She went to the “retirement community” her mother resided at, searching for answers. “Mom, why do we always have to cut the ends off of our roasts.?. it seems like a waste.”

The mother looked very confused for a moment before bursting out laughing. “My pan was too small... or the roast was too big.. i can’t remember!” The “kitchen” lesson being... pots and roasts change... adapt your cooking.

 

[Kadebe]

Newbie question...
"poke some holes"... the water will drain well through the holes but I guess the rest of the soil will not getting wet enough?
He has Styrofoam.... for emergency cases, would chopped styrofoam, mixed with old soil not be a better solution? Any inorganic substrate can be used, so not why styrofoam, as I've heard Herr WP mention once on a YouTube video about "watering and substrates" that one can even use that.
I guess it was a little joke, but why not? Because the styrofoam is very light the tree should been secured.

Just some thinking

I personally hate styrofoam. I hate everything that looks unnatural. Green feet balls, styrofoam, strand of AstroTurf, etc.

Sorce

I hate styrofoam too , was just thinking... in worst case scenario...

 

[sorce]

This story can be used to argue EITHER side of this debate (Lunar.. seasonal.. ect.)... so take from it what YOU need..

There one was a mother, this mother was cooking a roast for her two daughters. The older daughter observed the mother chopping the lateral ends of this roast off (perfectly good ends) when she was being instructed on the process.

Several years later, the eldest daughter was cooking a roast for the youngest and their extended family. Upon chopping the ends of the roast, the youngest daughter said, “Yeah, I always do it that way, too, because I’ve seen YOU do it. But WHY do we do this?” The older sister said, matter-of-factly.. it’s the way our mother always did it.. the way it’s ALWAYS been done”

Being a “seeker”, this answer was unacceptable to the youngest daughter. She went to the “retirement community” her mother resided at, searching for answers. “Mom, why do we always have to cut the ends off of our roasts.?. it seems like a waste.”

The mother looked very confused for a moment before bursting out laughing. “My pan was too small... or the roast was too big.. i can’t remember!” The “kitchen” lesson being... pots and roasts change... adapt your cooking.

Excellent!

Sorce

 

[BalconyBonsai]

Complete agree, YOUR ancestors probably were smarter than you .

They hadn't the information that we have now, and were smart enough to have offspring, despite the moon.

@BalconyBonsai : apologies for hijack your post with a nonsense discussion.

Don't worry, it was quite amusing to read

 

[BalconyBonsai]

@BalconyBonsai

The two in the rectangle pots should be fine until spring. Just poke some holes in the soil with a root pick or something like that to get more permeabliity.
The one in the round pot is a concern because the roots are exposed at the surface. If it were mine I think I would either very very carefully slip pot it into a bigger pot with absolutely no disturbance to the roots if possible or just bury it into a bigger container as is and repot in spring. Repotting maples when leafed out is very very risky because repotting will disturb the roots and will impact water absorbtion. Those leaves create a bigger demand for water because of the greater transpiration they have (big surface area) and from the warmer weather.

@Paradox
Regarding covering the surface roots/slip potting/burying the pot in a larger container of the deshojo in the oval pot, what should be used as soil? I have some, I think around, 5mm pumice, would that suffice as a cover for the roots? Since I only have normal garden variety outdoor planting soil, slip potting or burying the pot in a larger container doesn't seem like an option for a quick fix.

 

[Paradox]

@Paradox
Regarding covering the surface roots/slip potting/burying the pot in a larger container of the deshojo in the oval pot, what should be used as soil? I have some, I think around, 5mm pumice, would that suffice as a cover for the roots? Since I only have normal garden variety outdoor planting soil, slip potting or burying the pot in a larger container doesn't seem like an option for a quick fix.

Can you tell what its potted in now?

If you are just going to cover in the current pot, that will be fine. Should also be ok if you bury the pot, but make sure you poke some holes in that soil to allow for more water into the soil.
The danger is if the two soils are very different in consistency, the water will take the path of least resistance into the pumice on the sides and not where the roots are. That is bad.

I would not use potting soil because that will stay way too wet.

 

[leatherback]

These seem to be potted in my petpeeve.. Akadama which over time has fallen apart.

Right now, the trees look healthy enough. With your winter ready to hit in, with bad luck, 10 weeks I would leave them as they are. Take care watering. Make sure they do not dry out. And do a proper full root-work repot in early spring.

 

[BalconyBonsai]

Can you tell what its potted in now?

If you are just going to cover in the current pot, that will be fine. Should also be ok if you bury the pot, but make sure you poke some holes in that soil to allow for more water into the soil.
The danger is if the two soils are very different in consistency, the water will take the path of least resistance into the pumice on the sides and not where the roots are. That is bad.

I would not use potting soil because that will stay way too wet.

Ok, then I think I will go with just adding a layer of pumice on top of the soil for protection. The soil looks and feels almost like clay used to make pots but more impenatrable. So I think @leatherback might be correct that it's old broken down akadama that has formed into almost a brick. It will be interesting to see how much work it will be to try and free the roots from this in the spring...

 

[BalconyBonsai]

These seem to be potted in my petpeeve.. Akadama which over time has fallen apart.

Right now, the trees look healthy enough. With your winter ready to hit in, with bad luck, 10 weeks I would leave them as they are. Take care watering. Make sure they do not dry out. And do a proper full root-work repot in early spring.

I think you are correct seeing as the roots seems they should have been pruned some time ago. Both some surface roots but also some growing out of the drainage holes so I think these trees might have stayed in these pots too long and that the soil might at some point in the past have been ok.

Thanks for you advise, I will water them carefully and monitor their overall status during the fall.

 

[Davidlpf]

Ok, then I think I will go with just adding a layer of pumice on top of the soil for protection.

So you're going to hide the problem, not to solve it. I wish you good luck, you're going to need it.

The soil looks and feels almost like clay used to make pots but more impenatrable. So I think @leatherback might be correct that it's old broken down akadama that has formed into almost a brick. It will be interesting to see how much work it will be to try and free the roots from this in the spring...

Don't underestimate the power of the pressure water, may help you to wash the old substrate, and made the roots wet during the process.

As I had said, good luck.

P.S I had use styrofoam as drainage layer in big containers and zero problems whit that. click,click

 

[Paradox]

So you're going to hide the problem, not to solve it. I wish you good luck, you're going to need it.



Don't underestimate the power of the pressure water, may help you to wash the old substrate, and made the roots wet during the process.

As I had said, good luck.

P.S I had use styrofoam as drainage layer in big containers add zero problems whit that.

He isnt going to hide the problem. He is going to cover those roots so they dont dry out or have a problem over the winter because they are exposed.
Repotting a leafed out maple in the middle of summer is VERY risky. If he pokes some holes in the soil to let more water in, the tree will most likely be just fine until spring as long as those roots are covered.