Memorial cork bark JBP

[petegreg]

No more than wiring. It's all part of the illusion, and if you don't think the pros have some tricks, I have a bridge to sell.

Thanks, I know and agree bonsai is all about illusion, making small copies... So another one of acceptable cheatings learnt. I appreciate your response.

 

[markyscott]

I have finally found a 1979 copy of International Bonsai Magazine that has a table of characteristics to help identify corkers. I can email a scan to you if you want.

From my experience, Kyokko Yatsubusa has white buds, and my Taihei from Dave has red buds. I cared for a corker JBP our club owned since the early 1980s, and the needle length, shape, and bark pattern/color looks a lot like yours. I had it guessed as 'Aka Me'. But it's a guess.

Hi Brian - Got around to checking the reference you mentioned. There was an article in the Winter 1979 article focussing on Kyokko: Valavanis, W., Plant Profile Kyokko - Nishiki Black Pine, International Bonsai V1, N4. There was another really good IB reference in the Winter 1980 article: Okimoto, T., 1980, Nishiki Black Pine Special Features and Varieties, International Bonsai, V2, N4. I also checked Pilacik, S., 1993, Japanese Black Pine, pp 46 which also has a discussion of JBP cultivars. Pilacik's book references "Dwarf Conifers" by Brooklyn Botanical Gardens - I'll have to look for that.

Anyway, the latter two references provide a short description of a bunch of different cultivars. Pilacik's book doesn't describe the bud colors of Kyokko, but the two IB references describe them as white as you suggested. So I'll amend my notes - I must have wrote that down wrong.

I checked the description of Taihei in the IB Winter 1980 article and it described the bud colors as white on that variety also. Palicik's book did not mention Taihei bud color.

There is a great table on pg 14 of the Winter 1980 IB article. The only nishiki variety described as having both red buds and long, dark green needles included was 'Kaizan'. 'Aka Me' and 'Senryu' are described as having deep-green needles, but their length is not listed.

'Kaizan' only appears in the table in the IB article and Pilacik's book has following rather unbecoming description of the variety: "Average variety for bonsai culture; nothing exceptional, nothing unsightly".

'Aka Me' is described in more detail. In the IB article it mentions that the variety was produced in large quantities for commercial-grade bonsai in Japan. In Pilacik's book it mentions that there is a yatsubusa variety of 'Aka Me' and mentions that the name means it's a cross between JRP and JBP. Apparently there are a couple of additional sub-cultivars of 'Aka Me' as well.

For 'Senryu' the bark is described as having a reddish cast, something I haven't noticed on this tree.

So I'm going to guess 'Aka Me' on account of the red buds, deep-green needles and the prevalence of the variety. Kaizan is also a possibility.

What do you think?

Scott

 

[Potawatomi13]

Generally good looking tree but with such bad graft would pass on to someone else. Could possibly thread graft new seedlings to eliminate bad base?

 

[aml1014]

Generally good looking tree but with such bad graft would pass on to someone else. Could possibly thread graft new seedlings to eliminate bad base?

How do you thread graft a pine without pulling all the needles and killing the branch? I'm intrigued

Aaron

 

[augustine]

I like the tree and you did a great job wiring and styling. Beautiful pine.

 

[markyscott]

Generally good looking tree but with such bad graft would pass on to someone else. Could possibly thread graft new seedlings to eliminate bad base?

Hi Potawatomi13. It's just a feature of many cork bark pines. I've not known anyone to thread graft pines, but approach and detached scion grafting work well. I have about a 50% success rate on scion grafting and nearly 100% on approach grafting. I'm not sure what grafting will do in this case as the bark below the graft union is from rootstock that is just not of the corking variety. The time to properly graft it was when it was a seedling. What people do is they perform a detached scion graft of nishiki on a regular black pine seedling. They do this for a lot of reasons, but mainly to keep the corking true to the parent plant. Seeds from a corking parent may or may not cork and many of the varieties will not root or are often weak on their own roots. The trick is to graft very low - near the junction between the roots and the stem, but often you'll run into trees like this where the graft was much higher, leaving an apparent reverse taper because the scion produces a bunch of corking bark whereas the root stock does not. Alternatively, you can root a cutting and grow the variety on it's own roots. According to the IB article I referenced, Aka Me can take from cutting, but I've never tried and it's far more common to run into grafted material when you're dealing with cork bark trees.

Scott

 

[Adair M]

Generally good looking tree but with such bad graft would pass on to someone else. Could possibly thread graft new seedlings to eliminate bad base?

Pots, Corkers are somewhat "novelty" trees. They're grown because of the interesting bark. It's rare to have one that actually will conform to the usual bonsai aesthetics. The bark is so unpredictable. And the trees themselves are much weaker than "regular" JBP.

Scott's tree has better form than most I've seen.

I have a friend who has hundreds of them. Maybe two dozen different cultivars. Most have relatively high grafts. He's now making them with low grafts.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

@markyscott The article I found was actually the 1980 IB you mentioned. I also have Pilacik's book, but since I only bought it for the page that lists corker cultivars, it's probably towards to bottom of any number of stacks of books and mags; I'll look again tomorrow. If pressed to name a cultivar, I'd call yours Aka Me; based on bark color, needle color/texture/length, the red buds and relative prevalence of the cultivar.

The Taihei descriptions I have are from Dave DeWire, who doesn't claim a bud color, Pilacik, who through Evergreen Gardenworks, describes the buds as white, and the 1980 Okimoto IB article. As I sit and type this, my Taihei's buds are more like my red pines than any black. My KY has white buds. I'll update those threads soon.

Years ago, I started a PDF compilation of all the information I could find on corkers, from various sources (all credited). I could send it to you if you want, but it may not be anything new. Decent photos though.

 

[markyscott]

@markyscott The article I found was actually the 1980 IB you mentioned. I also have Pilacik's book, but since I only bought it for the page that lists corker cultivars, it's probably towards to bottom of any number of stacks of books and mags; I'll look again tomorrow. If pressed to name a cultivar, I'd call yours Aka Me; based on bark color, needle color/texture/length, the red buds and relative prevalence of the cultivar.

The Taihei descriptions I have are from Dave DeWire, who doesn't claim a bud color, Pilacik, who through Evergreen Gardenworks, describes the buds as white, and the 1980 Okimoto IB article. As I sit and type this, my Taihei's buds are more like my red pines than any black. My KY has white buds. I'll update those threads soon.

Years ago, I started a PDF compilation of all the information I could find on corkers, from various sources (all credited). I could send it to you if you want, but it may not be anything new. Decent photos though.

I would love to have that reference. Thank you Brian. I think you have my email address, but let me know if you need it again. Thanks in advance.

Scott

 

[Potawatomi13]

How do you thread graft a pine without pulling all the needles and killing the branch? I'm intrigued

Aaron

Pull thru root end not top. Very young seedling maybe 1 year. Use thin walled large diameter shrink wrap with cut up one side so can wrap around roots. Drill hole in tree big enough to pass roots wrapped in shrink wrap. Push shrink wrap thru hole and wrap bare roots. Pull through hole and re pot roots in small pot and fasten to tree. Secure seedling so it and tree can grow together. Do as many as needed so upper tree can be cut off from lower trunk. May take some time so as not to drill out any trees still growing in. Outside box but just because most have not done does not mean can not be done. The matter is whether tree owner thinks is worth doing? As markyscott mentioned approach grafts could be used instead and easier with difference being angle roots emerge from tree after grafting. Whether is worth doing to owner is big question.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I have a friend who has hundreds of them. Maybe two dozen different cultivars. Most have relatively high grafts. He's now making them with low grafts.

This is grossly obvious but still not acceptable as far as this one is concerned. When good grafts CAN be found why waste time on stock like this. OR waste time doing in first place? Tree CAN be changed but looks bad as is. Being corkbark is no matter. If trunk looks wrong whole tree looks bad! Also if styled young why cannot these conform to normal Bonsai aesthetics?

 

[Adair M]

This is grossly obvious but still not acceptable as far as this one is concerned. When good grafts CAN be found why waste time on stock like this. OR waste time doing in first place? Tree CAN be changed but looks bad as is. Being corkbark is no matter. If trunk looks wrong whole tree looks bad! Also if styled young why cannot these conform to normal Bonsai aesthetics?

He started collecting Corkers just because he was intrigued with all the different varieties. Whenever he encountered a new cultivar, he would buy it and use it as stock to create many trees. He was doing it more to collect different specimens rather than create bonsai.

He now realizes that he should have made low grafts. And he now makes low grafts.

You can train the trees when the wood is young and hasn't started to cork. Once it starts corking, they're very difficult to wire effectively, and the cork pops off very easily. They're also slow growers. So much of their energy goes into making cork bark, little is left for "growing". I have found that you can't decandle them every year. They get too weak. Sometimes the cork makes it look like there's reverse taper because of the way the wings grow.

I mean, if you like them, go for it! Fred Truck has a bunch and loves them! For me, I personally like trees that can be more highly refined. Some people like Corkers because of their weirdness!

Upon reflection, and thinking about it a bit, i find I prefer to work with species that I have better control over. Corkers tend to "do their own thing" and I find that frustrating. Now, that may be just the thing others like about them!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Corkers tend to "do their own thing" and I find that frustrating.

Same. I think my interest in them started in about 2008, and by 2014, I was selling off the least-compliant of the 8 or so cultivars I'd managed to add to the benches. I'm down to 3 now; a very good (almost) shohin cutting that is a keeper, a Taihei that is strong and healthy, but has very challenging branch structure, and a Kyokko Yatsubusa with great bark, but resents training and has been a little weaker over the last 2 years. Hoping it has a good 2017.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Same. I think my interest in them started in about 2008, and by 2014, I was selling off the least-compliant of the 8 or so cultivars I'd managed to add to the benches. I'm down to 3 now; a very good (almost) shohin cutting that is a keeper, a Taihei that is strong and healthy, but has very challenging branch structure, and a Kyokko Yatsubusa with great bark, but resents training and has been a little weaker over the last 2 years. Hoping it has a good 2017.

Is it safe to guess that fertilizing of any sort or using plant stimulants does not help much with their weakness? Is this weakness still so with grafted trees?

 

[Adair M]

Is it safe to guess that fertilizing of any sort or using plant stimulants does not help much with their weakness? Is this weakness still so with grafted trees?

They're heavy feeders. Still weak growers. As I said, they put their energy into producing bark.

 

[markyscott]

...Pilacik's book references "Dwarf Conifers" by Brooklyn Botanical Gardens - I'll have to look for that...

So dissapointing to check references sometimes. Pinus thunbergii isn't even mentioned in the book Pilacik provided as reference to his black pine book.

There ARE some cool plants discussed, including some prostrate forms of Rocky Mountain Juniper and dwarf varieties of Eastern Red Cedar. Japanese Red Pine and White Pine are discussed, but Black Pine is not mentioned at all. No clue what he referenced the book for.

Scott

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

So dissapointing to check references sometimes. Pinus thunbergii isn't even mentioned in the book Pilacik provided as reference to his black pine book.

There ARE some cool plants discussed, including some prostrate forms of Rocky Mountain Juniper and dwarf varieties of Eastern Red Cedar. Japanese Red Pine and White Pine are discussed, but Black Pine is not mentioned at all. No clue what he referenced the book for.

Scott

Funny what you find sometimes when you dig deeper. Similarly how are these Taihei buds considered white:

 

[markyscott]

Funny what you find sometimes when you dig deeper. Similarly how are these Taihei buds considered white:
View attachment 126668

Your bonsai skills are rivaled only by your skills with an air brush, bvf! Very realistic.

S

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@markyscott - thanks for sharing. Nice tree. I too think 'Aka me' is a good candidate. What about 'Gansekkisho Yatsubusa'?. At this stage your bark photo looks similar to my GSSY bark. But bark of all these cork bark JBP changes as it develops. It's not until 15 to 20 years old will you see the stable mature bark pattern.

I've had a love hate relationship with corkers since the 1980's. I'm north of Chicago, near the northern limit for growing JBP. Up here corkers are even more fragile. I've had disaster after another with these. My growing season is too short for them. If I decandle, it has to be early, before needles have fully developed on the spring candles. I only get growth strong enough for decandling maybe two years in five. Up here summer repotting and frost free winter protection seems to be slightly more reliable than spring repotting. My big climate problem is because I am near Lake Michigan, spring tends to be cool to cold and corkers need a week or so of 70's and 80's F (18 to 25 C) to "wake up" in spring. Sometimes I don't get that heat until June. This is probably why summer repotting works better for me.

What about a ground layer? Put a tourniquet of wire just below, but close to the graft. Repot to a deep pot, bury the tourniquet point at least an inch under the media. It may take a few years but you should get roots. A tourniquet to layer is slower, but somewhat more reliable. Just a thought. I have a few corkers that are high trunk grafts, so I know the problem. Some I'll leave as is, some I'll layer.

 

[markyscott]

Lots of back budding this spring. I was hoping for some this year after the winter work - I'd let it grow without decandling last year and fertilized heavily. So it was strong. And with the cutback and pruning in the winter, I was hoping to see some of this:



Those green dots are adventitious buds on 2-3 year old wood. This is really good - with these, we'll be able to chase back the growth and tighten up the branching over the next couple of years.