Mirai blog on watering

[rockm]

A great blog post by Mirai on watering and why it can be so hard to master

Summer Watering

A shift in thinkingWatering is the most fundamental and crucial technique to master in cultivating bonsai. Unfortunately, it is also one of the most elusive and misunderstood, with a copious amount of confounding advice out there about when and why we water.

bonsaimirai.com

 

[Gabler]

That stands in sharp contrast with the usual advice I see: “Use an open, free-draining substrate and water constantly.” I’m not sure how to reconcile that information.

I’ll be watching to see what the more experienced members have to say on the matter.

 

[Colorado]

Good article. But this is the most critical point in my opinion:

“With all that understanding, we are still left to navigate the unclear nuances of knowing when your tree needs water. How do we tell that our tree has a good balance of water and oxygen in the container; how do we walk that line between watering too much or too little?”

There is a certain degree of gestalt required. It is impossible to articulate. I think it just comes with experience and spending time with the trees.

 

[Maiden69]

That stands in sharp contrast with the usual advice I see: “Use an open, free-draining substrate and water constantly.” I’m not sure how to reconcile that information.

I’ll be watching to see what the more experienced members have to say on the matter.

I think that this depends on the soil you are using. If you are using akadama as Ryan is, the scaling of the particles would reach a point where if not watered properly, they will hold too much water, and if not watered enough they will stay too dry. This is one of the conundrums of akadama. As Ryan has stated, one of the greatest benefits and worst qualities at the same time.

If you read Walter Pall's posts, he water his trees often, but he don't use akadama, and I'm sure most of the guys that use anything else not organic could do the same thing. Right now all my trees in Root Pouch bags are getting watered 3 times a day, they are on all inorganic soil, Bonsai Jack Monto Clay and Bonsai Block most of them, others have some added pumice. I have yet to see any overwatering sign, even on my JBP and junipers. I'm sure once I start moving trees into development and using akadama I will have to adjust my watering schedule once the tree starts to overcrowd the pot with roots.

 

[Kanorin]

That stands in sharp contrast with the usual advice I see: “Use an open, free-draining substrate and water constantly.” I’m not sure how to reconcile that information.

I’ll be watching to see what the more experienced members have to say on the matter.

I've definitely heard the bold part, but not the second clause. There's probably a biological reason that most species of trees don't grow in the middle of shallow lakes and streams (not enough oxygen for the roots to survive).

 

[Tieball]

I’ve not had a problem of over watering or under watering. I simply know my trees and water when needed. I has worked well. I don’t subscribe to a lot of complexity around watering….or other routine requirements. I keep it simple.

 

[bonsaichile]

I’ve not had a problem of over watering or under watering. I simply know my trees and water when needed. I has worked well. I don’t subscribe to a lot of complexity around watering….or other routine requirements. I keep it simple.

I tend to agree with this. I use inorganic substrates, almost never clay (fired or otherwise). I water every day, at noon. My trees seem to be doing just fine.

 

[BonsaiDTLA]

I think it just comes with experience and spending time with the trees.

Yes, this! I wholeheartedly agree

 

[Tieball]

I tend to agree with this. I use inorganic substrates, almost never clay (fired or otherwise). I water every day, at noon. My trees seem to be doing just fine.

Similar for me. I water when I’m out and ready and usually anytime between noon and five o’clock.

 

[rockm]

That stands in sharp contrast with the usual advice I see: “Use an open, free-draining substrate and water constantly.” I’m not sure how to reconcile that information.

I’ll be watching to see what the more experienced members have to say on the matter.

There is no need to reconcile. It's not counterintuitive. watering has never been "water all the time" It's always been water when the tree needs it. THat is what to learn.

 

[MaciekA]

The loss of moisture in a pot isn’t ethereal, it’s tangible and measurable. It’s directly observable.

It is also drier quicker at exposed surfaces (all other things equal) than interior regions, and drier at the top than at the middle or bottom, hydrophobic cores notwithstanding.

Moisture leaves a pot faster when a tree has more foliage, when the volume of the soil is more thoroughly filled with roots, when the column of soil is taller, etc etc. Many of these variables are in constant shift.

When I see or hear “watering is the hardest thing in bonsai” for me it doesn’t translate into “watering is a mystery” it translates to “watering is a lot of work because you must check every pot with your hand, take into account foliage, roots, and upcoming weather”. In other words, watering is straightforward, but toil-heavy.

Visit a garden like Hagedorn’s and follow Carmen when she waters and you see that she inspects every tree— yes, sometimes at a glance from sheer force of daily experience , but every tree is evaluated as stated above, in anticipation of or feedback from the interaction of photosynthesis, evaporation, and weather.

This is why “free draining substrate then set it and forget it” ultimately bites you — mindless watering has certainly bit me. If there are too many trees to check carefully for moisture status, then there are simply too many trees in the garden.

 

[rockm]

I’ve not had a problem of over watering or under watering. I simply know my trees and water when needed. I has worked well. I don’t subscribe to a lot of complexity around watering….or other routine requirements. I keep it simple.

Uh, the "I know it when I see it" thing is an extremely complex thing...hardly simple, tell a beginner that's how to water and see if they kill their tree...

 

[August]

Uh, the "I know it when I see it" thing is an extremely complex thing...hardly simple, tell a beginner that's how to water and see if they kill their tree...

I am having a bit of an issue with the "watering has never been a problem for me" posts. Not very helpful at all, nor does it advance the discussion.

 

[Baku1875]

I think that this depends on the soil you are using. If you are using akadama as Ryan is, the scaling of the particles would reach a point where if not watered properly, they will hold too much water, and if not watered enough they will stay too dry. This is one of the conundrums of akadama. As Ryan has stated, one of the greatest benefits and worst qualities at the same time.

If you read Walter Pall's posts, he water his trees often, but he don't use akadama, and I'm sure most of the guys that use anything else not organic could do the same thing. Right now all my trees in Root Pouch bags are getting watered 3 times a day, they are on all inorganic soil, Bonsai Jack Monto Clay and Bonsai Block most of them, others have some added pumice. I have yet to see any overwatering sign, even on my JBP and junipers. I'm sure once I start moving trees into development and using akadama I will have to adjust my watering schedule once the tree starts to overcrowd the pot with roots.

This right here. Akadama can be super water retentive, and overwatering can become an issue especially with finer particles. I stopped using it due to to rain and humidity risk in my area making it difficult to fine tune my watering.

Like Neil mentions in the blog, watering requires an acre by acre approach, and any opinion on watering needs to include soil composition, total foliar mass, regional climate, seasonal biodynamics of the tree, and seasonal conditions.

Excellent seasonal update from Ryan with important elements of horticultural logic.
This lines up with Jonas Dupuich's lecture on conifers and a recent study on growth rates of foliage vs roots. If anyone can find the source, I would love to read it, ive searched for h.h. witt, lvg bad zwischenahn, but havent found the source study yet.

The compilation of so much excellent scientific and experience based info from bonsai practitioners these days is fantastic stuff. As much as folks complain about how 'bad' things are these days, we are definitely in a golden age of information exchange for those who seek it.

 

[Maiden69]

Visit a garden like Hagedorn’s and follow Carmen when she waters and you see that she inspects every tree— yes, sometimes at a glance from sheer force of daily experience , but every tree is evaluated as stated above, in anticipation of or feedback from the interaction of photosynthesis, evaporation, and weather.

The thing is that most of us here, unless retired, have no chance of doing this. So we rely on automated systems, friends and family, or just luck when it comes to watering the trees. There is no way I am going to be able to go home every few hours (a 30 min drive from work) to glance at the trees to water the ones that need it. I have a system that can run multiple zones that I plan on setting up by amount of watering needed. That way I can run one zone for 2x 3min, and another 3x 2min, and a separate for the in-ground, etc... I don't see any shortcoming now, since most of my trees are in baby stages, but it will certainly need to be tweaked for someone with a lot of trees in different stages of development.

 

[bonsaichile]

I am having a bit of an issue with the "watering has never been a problem for me" posts. Not very helpful at all, nor does it advance the discussion.

Things do not need to be that complicated. I think Ryan Neil likes to complicate things more than necessary, giving a veneer of "scientificism" to his explanations. Don't get me wrong, I deeply admire his trees, his artistry and his craftmanship. I just don't always buy his explanations as to what he does what he does. In any case, I have been following more the Walter Pall school of thought with regards of watering: If you use a fast draining, mostly inorganic substrate, you should water often and wet the whole plant. You should also fertilize accordingly, being aware that in this kind of substrate, fertilizer does get washed off with every watering. Now, that does not mean one doesn't evaluate each tree, but it is also true that an open, inorganic substrate makes it very difficult to overwater. The risk lays, in my opinion, in underwatering when you use this kind of substrate.

 

[rockm]

The loss of moisture in a pot isn’t ethereal, it’s tangible and measurable. It’s directly observable.

It is also drier quicker at exposed surfaces (all other things equal) than interior regions, and drier at the top than at the middle or bottom, hydrophobic cores notwithstanding.

Moisture leaves a pot faster when a tree has more foliage, when the volume of the soil is more thoroughly filled with roots, when the column of soil is taller, etc etc. Many of these variables are in constant shift.

When I see or hear “watering is the hardest thing in bonsai” for me it doesn’t translate into “watering is a mystery” it translates to “watering is a lot of work because you must check every pot with your hand, take into account foliage, roots, and upcoming weather”. In other words, watering is straightforward, but toil-heavy.

Visit a garden like Hagedorn’s and follow Carmen when she waters and you see that she inspects every tree— yes, sometimes at a glance from sheer force of daily experience , but every tree is evaluated as stated above, in anticipation of or feedback from the interaction of photosynthesis, evaporation, and weather.

This is why “free draining substrate then set it and forget it” ultimately bites you — mindless watering has certainly bit me. If there are too many trees to check carefully for moisture status, then there are simply too many trees in the garden.

"When I see or hear “watering is the hardest thing in bonsai” for me it doesn’t translate into “watering is a mystery” it translates to “watering is a lot of work because you must check every pot with your hand, take into account foliage, roots, and upcoming weather”. In other words, watering is straightforward, but toil-heavy."

Yep. It's work. You can't learn if you don't put in an effort to observe and hand check trees. That effort lessens when you begin to understand the signs trees need water. Even then, they can be occasionally deceptive in some circumstances.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

As you may know, I had terrible problems with akadama. I have moved to more pumice with VERY minimal aka just for the extra retentive properties of the stuff. I mean VERY little.
I made a mixture of potting soil and small (not fine) pumice.
I.... s p r i n k l e......it into the mix as I prep the soil. Like pepper. Not gobs. Just sprinkling. Theory being that it can ...add... a bit of water adhesion to whaterever coarse mix I make.
Since starting this, growth has been faster and more dense and ramified.
It's even ....seeming.... to create smaller leaves. ????
If I make a mistake and use too much lava, I dig out a corner (or 2,3,4 corners) and put some of my "secret" pottimice in the space and let the roots seek it out. Can avoid a complete remedial repot that way.

And I don't water LATE afternoon or evening.

 

[Dav4]

Other things to consider other than species, soil type, etc. is location and micro climate. Who would believe that when I lived in North, Georgia, where average temperatures in June, July, and August are in the upper 80s or higher every day, I only needed to water once in the morning. Now that I’m up in Michigan, I’m watering twice daily right now, though those twice a day watering’s, will likely drop to once a day once it warms up a bit more and becomes more consistently, humid, likely in July. Turns out ambient humidity and sun exposure plays a huge role in the water needs of your plants. High humidity is a given down south, but not as much up in the north. Throw in more sunlight and consistent breezy conditions and your water needs literally double during certain times of the year.

Ultimately, I fall into the camp of “if in doubt , water”.

 

[BrightsideB]

I am curious about the probes that check ph/water moisture and if anyone has experience of there effectiveness in bonsai containers. Also I was looking and see that there are sensors that can check oxygen levels in soil. I know the tree can show us it’s health and that alone indicates a lot. But I was curious if these sensors have been used by anyone and their experience with them?