My neglected Trident: Hopeless or Hopeful?

[pandacular]

Personally, I would treat this as a practice tree to try things out on. Go hard on the roots—lots of grafting, a ground layer, or just chopping the roots to stubs and planting it deep to see what happen—air layer a few trees off it, just generally try techniques that you don’t want to get wrong doing it the first time on a tree that is more beautiful.

 

[Shibui]

Chop the trunk at no more than a 45° angle from horizontal, just above the first branch. Based on the photos, you should be able to completely remove the bulging section of the tree, but keep a live branch near the chop location to keep the sap flowing and mitigate the risk of dieback.

Chop above the first branch can often improve a tree with problems.
In this case I'm not so sure:

• That lowest branch is horizontal so not much use as a new leader. It is probably too stiff to bend up to give a better line for new trunk. If you attempt to bend it will likely just snap off. Tridents will usually produce clusters of new buds close to a chop site so maybe one of those might become a new leader heading in a better direction.
• I can't see any existing branches that would be a possible candidate for new leader.
• I also can't see that chop removing all the swelling and leaving the lower branch. It appears to be growing from part of the bulge so I can't see any chop that would remove the bulge but leave the branch.
• Experience is, that when chopping through or close to bulges like this the callus growing over the wound will also bulge, often even more than the original so the problem gets worse rather than better.

Happy to see any examples that show I'm wrong on any of these points though.

 

[bonsaiwood]

Personally, I would treat this as a practice tree to try things out on. Go hard on the roots—lots of grafting, a ground layer, or just chopping the roots to stubs and planting it deep to see what happen—air layer a few trees off it, just generally try techniques that you don’t want to get wrong doing it the first time on a tree that is more beautiful.

Thanks Panda.. my short term objective with this tree appears clear now ... prune hard at the ugly, plant it deep, keep it alive, wait for strong roots to appear ... If it responds well, then I'll keep developing it from there and will continue to post updates ... If it fails, there is still value to be had in the experience of working with it.

I appreciate all the useful feedback from the folks who chimed in.

 

[bonsaiwood]

After closely inspecting the base and seeing plenty of downward roots below, I went ahead and hacked back the large knobby roots to the trunk. Left some wood on them to see if any roots grow from these points.









Brown lines indicate the depth at which I plan to bury the tree in substrate.

It has been soaking in water for about 18 hours. Next step is to carefully clean up the rootball a little more. I'm going to be safe by not completely bare rooting it this time around considering the amount of root loss in one go.

 

[Shibui]

Good work so far.

Next step is to carefully clean up the rootball a little more. I'm going to be safe by not completely bare rooting it this time around considering the amount of root loss in one go.

I would consider this minor root loss for Trident maple but you need to be comfortable and there's no real need to go harder because you want the roots that grow above the current root mass.
Also bare root is no problem for trident.
New roots will soon grow from the cuts where you removed those roots. On one side that should give a pretty good root spread but the other side has some big space between cuts where roots may emerge but will be slower than from the cuts. I'd be tempted to cut through the bark to expose some more cambium on that side which should get more roots growing quicker in that area.

 

[bonsaiwood]

On one side that should give a pretty good root spread but the other side has some big space between cuts where roots may emerge but will be slower than from the cuts.

I too have a feeling the side with more tightly spaced cuts may give off more roots than the side with less cuts.

I'd be tempted to cut through the bark to expose some more cambium on that side which should get more roots growing quicker in that area.

I went ahead and peeled away small sections of bark to the cambium layer on that smoother side where I want more roots to grow. I was so focused on the work that I forgot to photo this step.

I then cleaned up more of the root mass, removing large crossing roots and keeping finer straight roots which should help sustain the tree. It is now in a nursery grow pot with the new soil covering all the cuts. I could not get my hands on a fiber grow bag in time for this project but no matter, this will do.

 

[Gabler]

I was so focused on the work that I forgot to photo this step.

I've been doing that a lot lately.

 

[Dabbler]

I've been doing that a lot lately.

me too!

 

[bwaynef]

I would've airlayered off the top and abandoned the base. Now that you've done initial work to improve the base, it may warrant keeping. The real value in this tree is the tree sitting at the top though. It is worth the effort to airlayer it.

 

[bonsaiwood]

I would've airlayered off the top and abandoned the base. Now that you've done initial work to improve the base, it may warrant keeping. The real value in this tree is the tree sitting at the top though. It is worth the effort to airlayer it.

As beaten and scarred the top appears, absolutely there is value to it. The next step is to get the tree growing strong and vigorous again before air layering the top. We will see how the roots look in about a year.

 

[bwaynef]

I think you can work on both at the same time.

 

[bonsaiwood]

I think you can work on both at the same time.

I sure could. However, I'm going to err on the side of caution and let patience have its way. If the result is anything but acceptable, then I'll accept my failure.

 

[bonsaiwood]

September update on my neglected trident.

Nice burst of green this summer. Feeding osmocote combined with a little Miracle Gro for some added nitrogen.



I checked for roots near the base and I see lots of feeders just below the soil. There’s a glimmer of hope for this tree

 

[gooeytek]

Have you checked the hippo side where the roots were pruned? Is it rooting from those nubs?

 

[Dabbler]

almost looks like harry potter whomping willow

 

[bonsaiwood]

Have you checked the hippo side where the roots were pruned? Is it rooting from those nubs?

I have not checked the other side. Thinking it would be best to leave it be to avoid disturbing the fine feeder roots. I will give it a better look at repot and update to go with.

 

[bray]

I have little experience with tridents so I could be wrong. Something to think about.
Find that lowest shoot you can (ideally below the rough stuff at the bulge) let it grow and keep the rest of the green puned back. This could develop as a new temporary leader and you can chop at the temporary leader next year and when you do maybe you will get new buds below the chop to choose as a new leader. Or graft a new leader below if the chop does not get low buds while the temporary leader keeps the tree growing.

 

[bonsaiwood]

Seeing this will tree will never amount to anything respectable, might as well air layer the tree and try to utilize the top portion with young shoots.








Wires will go on next to put some bends on the young shoots.
Unless some miracle buds decide to pop below the future chop point, I may scrap the bottom altogether.

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

Stick with it

Thread 'Sumo Trident Progression'

Nov 12, 2021

I bought this small leaf trident maple stump from Jim Doyle at Natures Way Nursery in PA back in 2018. I was newly into the hobby, and decided to chop the leader for taper. I layered too low, and didn’t really improve the quality of the tree (just the nebari). A few seasons later in 2020, @MACH5 saw the tree at my place and thought the top would make a nice sumo shohin or a clump style. Knowing better than to argue with a master, I took the top of this tree from a gnarly mess (that needed chopping anyway) to a really powerful small tree!

Basic structure was set by Sergio in the...

• Tidal Bonsai
• Replies: 29
• Forum: Maples

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[Cadillactaste]

That's where I would have taken it. Good direction.

I would hold off on wire allow it to grow roots unrestricted. You'll have time for a design later.