Maximum Requirements

[sorce]

What does sustainability mean to you?

Are you selfish? Or super selfish?

I chose to use Napa #8822 DE for soil because it is a very sustainable option for me. Very consistent, always available and affordable.

I winter my trees on the ground because the ground will always be there. Even if I knew I could always keep a "proper wintering shelter", which I consider a climate controlled structure, I simply can not guarantee its sustainability, since mother nature controls variables that can affect it and I can't control her.

I choose to not use any pesticides. First because I think it's disgusting, I love bugs and spiders. Finally because it simply isn't sustainable. I don't know when the law will change, as it has for others, disallowing use of a product that I found successful.

I am Super Selfish. I chose to find my way in Bonsai under these stipulations because I want my trees to be able to be cared for forever. Super Selfish because I care about my enjoyment of them, but also that my name lives on in them, for future generations.

This is why I believe selfishness is bad, but super selfishness is good. It's simply the act of caring for others as well as yourself.

John Nash on Governing Dynamics, "Do what's best for yourself and the group." This is the idea behind "super selfishness". I think most of us fall short of doing for the group.

Since I chose these methods, I have been killing trees with spring repotting for 7 years. My climate off this lake also effects this, as we don't get insulating snow regularly, but get damaging winds and temps well, well below freezing.

So to expect me to show you any kind of "minimum requirements" after only half this time is impossible.
Though I can assure you I will have better trees than most in time, because that's how the fuck I roll.
Further, when I die, my trees will be easy to care for, so they can live on forever.

This year I was reassured pesticides are uneccesary as well. Some of you may recall my, "plague level white fly infestation" from a yellowing leaves thread. I nearly made a thread called "this too shall pass" since just a few rainy days later, balance returned before anything was ruined.

Balance.
Do the research.

I look forward to reaping the benefits of my super selfish path in the upcoming years. As since I've been repotting in summer, I have had absolutely no casualties. Spare one squirrel gnawed boxwood.

I also purposefully over pruned the Spruce I put in the Same Miller Pot because I don't just talk about burning shit material, I practice it. I'm quite tired of subpar shit.

Anyway, I'm close to the point where I will purchase one of them wicked Walter Pall trees from Jeff at THG since I know I won't kill it. It took 7 years of this level discipline to get there.

So fuck your minimum requirements and all the shit selfish people talk.

I'll continue to burn aphids, wet rot nursery rootballs, and innovate, in this path I invite all to follow.

Resorce.

Any future argument attempts will be directed here.

Sorce

 

[just.wing.it]

I had those tomato worms all year in my garden....the wasps cover them in parasites.....LOVE it!

I also don't use pesticide....but I do use soap and water....have used Neem, I think Neem is pretty safe.

mother nature controls variables that can affect it and I can't control her.

Amen to that Brother.
Wish more could understand.

I'll continue

in this path I invite all to follow.

I'm all about finding one's own way.
Individualism in techniques should lead to individualism in one's trees.....instead of soulless copies of bonsai trees.

 

[Cable]

Never stop being you, Big S

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

A philosophy I can get behind.


Back as a kid I read a phrase that I didn't understand.
"The theater of life knows no programme."

I apply that to every living organism I own. I think some people forget we're playing with LEGO's instead of a jiggsaw puzzle. Some people even forget we're just playing.

 

[Colorado]

@sorce I share your pesticide philosophy.

What do you do for fungicides? I just can’t bring myself to drench my trees in disgusting chemicals every month/year/whatever. Im just fundamentally opposed to it. I feel like there has to be a better option...

May the Sorce be with you!

 

[sorce]

fungicides

Truthfully. A fish drench.

I have black spot fungus on all the neighboring trees, my ground mulberry, and every now and then my elm will get the thing that makes it have yellowing leaves, but it hasn't been of harm, actually, it's kept my growth compact as required by my "Stradivarius Bonsai" technique anyway, slow slow growth. So no foul.

Never get anything on my trees. Granted, I only have one maple, but this is, "floating like a butterfly", part of the "keep what grows best" technique.

I can make a juniper look like a maple if I wanted.
Model Railroading has trained my eye to see better than what really is, if that makes sense.
But beyond that, I'd rather keep "Snobbish" about my species, which is really just not fucking with bullshit.

Hahaha!

Fish! It's an all around preventative. Just health.

I believe health is a preventative, it works.

Sorce

 

[just.wing.it]

Nature's Bonsai Pesticide is living in my tropicals!


There's a small jumping spider here too already!....cant find him right now...

 

[Crawforde]

I love the LEGO analogy.
And Smurf’s. Uh. spellcheck thinks it’s funny.
Source’s philosophy has some merit. It’s pretty much how I raise plants for ecological restorations. I do break down and give my plants a little soap a couple times a year if the aphids get so crazy the predators aren’t keeping up.

 

[Anthony]

Sorce,

insects and diseases attack unhealthy plants.
It is their job.

Don't stand similar trees next to each other.
Try not to let them touch each other.

Do read Rodale.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[PABonsai]

So, I don't mean to be rude to anyone. In fact I'm trying to pose this more as a question to further my understanding.

In nature, obviously trees don't get any sort of fungicides or insecticides so the nature method is valid in theory. But where I get hung up is, can we necessarily transfer that to bonsai? After all, we don't fertilize or water a ground tree but we must for a bonsai. And many books point out that once we throw these things in a pot they basically depend on us now for every need. So I guess the point is, can we necessarily translate the "don't treat pests" mindset to bonsai successfully long term?

I've got one summer under my belt and no winters, springs or falls. So I don't know the answer here. Have many of you guys had good LONG TERM success without treating?

 

[just.wing.it]

So, I don't mean to be rude to anyone. In fact I'm trying to pose this more as a question to further my understanding.

In nature, obviously trees don't get any sort of fungicides or insecticides so the nature method is valid in theory. But where I get hung up is, can we necessarily transfer that to bonsai? After all, we don't fertilize or water a ground tree but we must for a bonsai. And many books point out that once we throw these things in a pot they basically depend on us now for every need. So I guess the point is, can we necessarily translate the "don't treat pests" mindset to bonsai successfully long term?

I've got one summer under my belt and no winters, springs or falls. So I don't know the answer here. Have many of you guys had good LONG TERM success without treating?

One answer is, grow tough natives.

 

[coh]

So, I don't mean to be rude to anyone. In fact I'm trying to pose this more as a question to further my understanding.

In nature, obviously trees don't get any sort of fungicides or insecticides so the nature method is valid in theory. But where I get hung up is, can we necessarily transfer that to bonsai? After all, we don't fertilize or water a ground tree but we must for a bonsai. And many books point out that once we throw these things in a pot they basically depend on us now for every need. So I guess the point is, can we necessarily translate the "don't treat pests" mindset to bonsai successfully long term?

I've got one summer under my belt and no winters, springs or falls. So I don't know the answer here. Have many of you guys had good LONG TERM success without treating?

My approach is to only treat when necessary, and start with "minimal force".

So if I find an aphid or spider mite infestation, my first attempt is simply to spray with water every day (or multiple times a day) to simply dislodge the pests. I have usually managed control with this technique alone.

Scale is tougher - I don't really want to spend all my time scraping them off trees so if I find a problem I'll use a systemic insecticide, along with oil sprays to smother the crawlers. I've really only had significant scale problems on a few trees and mostly tropicals that spend the winter indoors, away from natural controls.

Fungus is different...we have a lot of stressed/dying pines around here due to a combination of bark beetles, tip blight, needle cast. I have found that if I don't spray my pines regularly with fungicide, they will get these fungal issues. One could argue I should get rid of these species and stick with natives, but I don't want to do that. So I must use chemical controls.

BTW, I don't buy the simplistic "pests only attack sick or weak trees" mindset, though I would agree they are more likely to go after weak plants first.

Overall I've had very few problems with insects or diseases in the 7 or 8 years I've been doing this bonsai thing.

 

[Warpig]

the nature method is valid in theory.

Not trying to call you out, just saying. But the problem i have with the whole "trees in nature" logic is, yes but trees die by the hundreds in nature as well.

 

[LanceMac10]

Harley good, organic sprish sprish from HD bad?

 

[Dav4]

Down here in the hot and humid SE, spider mites and fungal disease will reek havoc with your junipers. 15 years of keeping junipers in MA without ever seeing fungus or mite damage on my trees... less then 18 months in GA and most of my junipers were afflicted and several severely set back by one or the other, or both. Needless to say, if one keeps nice trees in an environment like this, you're going to treat preemptively, which is what I do now.

 

[just.wing.it]

I do use Daconil as a preventative a couple times a year.....forgot bout that.

 

[GSCarlson]

I pick pests off my plants by hand, it’s “quality time” with my pets. I think they appreciate the attention.

 

[Atom#28]

Why is your caterpillar covered in tiny tampons, @sorce?

 

[sparklemotion]

I try to apply Integrated Pest Management principles to my bonsai and other plants. For me, that's meant:

* favoring species that grow better in my environment (tropicals are an obvious exception)

* being thoughtful about which pesticides I use and when. I keep honeybees, and I would much rather have my neighbor spray neem or insecticidal soap at night once a week than apply neonic systemics like Bayer 3-in-1 once a year.

* doing more hand pulling of weeds than reaching for the round up (glyphosate does have its place when dealing with certain invasive species)

* planting to encourage beneficial insects (lots of native perennials), etc...

 

[Adair M]

Down here in the hot and humid SE, spider mites and fungal disease will reek havoc with your junipers. 15 years of keeping junipers in MA without ever seeing fungus or mite damage on my trees... less then 18 months in GA and most of my junipers were afflicted and several severely set back by one or the other, or both. Needless to say, if one keeps nice trees in an environment like this, you're going to treat preemptively, which is what I do now.

Very true! Junipers are not native to our area, there’s a reason! Red cedars, similiar to juniper, are resistant to spider mites and the fungus that attack junipers.

But, if Sorce wants to risk losing his trees to fungus or insects, that’s his prerogative. My trees, however, are too valuable to be left unprotected.

(Hmmm... I wonder if Sorce has his kids vaccinated? Oh, sorry, getting off topic...)

So many things can harm a bonsai. A little preventative treatment can save you from a lot of regret later!