Need guidance - dormancy indoors (several species)

I find a big factor in overwintering trees outdoors is the wind. Windchill and the drying effect of the wind is the big issue. I'm in zone 6b and have lost maples in pots due to the windchill.
So protect the tree from wind. Take 10 deg F off the hardyness of a tree when in a pot. My first couple years of Bonsai I would put small trees in a covered 5 gal pail with holes in the bottom for drainage and placed the tree on a brick or something to raise it off the bottom. You can leave it uncovered until it loses it's leaves or they are not green any longer. They won't need light then. Keep it in a shaded spot so it doesn't heat up from the sun on warm days. You could also insulate it to keep the temp more consistent. For lighting inside I've been using cheap 48 inch shop lights for many years. 5k bulbs are the best but anything works. I have been changing to cheap $24.00 LED 5k, 4800 lumen lights in the last few years. A humidifier in the room is a big part of keeping the trees healthy, I try to keep the humidity level more than 40% and around 45%. I have found that much higher than 50% and you can create condensation on the windows and mold. I am growing Brazilian Rain Trees, Portulacaria afra, Ficus Benjamina, Ficus Nerifolia, Christmas Cactus, and a half dozen varieties or so of Orchids etc. Too low of humidity and you will get pest like Spider mites. I let the temps in the room get down into the low 60's (F). until around late Dec. (this actually helps the Orchids Bloom) and gives everything a slightly dormant (rest period). Trying to keep it too warm will just dry everything out and lower the humidity. I have placed larger Portulacaria and Ficus more than a foot away, next to the lights because of lack of room under the lights and they have done just fine.. Remember that watering needs will go down during this period unless your humidity is too low.
 
@hemmy , @pandacular @Cadillactaste @rockm @Shibui

Do any of you have any reliant source of lowest night temperature hardiness on these plants that I have or just general websites?
I've been struggling real hard to find information about how far down the temps can go before I have to get certain trees indoors and when I finally find some information you find another website which recommends something else with a 10c temperature difference.

Sorry for tagging y'all but you've all been so helpful :-)
 
@hemmy , @pandacular @Cadillactaste @rockm @Shibui

Do any of you have any reliant source of lowest night temperature hardiness on these plants that I have or just general websites?
I've been struggling real hard to find information about how far down the temps can go before I have to get certain trees indoors and when I finally find some information you find another website which recommends something else with a 10c temperature difference.

Sorry for tagging y'all but you've all been so helpful :)
Typically, tropical bonsai hobbyists use about 50-55 F as the cut off to bring tropical species inside. I've seen some growers go as low as 40 with some species, but depending on outdoor conditions, frost might be a danger even at 40 F, particularly in areas open to the sky. The elm doesn't care.
 
You're right lots of conflicting info.. and don't forget most of the rated temps are for plants in the ground.
On a recent search Portulacaria afra for instance is recommended not lower than 50 deg (f) but i find mine do great at 40-45 deg, they even look really good, better than inside. Outside is more humid than in the house plus fresh air and plants like that. In the spring except for the Ports, which I wait until 45 deg, I wait until 60 or above at night for Ficus and Brazillian Rain Trees.
But as a rule of thumb when temps start dipping to 55 or lower for many hours bring the tender/Tropicals in. it's actually the average daily temp that is important, if it's 80 during the day and 55 for only a few hours at night I would not worry about it. I have Orchids that I leave outside down to 38 Deg (f). As I said above windchill is the big problem unless protected from that.
 
a lot of people will tell beginners that elms can grow inside not because it's a good idea, but because it's a good way to sell trees. it's so pervasive that when sussing out a seller I haven't bought from, I'll often pick up an elm or juniper and ask if it can be grown inside. If give me an unmitigated yes, I run.
 
Should I repot my newly bought sageretia and Chinese elm now or wait until spring with both of them? Right now their in a rather airy but somewhat normal composting soil
 
Should I repot my newly bought sageretia and Chinese elm now or wait until spring with both of them? Right now their in a rather airy but somewhat normal composting soil
Sageretia probably now. Wait til spring on the elm. As a rule of thumb, Mid summer is a great time to repot tropical bonsai. Early spring is best for temperate zone deciduous trees (and early to mid-spring for conifers)
 
ok
Sageretia probably now. Wait til spring on the elm. As a rule of thumb, Mid summer is a great time to repot tropical bonsai. Early spring is best for temperate zone deciduous trees (and early to mid-spring for conifers)
And is a mix of akadama and pumice alongside some composting soil (maybe even perlite?) a good mix for it?

And should the elm just be outside all the time and when temperature go below 0c just bury it in a pot like an earlier comment mentioned?
 
Typically, tropical bonsai hobbyists use about 50-55 F as the cut off to bring tropical species inside. I've seen some growers go as low as 40 with some species, but depending on outdoor conditions, frost might be a danger even at 40 F, particularly in areas open to the sky. The elm doesn't care.
For tropical...yeah 55 and I'm dancing. If one recently repotted...I don't allow below 68F. As I'm the one to prefer caution than risk my bipolar lake front Temps to not drop more. I've a sensor with alarm. But would prefer not to be woke in the wee hours of the morning to dance a recently repotted tree. Sleep trumps leave it and risk being woke up. I don't sleep much anyways...what little I get. I want to get in. I know...my Temps can fluctuate dramatically from forecasted temps.
 
ok

And is a mix of akadama and pumice alongside some composting soil (maybe even perlite?) a good mix for it?

And should the elm just be outside all the time and when temperature go below 0c just bury it in a pot like an earlier comment mentioned?
Don't know what you mean by "composting soil" Sounds organic which can be a problem, particularly if the soil is very fine and turns into mud when wet. Most bonsai ists avoid such organic ingredients in their mixes in favor of chunkier more durable organics such as composted pine bark mulch or baby orchid bark.

Once temps get below 32 CONSISTENTLY (as in late Nov.), the tree should be under the mulch. A few shallow freezes that stay above 25 F for a couple of nights isn't going to hurt it, may even be beneficial.
 
Don't know what you mean by "composting soil" Sounds organic which can be a problem, particularly if the soil is very fine and turns into mud when wet. Most bonsai ists avoid such organic ingredients in their mixes in favor of chunkier more durable organics such as composted pine bark mulch or baby orchid bark.

Once temps get below 32 CONSISTENTLY (as in late Nov.), the tree should be under the mulch. A few shallow freezes that stay above 25 F for a couple of nights isn't going to hurt it, may even be beneficial.
What I meant is an organic soil which doesn't necessarily turn into mud but it definitely more muddy than not. But is my mix of akadama and pumice good enough for sageretia? Or should I mix in something else and what ratios?

Ok, then I'll let my chinese elm be outdoors by itself until it's consistently 0c (32f) and then bury it in a pot with mulch on the top and normal organic soil on the sides? I think I'll bubble wrap it and put it close to the apartment building on my balcony.
Can the branches and trunk be exposed or should I wrap something over/around it as well? It's usually between -1 and -8 during the nights but it happened last year that we had a week of -16c~
 
What I meant is an organic soil which doesn't necessarily turn into mud but it definitely more muddy than not. But is my mix of akadama and pumice good enough for sageretia? Or should I mix in something else and what ratios?

Ok, then I'll let my chinese elm be outdoors by itself until it's consistently 0c (32f) and then bury it in a pot with mulch on the top and normal organic soil on the sides? I think I'll bubble wrap it and put it close to the apartment building on my balcony.
Can the branches and trunk be exposed or should I wrap something over/around it as well? It's usually between -1 and -8 during the nights but it happened last year that we had a week of -16c~
Bubble wrap is useless, mostly. Plastic is a very bad insulator and temps will fluctuate wildly with such covering. There is no temperature "lag" with it.

Wood mulch, preferably the shredded (not nugget) variety is good. Putting deciduous trees into winter storage can be a pretty variable thing. It's not an exact science. I usually go with putting mine under mulch the day after Thanksgiving (Nov. 25th), BUT if we get nighttime lows approaching 20 or below before then, which has been happening with more frequency these days, I bring trees inside the basement until the coldest temps move on. That can take a day or two.

DO NOT USE ORGANIC SOIL AROUND THE SIDES of the elm outside. You will wind up with a solid chunk of ice that is impervious to water, as well as a busted pot from expansion over the winter. You want something more porous around the pot, like wood mulch, that drains and has air spaces.
 
Bubble wrap is useless, mostly. Plastic is a very bad insulator and temps will fluctuate wildly with such covering. There is no temperature "lag" with it.

Wood mulch, preferably the shredded (not nugget) variety is good. Putting deciduous trees into winter storage can be a pretty variable thing. It's not an exact science. I usually go with putting mine under mulch the day after Thanksgiving (Nov. 25th), BUT if we get nighttime lows approaching 20 or below before then, which has been happening with more frequency these days, I bring trees inside the basement until the coldest temps move on. That can take a day or two.

DO NOT USE ORGANIC SOIL AROUND THE SIDES of the elm outside. You will wind up with a solid chunk of ice that is impervious to water, as well as a busted pot from expansion over the winter. You want something more porous around the pot, like wood mulch, that drains and has air spaces.
I see. I’m not sure how wood mulch will keep the Chinese elm alive considering if the average temp is -15c for a week I’m pretty sure if it’s not on/in the ground it’s gonna be -15c inside the pot as well?

I live in an apartment with access to balcony solely, got no garden or such. I have a storage in the basement but it’s heated somewhat so it’s probably at least close to +20c.
 
a corollary to this thread that I don't believe has been brought up: often, we must work within the constraints of our environment when it comes to species selection.
 
I see. I’m not sure how wood mulch will keep the Chinese elm alive considering if the average temp is -15c for a week I’m pretty sure if it’s not on/in the ground it’s gonna be -15c inside the pot as well?

I live in an apartment with access to balcony solely, got no garden or such. I have a storage in the basement but it’s heated somewhat so it’s probably at least close to +20c.
You said you have a Japanese Maple out there? Is it in a pot? If it's lived through a winter or three, it shows what's possible. Elm isn't that different.

What you're trying to do with the mulch is lag extreme temperatures from getting to your tree's roots for long periods...using ambient "heat" from the mulch and surroundings. Placing the pot up against the exterior wall will help with that.
 
I have let my tropical's see some 40's outside but they're up close to the house. They seem to have a lot less leaf drop than when I move them in earlier.
 
Back
Top Bottom