Mycorrhiza

gjantzer said:
Who is promising a miracle?
Sure myco will happen naturally. People add the myco spores to speed up the growth of the mycelium so the plant can absorb nutrients more quickly (and not wait for nature to eventually reach a critical mass of myco). Disease resistance is an added benefit. That $20 bottle will literally do 100 plants. $.20 a plant is too much to spend for a healthier, faster growing plant? It works and it is cheap. I'm not claiming you're ignorant, I just believe that your perception of the cost and value of adding myco spores is incorrect.
Click to expand...

Oh, c'mon, the "is that too much to spend for a healthier, faster growing plant" and the "$20 bottle will do a 100 plants" stuff could be lifted from any hard sell marketing campaign. The first is a false statement meant to instill guilt in a buyer and coax the $ out of their pocket. The second deflects from the rather high price tag on the stuff.

It smells an awful lot like the hype that goes with this
http://www.superthrive.com/

My trees are already healthy and fast growing, and I don't doubt that many other people's are without buying this stuff. I also don't doubt that people who may be buying it already have it in their bonsai pots.
 
And.....who wants that nasty looking shit in their soil anyway?

It may help roots take up nutrients.....
But if the water can't get to the roots....
Neither can the nutrients.

If I spend $20 on a gram of something....
I'm smoking it.

Sorce
 
fredman said:
Interesting. I like that. That is food for the micro organisms (not so much the mycorrhizae) right? I use worm tea from my worm farm to feed the micro organisms...
Click to expand...

Probably both, but mainly to feed the mycorrhizae, the idea is to feed the myc directly with carbs so they don't have to draw from a weak tree, like a newly collected tree, also they may colonize the pot faster.
That's the idea, no promises that it is actually a good idea.
 
rockm said:
Oh, c'mon, the "is that too much to spend for a healthier, faster growing plant" and the "$20 bottle will do a 100 plants" stuff could be lifted from any hard sell marketing campaign. The first is a false statement meant to instill guilt in a buyer and coax the $ out of their pocket. The second deflects from the rather high price tag on the stuff.

It smells an awful lot like the hype that goes with this
http://www.superthrive.com/

My trees are already healthy and fast growing, and I don't doubt that many other people's are without buying this stuff. I also don't doubt that people who may be buying it already have it in their bonsai pots.
Click to expand...

LOL
 
In some elm seedlings I dug I found nodules on the roots. A sign of nitrogen fixing bacteria. The seedling came from a neighbor's tree that probably has been there several decades before I was born. I've never seen any of these nodules of symbiotic relations on my catlin or seiju elm. A lot of these fungi and bacteria probably require a specific environment to thrive in. Also interesting article wireme. I used the google translate function to read it and it was pretty informative.
 
Well,I've made up my mind.I am not going to use this product anymore.
One of the reasons to use akadama this season was to get the benefit of an open soil that slowly softens up throughout the season as roots grow.
This mycorrhiza makes the soil too dense before any of this happens.
Totally not into it.
 
cmeg1 said:
Well,I've made up my mind.I am not going to use this product anymore.
One of the reasons to use akadama this season was to get the benefit of an open soil that slowly softens up throughout the season as roots grow.
This mycorrhiza makes the soil too dense before any of this happens.
Totally not into it.
Click to expand...
You think lighter applications would work or is it just no good?
 
Well.It only seems to work in aerated soils.I used it before in potting soil and I never seen anything like this.
So I just wanted everyone to know if using this in bonsai soil it should have at least 50% pumice or other drainage material.
It just slows drainage.It is not like my soil is compacted or anything or the akadama broken down yet,so the few pots that have this should be ok.
I just want the benefit of akadama unhindered.I like pure akadama in my shallow smaller pots.I don't like how the product fills up the air spaces so early on after re-potting with mycelium that a maple or elm does not use anyway,as they use the endo type mycorrhiza from what I read.
 
cmeg1 said:
Well.It only seems to work in aerated soils.I used it before in potting soil and I never seen anything like this.
So I just wanted everyone to know if using this in bonsai soil it should have at least 50% pumice or other drainage material.
It just slows drainage.It is not like my soil is compacted or anything or the akadama broken down yet,so the few pots that have this should be ok.
I just want the benefit of akadama unhindered.I like pure akadama in my shallow smaller pots.I don't like how the product fills up the air spaces so early on after re-potting with mycelium that a maple or elm does not use anyway,as they use the endo type mycorrhiza from what I read.
Click to expand...

Endo myco form the symbiotic relationship with the roots inside the root, but the mycelium still extends outside the root. You get mycelium with endo and ecto myco. With the ecto there is a tendency of the myco to "coat" the roots in addition to the mycelium so if you had a trained eye you could likely tell the difference with a close inspection. In my opinion your tree would be ready for a repot well before the myco was hindering drainage substantially.
 
C'mon, drink the cool aide...;-)
 
Funny how a guy that knows so little about myco is so dead set against it. I encourage the rest of you to study up on the benefits of myco and give it a try for yourself.
 
I haven't read the whole thread and probably won't as I'm pressed for time. I just wanted to mention that, in the artificial environment of a pot full of roots and soil that has ferts and water applied to it routinely, the benefits of fungal activity are likely to be minor at best, or so I've read. Carry on.
 
Dav4 said:
minor at best,
Click to expand...

And A major detriment at worst.

I don't think Adair innoculated that HBR pine. And the white was perfect.

I don't think anyone is against it.

But against buying it...oh yeah!

Then again...I'll drink water out of a river with a dead skunk right upstream before I pay for bottled water too!

You can buy decent coke for cheaper than that shit...if you know a guy!

Sorce
 
Adair M said:
Here is a picture of a tree I started repotting, then realized what was going on with the mychorazzae:

View attachment 99886

This tree had been half bare rooted the previous year. That's the white half. The soil was Boon Mix, and the mychorazzae exploded!

The dark half was the old soul. There's some mychorazzae in there, but nothing like the bottom half!

Anyway, I removed the old dark soil and replaced with Boon Mix and put it in a bonsai pot.

Boon doesn't add mychorazzae to his trees. The spores are in the air. If the conditions are right, it will grow.
Click to expand...

Nice demo, but really, how much myco does a root system need? Can there be too much of a good thing...

I've mentioned this on here before, but there was never really much discussion. Over the few (5) years I've been doing bonsai, I've had a few trees where there seemed to be an explosion of some type of fungus in the soil mix. I don't know if it was a type of beneficial myco gone wild, or some other kind of opportunistic fungus taking advantage of conditions in the container. This has occurred mostly in conifers (Scots pine was one), in mostly inorganic bonsai soil. Whatever it was created a dense webbing in the soil, almost like spider webs and it definitely interfered with water passage/drainage. There was no evidence of insects (root aphids), the stuff was white/grey in color.

I've never applied bottled myco of any type.

A few years ago, at one of Bill V's symposiums, I was talking to Dave Degroot and the subject came up. He said he'd had similar experiences with an over-abundance of some type of fungus in the soil of some of his plants. He didn't know what it was but it definitely was affecting drainage in a negative way.

Anyway, that's about all I have to say. Never have used any of these products, always have myco in the pots, sometimes have too much. I'd be very leery of applying something like this when myco pretty much colonize the pots naturally, especially if you save and add some of the old soil mix back into the container when repotting.
 
gjantzer said:
Funny how a guy that knows so little about myco is so dead set against it. I encourage the rest of you to study up on the benefits of myco and give it a try for yourself.
Click to expand...

Funny how arrogance can make people blind. I have written repeatedly that I am not dead set against Myc. I question the need to purchase additives that cost an arm and a leg. Do you sell this stuff? I mean you sound like a marketing automaton.

FWIW there Mr. Roboto, I have tried it. A while ago, I compared it with a tray of untreated saplings from the same batch of cuttings. Didn't make much difference in growth or health. Definitely not worth $20. Rather spend it on ferts like Green Kind and Biol Gold that support microbial growth in the soil and allow things to go from there. Oh and Domo Arigato for the heaping helping of condescension.
 
coh said:
Nice demo, but really, how much myco does a root system need? Can there be too much of a good thing...

I've mentioned this on here before, but there was never really much discussion. Over the few (5) years I've been doing bonsai, I've had a few trees where there seemed to be an explosion of some type of fungus in the soil mix. I don't know if it was a type of beneficial myco gone wild, or some other kind of opportunistic fungus taking advantage of conditions in the container. This has occurred mostly in conifers (Scots pine was one), in mostly inorganic bonsai soil. Whatever it was created a dense webbing in the soil, almost like spider webs and it definitely interfered with water passage/drainage. There was no evidence of insects (root aphids), the stuff was white/grey in color.

I've never applied bottled myco of any type.

A few years ago, at one of Bill V's symposiums, I was talking to Dave Degroot and the subject came up. He said he'd had similar experiences with an over-abundance of some type of fungus in the soil of some of his plants. He didn't know what it was but it definitely was affecting drainage in a negative way.

Anyway, that's about all I have to say. Never have used any of these products, always have myco in the pots, sometimes have too much. I'd be very leery of applying something like this when myco pretty much colonize the pots naturally, especially if you save and add some of the old soil mix back into the container when repotting.
Click to expand...
I have a few trees that are perhaps over colonized. Mixes of 1/2" pumice and lava they literally look like a block of styrofoam. I don't find that it inhibits drainage, they drain quickly once saturated but the moisture retention is way higher and it takes more water before it starts to flow out the holes. I water them a little differently, daily waterings I pass over them more quickly than other trees and once or twice a week depending on weather I drench them thoroughly.
 
Dennis DeYoung ruined this once great R&B band,(back when it actually meant "rhythm & blues" with, ya know, instruments!!):confused:
Who can forget Tommy Shaw's classic line to explain the fracture in the group, "I got tired singing about f#@kn robots!!":mad:

Plenty of myco in that hairdo though! DeYoung always had that going!:p:eek:
 
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