Need help , what type of soil for seedlings?

[dgratz00]

Hello friends,

I am just starting off growing Bonsai, I have a green thumb, however this is another beast. I have three types, flame tree, pine, and black locust. They are in the seedling stage now, about 6 weeks since germination, maybe a 8 weeks. They are still in there starting pots and I have a few questions. Here are the tent conditions

-60 % RH,
-72 F
-soil temp 78 degrees (i was told this is best for the flame trees , high humidity and soil temp)
-I use small computer fans for intake and outake air
-I use a humidifier and controller that makes humidity to around 65% then a fan turns on when it passes, and keeps it rather steady
- heat matt that has a probe in the soil to keep it 78 F
-light 16 on 8 off (about 3 feet above plants)

(I know there are somethings wrong , please point them out)

How should I use a fan in the tent as seedlings, i find when they get hit directly even on slow speed, they do not like it? any recommendations


** If you see pics, as it gets later in the day, my flame tree leaves begin to droop (nothing to do with the watering , but I believer the lighting, I provied a picture of hwat I use, but if I should switch, let me know
1. I started them from a kid that came with those peatmoss dirt discs and I was wondering if I should transplant them , however I believe I should wait a while until the root systems is fully developed in the current pots. So I suppose my question is, when should I transplant them, ?

2. What soil should I use ? can I use the same for these three breeds? Chat GTP told me to use miracle, palm, cactus citrus mix but I am also seeing more airy variations, any recommendations?

3. With the soil you answer with, what is the best way to fertilize them. I Currently have bonsai pellets (which is a question in itself) see pictures , but when should I begin to use this fertilize before transplanting and once transplanted, what is the best method and types to use and how? (I plan to transplant into 4 inch deep 6-8 long pots)

4. At what stage should I begin to use wire to train?

5. I am growing indoors in a grow tent so that I can control the environment, (wow i wish i knew the type of LED i am using right now) but if i did not have a light, using a 2x3x48 tent, what would you recommend for the seedling stage? how high above should the light be?

6. Overall after seeing the picutres, please give me any and all input and advice you deem useful, thank you very much, also let me know how they look to you, healthy?

 

[Shibui]

I believe flame tree leaves close up at night. Nothing to do with water or heat, just what they naturally do. Hope someone will correct that if I'm not right.

Your pine should really be outdoors. Conifers rarely live long indoors. Even as small seedlings they are tough enough to cope with almost any conditions. I suspect Black locust will also do better outdoors in real sun.
Knowing your location would make it easier to give specific recommendations about timing and other seasonal factors which can vary from one part of the world to another. Adding location to your profile means it pops up on each post and saves you typing each time.

The pine seedlings are at the stage where I would normally pot into large pots so they can grow and develop. Soil mix in grow pots is not critical. Provided it has enough air and you can water to provide enough moisture to roots while not waterlogging they should grow well. Some successful growers use any good potting soil while growing trees on. Others start with a good 'bonsai mix' right from the start. Both appear to be equally successful provided care matches the chosen soil and ambient conditions.

I usually give the roots a trim at first transplant to encourage plenty of lateral roots which will eventually become spreading surface roots on your bonsai. I have not used peat disks for germination so don't know how difficult that will be to separate from the roots. It may be better to just pot up each time and hope the roots do not end up as a tangled mess.

Any complete fertiliser will be Ok for your trees. They will appreciate fertiliser right from the start because the soil they have started in is probably very low in nutrients.
Fert for bonsai does not have to be specially formulated for bonsai. Bonsai are also trees and are also potted plants. Any fert for trees, potted plants, etc will be OK. What fert do you use on otehr potted plants?
Bonsai pellets are generally organic which means slow acting which means very little actual nutrient to the roots for a week or 2 after applying it. seedlings can cope with low nutrients for a while but will gradually starting showing signs of starvation without added fert.
Liquid fert is faster acting - available to the roots within minutes, but also leaches out of the pot in a few weeks with watering.
Controlled release fert is good because it slowly releases nutrient every time we water for many months so saves remembering when to fertilise.
I use all 3 types in rotation for my bonsai on the grounds that variety in nutrition is a good thing.

Every grower has a different idea of when to start training. Wiring early allows us more freedom to bend thinner, more flexible trunks but there's a risk of damaging really young stems and faster growing young trees thicken quickly which can cause permanent marks in the bark. I'd probably advise waiting at least a year before wiring seedlings. Many bonsai are shaped more by pruning than by wire and much of the early trunk is often pruned off to get trunk taper, bends, etc so early wiring is not altogether critical.

All my trees are grown outdoors so I will have to let someone else familiar with growing indoors help with advice on the tent.

 

[dgratz00]

I believe flame tree leaves close up at night. Nothing to do with water or heat, just what they naturally do. Hope someone will correct that if I'm not right.

Your pine should really be outdoors. Conifers rarely live long indoors. Even as small seedlings they are tough enough to cope with almost any conditions. I suspect Black locust will also do better outdoors in real sun.
Knowing your location would make it easier to give specific recommendations about timing and other seasonal factors which can vary from one part of the world to another. Adding location to your profile means it pops up on each post and saves you typing each time.

The pine seedlings are at the stage where I would normally pot into large pots so they can grow and develop. Soil mix in grow pots is not critical. Provided it has enough air and you can water to provide enough moisture to roots while not waterlogging they should grow well. Some successful growers use any good potting soil while growing trees on. Others start with a good 'bonsai mix' right from the start. Both appear to be equally successful provided care matches the chosen soil and ambient conditions.

I usually give the roots a trim at first transplant to encourage plenty of lateral roots which will eventually become spreading surface roots on your bonsai. I have not used peat disks for germination so don't know how difficult that will be to separate from the roots. It may be better to just pot up each time and hope the roots do not end up as a tangled mess.

Any complete fertiliser will be Ok for your trees. They will appreciate fertiliser right from the start because the soil they have started in is probably very low in nutrients.
Fert for bonsai does not have to be specially formulated for bonsai. Bonsai are also trees and are also potted plants. Any fert for trees, potted plants, etc will be OK. What fert do you use on otehr potted plants?
Bonsai pellets are generally organic which means slow acting which means very little actual nutrient to the roots for a week or 2 after applying it. seedlings can cope with low nutrients for a while but will gradually starting showing signs of starvation without added fert.
Liquid fert is faster acting - available to the roots within minutes, but also leaches out of the pot in a few weeks with watering.
Controlled release fert is good because it slowly releases nutrient every time we water for many months so saves remembering when to fertilise.
I use all 3 types in rotation for my bonsai on the grounds that variety in nutrition is a good thing.

Every grower has a different idea of when to start training. Wiring early allows us more freedom to bend thinner, more flexible trunks but there's a risk of damaging really young stems and faster growing young trees thicken quickly which can cause permanent marks in the bark. I'd probably advise waiting at least a year before wiring seedlings. Many bonsai are shaped more by pruning than by wire and much of the early trunk is often pruned off to get trunk taper, bends, etc so early wiring is not altogether critical.

All my trees are grown outdoors so I will have to let someone else familiar with growing indoors help with advice on the tent.

I live in Philadelphia PA , heading into alte spring now, touching the 80s, what size pots should I put the black locust and pine? should I leave them be a few more monthns in the pots they are in and make sure to water wehn needed?

I have these fertilizer pellets for bonsai, and given they are only seedling 7 or so weeks in, i just put one pebble in each to start and see. Make sure I dont burn them. i dont see any deficiency signs but assume after 7 weeks the natural fert would have been used up. Excuse the typos my keyboard is messed up.....

Any general tips for the flame tree indoors (light type, when to transplant, what to look for, correct way to trim roots, anything you deem important?) and I am going to add my location now, it can get humid when hot like any summer but its not a state known as "hmid" like Florida, For these pine and black locust as they are in starter treys and small pots, since they will be in the heat, shold I use a larger deeper pot for these until they are older and then transpant them to a more bonsai type shallow pot?

 

[Shibui]

what size pots should I put the black locust and pine? should I leave them be a few more monthns in the pots they are in and make sure to water wehn needed?

There is rarely only one way to achieve bonsai.
If you can manage watering in the little pots those trees will still grow. Just be aware how critical watering is for trees in very small pots in warmer weather.
I normally shift seedlings into pots around 4" wide for the first year. That allows more space and they will grow a bit faster. Either way should be OK.

1 or 2 fertiliser pellets on these small pots should be OK. It is very difficult to burn trees with organic fertiliser pellets but safe is also good. Less fert just means slightly slower growth.

Any general tips for the flame tree indoors

Not from me. Delonix is a species I have never grown. All my trees are outdoors so I know next to nothing about managing trees indoors.